Canucks have absolutely no star power!!!

[Crabcakes]

On 7/22/2017 at 6:31 PM, terrible.dee said:

Unfortunately, there's a lot of truth to this.

 

The need for star power is why you don't take Virtanen at #6, Joulevi at #5 or Petterrson at #5 (You can still take him but trade down and get an addition "Star Power" lottery ticket)is your shot at a cup, you HAVE to get stars, and this is where you gamble to get them....yes, it's gambling, but you can give yourself the best chance possible, maximize you odds so to speak. That is what makes Benning so frustrating (Not the only thing), he seems to want to prove he can pick out talent that no one else can, so he refuses to make the obvious picks, but he also isn't clever enough to broker with the leagues GM's (Vegas nixed a deal because he telegraphed the Petterrson pick, they knew they didn't have to, Columbus jumped up and stole his lunch money because he hadn't done his due diligence and wasn't prepared) McCann was a terrible pick as his reputation was already well-known by the time he was drafted, and Tryamkin was some of the laziest drafting I've ever seen "He's big! Take him....wha..what do you mean he doesn't want to play in the NHL.....he's big PICK HIM!" Boesser and Gaudette look good, but I worry about drafting these American college players, eventually, they are going to want to play in the east, it sucks being in the west with the long flights and time change if that's where your family and friends are, real estate is expensive, the demographic is becoming predominantly Oriental, the city is isolated...I don't know, I think back to Suter and Parise, and then think about why eastern American's would want to stay here....the Sea wall?

Just seems like a slow burn bomb that could go off on us in a few years.

You didn't see Pettersson at Prospects Camp?  There are plenty of video's on youtube.  If you want to call it a gamble this guy has some serious skill.  For the same reason Nylander fell to the Leafs, Pettersson fell to the Canucks.  He weighed in a 165 and that makes GM's nervous.  If he was 20 lbs heavier, he would have been top 3 or higher.  Incidentally, Pettersson has much better numbers from Sweden than Nylander did.

 

Let's look at McKenzies rankings (only because it's a consensus or average ranking and not an outlier by an individual)

 

Virtanen, rated 7, picked 6

Boeser, rated 26, picked 23

Juolevi, rated 6, picked 5

Pettersson, rated 7, picked 5

 

In no way are any of these picks out of line.  Benning obviously does his own ranking as does every GM so it's expected to be different but none of them are much different.

 

I think that players who have committed to college tend to fall a bit in the draft because of the added uncertainty but especially in recent years, they get great coaching and better training and more practice time than players who take the junior route.  I wouldn't worry about the occasional player who goes renegade.  That player would have poor character anyways.

 

Your comments about demographics in Vancouver makes you sound like you've read some magazine articles and haven't actually been here.  Every city has it's problems.  The Toronto real estate market is a mess too.  I wouldn't call LA or New York cheap places to live either.  It's really a red herring.  Flying anywhere in NA is not a big deal to most NHL players.  There is no accounting for the occasional homesick player.  I can see Ryan Miller not wanting to miss his young son growing up

[Crabcakes]

20 minutes ago, JaboVancouver said:

Agreed. Competition breeds success. If you continue to set up your team to fail and keep playing for "next year's draft" there is no push for your prospects already in your system to get better. Then you turn into Colorado, who will be trading some of their young players whose growth into stars has slowed, and will be restarting their rebuild all over again. Competition allows players to exceed their ceilings, and maybe you get a star out of a player who projected to only be a third or fourth line player. This is the kind of culture you want to build. It may not pay off next year but if Benning continues to draft well, the pool of competition grows larger, and you begin to build stars out of players rather than tanking in the hopes of maybe getting a generational player. I like the plan that Benning and Linden have in place. In 5 years if the Hockey News has the same story the Canucks will not be at the bottom with no star players.

 

Solid golf analogy BTW. I think that may be a first for CDC.

Thanks, I wrote the post while watching the Open.  I've become a big Koooooch fan.  

 

 

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

Rosey coloured glassess.  I enjoy saying that when the shoe fits the foot.  Is that another analogy that is lazy?  I must be working for the Canucks. What the hell is going on anyways.  All I was expressing is Horvat hasn't produced like a true star yet.  That is all.  I have also made many posts on this thread suggesting that I'm a believer and to sign him already at seven years six million per.  Or cut him a bridge deal. Why the lock as a handle anyways?  It comes across as someone looking for anything that is inflammatory and "protecting " us poor and intellectually disabled users.   Your posts seem to put some truth to that statement.  Your not actually adding substance to the sight, just looking to troll just below the obvious troll line.  Again Rosey Coloured Glasses.  Does that make your mad?  I hope so.  I plussed you earlier thinking why not maybe you would let this go, obviously your intentions have nothing to do with Canucks but more to do with trashing things.  I bet if you were old enough to remember 2011 you would have been preparing your riot game before game seven.  How's that for overt trolling?  Or is it too lazy for you and I should up my game?   Seriously ripping on me for something so benign makes me wonder what you really feel for something that's actually controversial.

I don't really understand how you're offended by this, but I didn't mean to offend anyway. Sorry if I did.

 

And no, I have not been mad at all this entire time. I just want to have good discussions and I get tired of the whole "oh this person has rose-coloured glasses remark" as if it's even going to provide an argument against that person. I want to have discussions where people come up with good arguments for both sides. This is why I think "rose-coloured glasses" is being lazy. I mean, look the post that I replied to. All he did was what I consider to be kicking and screaming about it. I tried to find a good response in it, but I didn't.

 

I'm not going to retract by what I said as I stand by it. I'm not trolling. I'm stating my opinion on the subject. Nothing more. Nothing less. I just want to have good discussions without this whole stereotyping people into silly categories with people thinking they somehow made some sort of argument as a result.

[kingofsurrey]

6 hours ago, gurn said:

did you miss the part about "maybe". I see you didn't mention Rodin was injured and only played 3 games, and Dahlen wasn't even in North America, iirc Goldobin played less than 15 games.

maybe, maybe and maybe.

Rodin , Dahlen and Goldobin  are simple not NHL top 6 forwards.  They have not earned that respect yet.

AT this point all 3 are long shot prospects.   Best case scenario is one of them makes it but that is probably a long shot.

 

Making it in the top hockey league in the world as a top 6 forward is no easy task.  Massive respect to those that make it.

 

These 3 are still long shots at this point.   All 3 should probably first try to make it on the turd line.  

 

Remember Alex Burrows.  Burrows told management he would play the role of any line to make the club...  

He did it and worked his way up the lines.   That is what these 3 NEED to do .   ARE THEY UP TO IT ?  How BAD do they want it ?  Burrows heart ?  Not so sure still at this point ......

 

Life is hard in downtown Surrey...  Nothing is easy.  Lets see how bad these 3 players want it.  Are they willing to start / contribute  / find a role on the 3rd or 4th line...

 

Nothing should be given on our club. Everything needs to be earned. Sorry Gurn. 

[Rob_Zepp]

1 hour ago, Crabcakes said:

You didn't see Pettersson at Prospects Camp?  There are plenty of video's on youtube.  If you want to call it a gamble this guy has some serious skill.  For the same reason Nylander fell to the Leafs, Pettersson fell to the Canucks.  He weighed in a 165 and that makes GM's nervous.  If he was 20 lbs heavier, he would have been top 3 or higher.  Incidentally, Pettersson has much better numbers from Sweden than Nylander did.

 

Let's look at McKenzies rankings (only because it's a consensus or average ranking and not an outlier by an individual)

 

Virtanen, rated 7, picked 6

Boeser, rated 26, picked 23

Juolevi, rated 6, picked 5

Pettersson, rated 7, picked 5

 

In no way are any of these picks out of line.  Benning obviously does his own ranking as does every GM so it's expected to be different but none of them are much different.

 

I think that players who have committed to college tend to fall a bit in the draft because of the added uncertainty but especially in recent years, they get great coaching and better training and more practice time than players who take the junior route.  I wouldn't worry about the occasional player who goes renegade.  That player would have poor character anyways.

 

Your comments about demographics in Vancouver makes you sound like you've read some magazine articles and haven't actually been here.  Every city has it's problems.  The Toronto real estate market is a mess too.  I wouldn't call LA or New York cheap places to live either.  It's really a red herring.  Flying anywhere in NA is not a big deal to most NHL players.  There is no accounting for the occasional homesick player.  I can see Ryan Miller not wanting to miss his young son growing up

I am not sure logic will work but great post!   

[Gurn]

never mind

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, The Lock said:

I don't really understand how you're offended by this, but I didn't mean to offend anyway. Sorry if I did.

 

And no, I have not been mad at all this entire time. I just want to have good discussions and I get tired of the whole "oh this person has rose-coloured glasses remark" as if it's even going to provide an argument against that person. I want to have discussions where people come up with good arguments for both sides. This is why I think "rose-coloured glasses" is being lazy. I mean, look the post that I replied to. All he did was what I consider to be kicking and screaming about it. I tried to find a good response in it, but I didn't.

 

I'm not going to retract by what I said as I stand by it. I'm not trolling. I'm stating my opinion on the subject. Nothing more. Nothing less. I just want to have good discussions without this whole stereotyping people into silly categories with people thinking they somehow made some sort of argument as a result.

Well you did a great job in stereotyping yourself into a Troll category by calling me lazy and unintelligent, and contradicting yourself considering it was a large post with a lot of information backing up my position ( of course you just quoted one paragraph...like hey, a troll would).

 

 Then when others come in to protect me your defensive despite the logical position on a non-troll which is a simple apology and rephrasing or even edit before the entire CDC notices, instead you  go on arguing with them and add some more troll statements.  

 

Edit. ( Removed some not nice stuff, I looked you up and realize maybe your not so bad after all).

 

I will bury the hatchet, let's keep this to hockey.  Please refrain from calling me stupid and lazy, and I will refrain from using that analogy again given its obvious it's also causing an emotional reaction.  Your reputation is good enough for me to pass the olive branch, but I won't be so nice if there is a next time.

[NexusRift]

So it seems the definition of "star power" in CDC requires that said "star power" players must still be offensive  powerhouses that produce offense out the ying yang.............hmmmmmmmmmm.................... 

 

Seems that in most every mash up at the beginning of most broadcasts on national TV include the Sedins in some way, shape, or form. It's unfortunate that they, nor any other Canuck, aren't hoisting the SC as Crosby or Toews are in those mash ups,b ut nonetheless, the Sedins are included along with those other stars.

 

So........if a star actor or actress decides to quit doing blockbuster movies and only does TV shows, does that diminish their "star power" ?  I think not.

To us here in CDC, we're more in tune with our team than the knobs our east. That is to say, we're more critical. We're fans. We're passionate. 

 

To me, the Sedin twins are our star power. In this decade, they're the most recognizable faces of our team. Yes. Bo is getting up there and he was the only representative for us at  NHL's All Star weekend last year. The beginnings of, what is sure to be more bright spots for us!

[Zhukini]

The fact is that when I look at the schedule there are games that I absolutely do not want to attend, ex the Coyotes.

 

The Canucks are that for a lot of markets now 

[Rob_Zepp]

2 hours ago, Zhukini said:

The fact is that when I look at the schedule there are games that I absolutely do not want to attend, ex the Coyotes.

 

The Canucks are that for a lot of markets now 

Interesting comment and very true in that Vancouver was 28th lowest drawing road team last year after about 10 years (prior to a couple of seasons ago) in the perennial top five.    Chicago, Philly, Detroit, Rangers and Pens were top five road drawing teams last season.   There is a bit of regional bias as not all rinks are created equal in terms of attendance but it more or less works out with the more balanced schedule now.

 

[The Lock]

10 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well you did a great job in stereotyping yourself into a Troll category by calling me lazy and unintelligent, and contradicting yourself considering it was a large post with a lot of information backing up my position ( of course you just quoted one paragraph...like hey, a troll would).

 

 Then when others come in to protect me your defensive despite the logical position on a non-troll which is a simple apology and rephrasing or even edit before the entire CDC notices, instead you  go on arguing with them and add some more troll statements.  

 

Edit. ( Removed some not nice stuff, I looked you up and realize maybe your not so bad after all).

 

I will bury the hatchet, let's keep this to hockey.  Please refrain from calling me stupid and lazy, and I will refrain from using that analogy again given its obvious it's also causing an emotional reaction.  Your reputation is good enough for me to pass the olive branch, but I won't be so nice if there is a next time.

For the record, I never called you stupid and I only referred to the comment as being lazy. In fact, I want you to look at our conversation and tell me when I have actually called you stupid. I haven't. I have not intentionally directed anything towards you. I talked about your comment, but not you. That's what gets me confused about this as I avoid calling people stupid in general. I don't consider anyone stupid.

 

Then I got attacked from the other person, who called me stupid and threw names at me, who I know despises me anyway as we don't usually agree eye to eye.

 

I agree that it's a good idea to just bury the hatchet, but please know that in no way do I feel I was trolling and I think you perhaps overreacted a bit? It's all in the eye of the beholder in the end though. I think your perception of the conversation ended up being very different from my perception.

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, The Lock said:

For the record, I never called you stupid and I only referred to the comment as being lazy. In fact, I want you to look at our conversation and tell me when I have actually called you stupid. I haven't. I have not intentionally directed anything towards you. I talked about your comment, but not you. That's what gets me confused about this as I avoid calling people stupid in general. I don't consider anyone stupid.

 

Then I got attacked from the other person, who called me stupid and threw names at me, who I know despises me anyway as we don't usually agree eye to eye.

 

I agree that it's a good idea to just bury the hatchet, but please know that in no way do I feel I was trolling and I think you perhaps overreacted a bit? It's all in the eye of the beholder in the end though. I think your perception of the conversation ended up being very different from my perception.

It's ok, I did overreact and I dont hold a grudge.  Look forward to some hockey talk in the future.  How bought this Horvat five years five million?

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's ok, I did overreact and I dont hold a grudge.  Look forward to some hockey talk in the future.  How bought this Horvat five years five million?

I think it would be a good deal overall. 5mil does seem like a good ballpark figure to me given what he's already done and where he could end up. It could be like Kesler's contract basically from a few years back.

 

Honestly, I'd be fine if it was even at 6mil, but that's mostly because I think he's a player that we need to lock up with the high likelihood that he could become a future star for us. I'd be surprised if it was as high as 6mil, but I wouldn't be complaining either.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, The Lock said:

For the record, I never called you stupid and I only referred to the comment as being lazy. In fact, I want you to look at our conversation and tell me when I have actually called you stupid. I haven't. I have not intentionally directed anything towards you. I talked about your comment, but not you. That's what gets me confused about this as I avoid calling people stupid in general. I don't consider anyone stupid.

 

Then I got attacked from the other person, who called me stupid and threw names at me, who I know despises me anyway as we don't usually agree eye to eye.

 

I agree that it's a good idea to just bury the hatchet, but please know that in no way do I feel I was trolling and I think you perhaps overreacted a bit? It's all in the eye of the beholder in the end though. I think your perception of the conversation ended up being very different from my perception.

It's ok, I did overreact and I dont hold a grudge.  Look forward to some hockey talk in the future.  How bought this Horvat five years five million?

[Davathor]

On 2017-07-24 at 5:03 PM, The Lock said:

I think it would be a good deal overall. 5mil does seem like a good ballpark figure to me given what he's already done and where he could end up. It could be like Kesler's contract basically from a few years back.

 

Honestly, I'd be fine if it was even at 6mil, but that's mostly because I think he's a player that we need to lock up with the high likelihood that he could become a future star for us. I'd be surprised if it was as high as 6mil, but I wouldn't be complaining either.

 

You're just looking at it through rose coloured glasses

[The Lock]

13 hours ago, Davathor said:

 

You're just looking at it through rose coloured glasses

[GoBoGo53]

On 7/23/2017 at 11:09 PM, Crabcakes said:

You didn't see Pettersson at Prospects Camp?  There are plenty of video's on youtube.  If you want to call it a gamble this guy has some serious skill.  For the same reason Nylander fell to the Leafs, Pettersson fell to the Canucks.  He weighed in a 165 and that makes GM's nervous.  If he was 20 lbs heavier, he would have been top 3 or higher.  Incidentally, Pettersson has much better numbers from Sweden than Nylander did.

 

Let's look at McKenzies rankings (only because it's a consensus or average ranking and not an outlier by an individual)

 

Virtanen, rated 7, picked 6

Boeser, rated 26, picked 23

Juolevi, rated 6, picked 5

Pettersson, rated 7, picked 5

 

In no way are any of these picks out of line.  Benning obviously does his own ranking as does every GM so it's expected to be different but none of them are much different.

 

I think that players who have committed to college tend to fall a bit in the draft because of the added uncertainty but especially in recent years, they get great coaching and better training and more practice time than players who take the junior route.  I wouldn't worry about the occasional player who goes renegade.  That player would have poor character anyways.

 

Your comments about demographics in Vancouver makes you sound like you've read some magazine articles and haven't actually been here.  Every city has it's problems.  The Toronto real estate market is a mess too.  I wouldn't call LA or New York cheap places to live either.  It's really a red herring.  Flying anywhere in NA is not a big deal to most NHL players.  There is no accounting for the occasional homesick player.  I can see Ryan Miller not wanting to miss his young son growing up

Can you point me to where this is true? 

 

If you go back to even their draft-1 and compare:

2012/2013

Nylander:

Södertälje SK J20 (SuperElit) 43 pts in 27 games

Södertälje SK (Allsvenskan) 6pts in 8 games

Petterson

Timrå IK J20 (SuperElit) 14 pts in 22 games

Timrå IK (Allsvenskan) 9pts in 25 games

 

Those are from eliteprospects.com. Nylander played in the SHL as well as the Allsvenskan in his draft year, Pettersson only played tier 2 Swedish hockey.  If you are talking about their draft year Allsvenskan production, their PPG paces are similar, and Nylander played on a terrible Rogle team (0.78 vs 0.95). I think because you are really underrating Nylander's production in the SHL, where he got 7 points in 22 games on a bad Modo team. That is incredible production for a draft eligible 17/18 year old against men. I agree that Pettersson has top 3 talent I just think you are selling Nylander short by quite a bit. "Much better" isn't accurate, I don't even think "Better" would be accurate when you look at the full picture.

Nylander really become a star in the following season, draft+1. 20 points in 21 games is elite SHL production, almost unheard of. I believe he would have broken the Sedin's production record for u19 SHL production. I think it would be a stretch to say Pettersson can do the same. Let's see how he does in the SHL next season, which will be the first time he will face top tier competition against men in his life.

[TimberWolf]

Wouldn't tinting your glasses rose give you a headache after a while? 

[iceman64]

Is this for real all over again???  people reallyyyyyyyyyyyy need to stop listening to so called media experts who think they have a clue on what's going on all the time but most of them don't it's simply regurgating with a tiny lil added spin of opinion which as best has nothing to do with what can happen.  Take instance of when new jersey won it, they won it with tenacious non-stop hard fore checking and back checking as everyone bought into a super fast trap style, as in getting into position to score of pressured mistakes, a lot of pure scorers have their share of mistakes when pressured in the d-zone hard.

 

Thing is most pure skilled guys focused on scoring and not the technique of defending when they were younger so us having a whole team of hard working tenacious fairly well skilled players can work for us too but it all comes down to how well TG can coach all that into vets as well as young or more like IF!  However we used to have that a bit in the past but lacked size to pull it off when teams like the bruins blackhawks etc pushed back dirty...  zero answer for that... so zero cup...  this team still doesn't have much push back unless JB pulls off the balance.

 

Oh and for proof of what i said, this is a media quote... 

 

"But it’s not just Markstrom’s lack of starting experience that’s cause for concern. He owns a career .902 save percentage and 2.91 goals against average. His career 36-53-12 record is also far from inspiring"

 

Ok so my response to that b.s. is.. well hello f'n genious, what defence did we have all season?  or even before that?

 

See what i mean?   just because some twit with a title says something it doesn't mean he knows exactly what he's talking about. despite all that, i saw markstrom pull off some amazing saves and getting better all the time. 

 

Hardly wait to see us win more shoot out games with Gagner around

 

 

[lmm]

Why has this thread not been merged with the "Canucks need a new Identity" thread?

The canucks new identity IS "No Star Power", "NO Muscle", " Euro Soft"

Actually the last 2 are  not new at all. So, "No star power" is now added to the old identity