stonecoldstevebernier Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 35 minutes ago, JamesB said: Maybe he did not deserve to be a top 5 pick. I know we are all looking for reasons (excuses) for what is going on. But in both the OHL and at the World Juniors Juolevi has looked good but not great -- the kind of guy you might be happy to pick in the middle of the first round, but not a guy you want at #5. I know that Benning was impressed when he saw Juolevi at the World Juniors last year but it is easier to look good playing behind Puljujarvi and Laine (or Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner in London). Scouts often talk about picking the guys who drive play rather than the guys who are just complementary players. And I know that is hard. But I think the Benning might have made the same mistake with Virtanen and Juolevi (not to mention Eriksson and Gudbranson). These are all guys who look like good players and have done well with the right linemates/D partners. But to build a contender again we are going to need some guys who can drive play. Horvat is in that category. So is Stecher. But the Canuck pipeline is weak on this dimension. In fairness, there was a lot of discussion on here last year about Tkachuk being that same type of player - that he was a beneficiary of the Marner/Dvorak line. I do wonder if JB would've taken Tkachuk if he knew how good Stecher would be, though. Our prospect depth at D is abysmal but on the big club we're pretty set for the near future... Edler-Tanev/Hutton-Stecher/Tryamkin-Gudbranson (or some other combination of those guys). Of course, the flip side is that if Juolevi emerges as hoped, it allows you to flip a Edler/Tanev/Gudbranson for a forward anyway. And the Larsson/Hall trade showed us how much good defensemen can be valued in this league now. Time will tell. I don't if I want JB at the helm making those decisions though (or perhaps more accurately, the Aquilinis meddling in JB's decisions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post logic Posted December 28, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2016 43 minutes ago, JamesB said: Maybe he did not deserve to be a top 5 pick. I know we are all looking for reasons (excuses) for what is going on. But in both the OHL and at the World Juniors Juolevi has looked good but not great -- the kind of guy you might be happy to pick in the middle of the first round, but not a guy you want at #5. I know that Benning was impressed when he saw Juolevi at the World Juniors last year but it is easier to look good playing behind Puljujarvi and Laine (or Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner in London). Scouts often talk about picking the guys who drive play rather than the guys who are just complementary players. And I know that is hard. But I think the Benning might have made the same mistake with Virtanen and Juolevi (not to mention Eriksson and Gudbranson). These are all guys who look like good players and have done well with the right linemates/D partners. But to build a contender again we are going to need some guys who can drive play. Horvat is in that category. So is Stecher. But the Canuck pipeline is weak on this dimension. The dude has 21 points in 26 games as a D man in junior what more do you want lmao 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Exactly. We need elite prospects, who drive play, and Juiolevi looks like a nice player, but that's all. Who would you have taken then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 hour ago, JamesB said: Maybe he did not deserve to be a top 5 pick. I know we are all looking for reasons (excuses) for what is going on. But in both the OHL and at the World Juniors Juolevi has looked good but not great -- the kind of guy you might be happy to pick in the middle of the first round, but not a guy you want at #5. I know that Benning was impressed when he saw Juolevi at the World Juniors last year but it is easier to look good playing behind Puljujarvi and Laine (or Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner in London). Scouts often talk about picking the guys who drive play rather than the guys who are just complementary players. And I know that is hard. But I think the Benning might have made the same mistake with Virtanen and Juolevi (not to mention Eriksson and Gudbranson). These are all guys who look like good players and have done well with the right linemates/D partners. But to build a contender again we are going to need some guys who can drive play. Horvat is in that category. So is Stecher. But the Canuck pipeline is weak on this dimension. I think people have too high of expectations for a 5th overall pick, i think a lot of people are expecting a elite D like Doughty, Keith Karlsson types. Most 5th overall don't become elite play drivers. Just look between 2000 -2013 Elias Lindholm Morgan Rielly Ryan Strome Nino Niederreiter Brayden Schenn Luke Schenn Karl Alzner Phil Kessel Carey Price Blake Wheeler Thomas Vanek Ryan Whitney Stanislav Chistov Raffi Torres If Juolevi becomes a top pairing D that can play an all around D game we should be happy with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Don't see why we are hyper vigilant about Juolevi. From all accounts the Finnish coach is in way over his head. Seem to remember that Horvat had a poor WJC as well. He is our pick and only time will tell if he works out. This board has a really bad habit of hanging on a teenagers every move and if there is any bump in the road, it's all doom and gloom. Finland is missing a huge amount of talent. With the way that pool party had been playing, Edmonton could have sent him. Dont see the poor performance of Finland being OJ's fault. OJ is having a great OHL season. The game he plays does require his teammates to possess skills. Very few defencemen drive the play. They transition, counter, but rarely skate end to end and score. OJ is not Orr and is not a player that can do it all himself. He is a key peice to that we need. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Does PL Dubois look dominanat? Shouldn't a 3rd OA pick? He looks like a depth player. Fact is, this is a tournament for 19 and 20 year olds mostly. Development between 17 and 20 is phenomenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Herberts Vasiljevs Posted December 28, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2016 Everyone panic!! Rabble rabble rabble. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missioncanucksfan Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 hours ago, Warhippy said: I'd be perfectly fine with us doing this over the next 2 drafts. Drafting the BPA D in the top 10 of the next 2 drafts allows us to do nothing but draft high risk high reward offense for the next 2 to 4 years. Guys that either flame out or end up as superstars. From the net. Out Juolevi 2016 Liljegren/Hague/Foote 2017 Dahlin/Addison/Bokvist 2018 Not just that.... Columbus isn't just doing it with strong young D. They have wingers full of pi $$ n vinegar that muck in the corners, all love to take the puck to the net and can rip the puck, aren't hanging out in the perimeter and will punch you in the face when you cheap shot them. On top of that....they have a coach that has the balls to call out ANY player that slacks off and doesn't pull up his socks as exemplified by Torts calling out Saad. WD can only bench Baertschi coz he doesn't have the stones to bench Sutter or 6 million dollar Eriksson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 41 minutes ago, ReggieBush said: Who would you have taken then? I wanted Tkatchuk, and would have taken him at five. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHockeyNerds Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Everyone calm down lol, if you knew anything about hockey you would know the Finnish team is not going to be that great. Also, if you knew anything about hockey, OJ in not a superstar who can change the fortunes of a team itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 46 minutes ago, Alflives said: I wanted Tkatchuk, and would have taken him at five. I would have taken Sergachyov at 5 instead of Tkachuk or Juolevi. His Russian team just put up 9 goals today and he had zero points. So I guess that makes him a bad pick for Montreal? Juolevi will be just fine. He will be more a Hamhuis type defenseman. While I see Sergachyov as a more offensive type D man. Despite his stat sheet today. Tkachuk would have been a great pick too! Clayton Keller as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 3 hours ago, JamesB said: Maybe he did not deserve to be a top 5 pick. I know we are all looking for reasons (excuses) for what is going on. But in both the OHL and at the World Juniors Juolevi has looked good but not great -- the kind of guy you might be happy to pick in the middle of the first round, but not a guy you want at #5. I know that Benning was impressed when he saw Juolevi at the World Juniors last year but it is easier to look good playing behind Puljujarvi and Laine (or Tkachuk, Dvorak, and Marner in London). Scouts often talk about picking the guys who drive play rather than the guys who are just complementary players. And I know that is hard. But I think the Benning might have made the same mistake with Virtanen and Juolevi (not to mention Eriksson and Gudbranson). These are all guys who look like good players and have done well with the right linemates/D partners. But to build a contender again we are going to need some guys who can drive play. Horvat is in that category. So is Stecher. But the Canuck pipeline is weak on this dimension. well...I have to be honest and say I wasn't impressed with the pick ..so you feel that some of these other Finnish D have overtaken Juolevi..to the tune where he gets the least ice time..doesn't say much. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggieBush Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 2 hours ago, Alflives said: I wanted Tkatchuk, and would have taken him at five. Tkachuk is was not, is not, and will never be elite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) I love Juolevi's swagger. he didn't seem too impressed with his team in the first. you could see it in his face. he looked a little irritated his teammates were celebrating so hard on the last goal. he looked like he was looking at 5 yr Olds lol. all focused on their own goal. not focusing on collecting yourself for the next important shift. Maybe I'm reading into it wrong but that was my take. Edited December 28, 2016 by Rush17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: You seem to know a lot about hockey. It's pretty reasonable to be concerned about Olli's ice time, not only in this tournament so far but also back in London. With that draft pedigree, you would think he was a top guy that any team he plays for would want on the ice as much as humanly possible but I guess not. Finland's coach is clearly a meathead if they are losing to Denmark, this is NOT Olli's fault, he is clearly one of the top players, on and off the ice to be named captain at 18 Is 21 points, +17 in 26 games in London not good enough for you guys? What does he have to do down there to prove hes good lmao. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
logic Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 1 minute ago, The 5th Line said: Who said he wasn't good? We are simply discussing the fact that he has been getting less ice time than we expected and it's disappointing not seeing him be one of the "go to guys" at the end of a game. Like I said, pretty reasonable considering he was a 5th overall pick. Let's please not start throwing Junior coaches under the bus this time around.. Finland's own fans are throwing him under the bus and don't like him, so I think its fair to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 6 hours ago, logic said: The dude has 21 points in 26 games as a D man in junior what more do you want lmao This while playing on a team without marner/tkachuk/Dvorak (whom most attributed his great stats to last season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 33 minutes ago, coryberg said: This while playing on a team without marner/tkachuk/Dvorak (whom most attributed his great stats to last season). Juolevi is the bomb :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaSwede Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Juolevi post game comments (*double translated*, Finish->Swedish->English) Quote After the upset against Denmark, captain Olli Juolevi was close to tears. "You get influenced after such a tough start. I don't know... I have never been this angry before. This sucks." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 5 hours ago, ReggieBush said: Tkachuk is was not, is not, and will never be elite Based on...? 9 points in his last 10 games as an 18 year-old? The kid looks VERY impressive so far, and is likely only going to get better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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