Benning Mentality

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, JamesB said:

 

I don't often agree with oldnews, but I have a similar question here.

 

Aquilini did a mea culpa on the hiring of Torts while Mike Gillis was GM, basically taking responsibility for that decision and correcting it with an expensive buyout. 

 

However, since Linden was hired I am not aware of any credible reports that Aquilini has "meddled". I have seen claims that Aquilini was the driving force behind drafting Virtanen (local interest), that he wants to sign Evander Kane (local interest, and has not happened), that he pressured Benning into pursuing a "win now" instead of a rebuild strategy for the first three years, and one or two other things.

 

But I have seen nothing that seems like genuine evidence of any of these claims. If anyone is aware of any convincing or even suggestive evidence (instead of just supposition) I would be very interested to see it.

 

Aquilini takes a fair amount of criticism on CDC and does not get a lot of support. Personally I think he has been an excellent owner. Not only does he spend to the cap (within approximation error) every year, but he spends a lot on non-cap expenses, including paying for a lot of guys in Utica on NHL salaries instead of AHL salaries. I have not been able to find AHL payrolls for this year, but Utica must be close to the highest. The Canucks (i.e. Aquilini) are also known to be generous on lots of other dimensions as well.

I have never heard him criticize a player publicly or put public pressure on management. And, considering that the Canucks had arguably the worst two-season performance in the NHL in the last two seasons despite being a cap team, he has been extremely supportive and patient.

 

Yes, I know he has a lot of money, but compared with other owners he looks pretty good to me.

It's mutual, for sure.

Maybe if your ilk flatters ownership enough, you may be able to cozy up - Rowe et al style - and fix this franchise like the analyticz geniuses and their Canucksmarmy sidekick imports did the Florida Panthers.

 

Your post suggests that he's been overly patient with Benning - I don't think you want to realize what Benning has accomplished - it embarrasses the self-styled /aggrandized 'analyticz community' that have failed so hard in their arrogant and incessant attempts to belittle his intellect.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

3 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

This is the best management we've had in a long time and the best set of kids ever.

Just to point out...  This board claimed that Cassels/Subban/Shinkaruk/Gaunce was the best set of kids we ever had too.  Same with Hodgson/Schroeder/Sauve/Rodin/Connauton.  Same with Grabner/Shirokov/Bourdon.  Etc...

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Just to point out...  This board claimed that Cassels/Subban/Shinkaruk/Gaunce was the best set of kids we ever had too.  Same with Hodgson/Schroeder/Sauve/Rodin/Connauton.  Same with Grabner/Shirokov/Bourdon.  Etc...

Don't include Bourdon, that was a tragedy, and it set the team back in it's defensive prospects. 

[MrCanuck94]

3 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Just to point out...  This board claimed that Cassels/Subban/Shinkaruk/Gaunce was the best set of kids we ever had too.  Same with Hodgson/Schroeder/Sauve/Rodin/Connauton.  Same with Grabner/Shirokov/Bourdon.  Etc...

Because we always hoped for the best case scenario with every prospect while looking at potential and what they could be. We've never had the caliber of prospects that we've had since the 2013 draft, period. We're not just hoping for the best case scenario's, our prospects are performing to that standard. Our group of kids that we have right now are on another level, led by Elias Pettersson.

[bloodycanuckleheads]

1 minute ago, MrCanuck94 said:

We've never had the caliber of prospects that we've had since the 2013 draft, period.

Ha!  Ludicrous!

 

Let's see...  About 12 years ago, we had Schneider, Kesler, Edler and Hansen.  Five years before that, we had the Sedins, Ruutu and Allen.  Ten years before that we had Bure, Linden, Nedved, Slegr and Gino.

 

But, those don't even come close to our actual top-crop of youngsters (~1980):  Smyl, Vaive, Sundstrom, Lidster, Derlago, Fraser, Ashton, Graham.  That's nearly 5,000 points combined!  Do you seriously think we'll get 5,000 career points from our current crop of youngsters?  Anywhere even remotely close to that?

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Ha!  Ludicrous!

 

Let's see...  About 12 years ago, we had Schneider, Kesler, Edler and Hansen.  Five years before that, we had the Sedins, Ruutu and Allen.  Ten years before that we had Bure, Linden, Nedved, Slegr and Gino.

 

But, those don't even come close to our actual top-crop of youngsters (~1980):  Smyl, Vaive, Sundstrom, Lidster, Derlago, Fraser, Ashton, Graham.  That's nearly 5,000 points combined!  Do you seriously think we'll get 5,000 career points from our current crop of youngsters?  Anywhere even remotely close to that?

Horvat, Baertschi, Boeser, Jake, Lind, Juolevi, Gadjovich, Petterson.  Same quantity, eight? I submit this group, but really at least one or two will be superseded.

 

I love your post by the way.  Great perspective!

 

But yes  There is scope to suggest this new group of eight has the potential to average just over 600 a head? Juolevi & Virtanen might be challenged to come close.  Horvat will hit it IMO.  Baer has a real crack.  If they stay healthy, Boeser and Petterson have the upside to obliterate 600 career points.

 

No guarantee?  But they are a chance!

 

I don't think anyone said that about Edler, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa & Hansen?  Yet added to the twins, they almost got us a cup.

 

Exciting times!

[bloodycanuckleheads]

8 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Horvat, Baertschi, Boeser, Jake, Lind, Juolevi, Gadjovich, Petterson.  Same quantity, eight? I submit this group, but really at least one or two will be superseded.

That's 7 drafts worth of players (2011-2017)!  My 1980 list was players we had drafted over a period of 1 year, 361 days.  So, you'll have to scratch Horvat, Baertschi and Jake from your list if you want to compare. 

[bertuzzi44fan]

19 minutes ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

That's 7 drafts worth of players (2011-2017)!  My 1980 list was players we had drafted over a period of 1 year, 361 days.  So, you'll have to scratch Horvat, Baertschi and Jake from your list if you want to compare. 

Goalies before 2000 were potatoes in net,so I don't put much stock in them keeping goals out.Their Dmen basically were thugs on skates back then and kept the numbers lower.Anyways,we didn't draft Baertschi for sure,he's Calgarys guy.

[TheGuardian_]

19 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

This is the best organization set up in years, from the President down.  Aquillini has already said he is confident in the job JB is doing.  

 

the idea that JB would trade away picks to save his job seems pretty ridiculous to me

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

[spook007]

12 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

Hahahaha...

No fans will be entirely satisfied unless the team is challenging and winning games, and if challenging no fans will be entirely happy unless winning...

The difference is proper fans accept its a process...

[thrago]

I heard them talking on the radio about how it's possible that Benning doesn't get signed and what he sneeds to do to convince the owners to resign him. If the Owners aren't convinced already that they need to Re-sign Benning they don't deserve him. Maybe I'm out to lunch but I see no scenario he isn't re-signed.

[TheGuardian_]

20 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said:

I still don't get how some fans and media members still think our management is inadequate.

 

I think it was yesterday, Tony Gallagher was saying that this is a poor management and calling the team a "hot steaming pile of poo" and how it's sad that a team with a 40 goal scorer isn't able to do better (guessing he thinks a rebuild is done with one player?) and that the team is going nowhere. Also, he talked about how the treatment of Rodin will affect players wanting to sign here because Rodin is gonna tell everyone about his experience and no player will want to come here... laughable lmao

 

This is the best management we've had in a long time and the best set of kids ever.

Is this just trolling or do you really believe this?

This is the worst the team has ever done.

This management group has had the best drafting positions year after year with the most players NOT making the team.

TG's reference to a 40 goal scorer has to be looked at as a team improvement, what he was saying was even with Boeser the team is still one of the lowest scoring teams, what if they didn't have him? Did they count on him to score 40 goals or Dorsett's production?

 

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Hahahaha...

No fans will be entirely satisfied unless the team is challenging and winning games, and if challenging no fans will be entirely happy unless winning...

The difference is proper fans accept its a process...

Is that not the purpose of playing the game? Winning? They aren't out there to get a participation ribbon. The ultimate goal of the season is to be the last team to get a win isn't it?

[MrCanuck94]

29 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Is this just trolling or do you really believe this?

This is the worst the team has ever done.

This management group has had the best drafting positions year after year with the most players NOT making the team.

TG's reference to a 40 goal scorer has to be looked at as a team improvement, what he was saying was even with Boeser the team is still one of the lowest scoring teams, what if they didn't have him? Did they count on him to score 40 goals or Dorsett's production?

 

No one's trolling, if you're part of the 'fan base' that has a hard time seeing the bigger picture and realizing that a rebuild takes longer than a couple years, that's on you.

 

Btw, I'm sure we have one of the highest % of players making the NHL out of the draft, per draft, under Benning. 5 alone from the first draft and many more to come (idk if you've heard but players don't always make the NHL right away), but continue 

 

Also, just to reply to your last point, we were second last the previous season in GF, and now we're 21/31 with the injuries to our key forwards. The team is better than last year, and people around the league have also been complimenting the 'new look Canucks'. But I guess if it's a positive to our management/staff some fail to notice.

 

Benning has been able to rebuild the organization in just a few years after being left bare by Gillis and has managed to find elite players in Boeser, Pettersson and Demko without having a top 2 pick while drafting a solid support group and keeping the team competitive. Just have patience, we'll be good soon.

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

Let's put some money on this... $50?

 

[Ballisticsports.]

14 hours ago, bloodycanuckleheads said:

Ha!  Ludicrous!

 

Let's see...  About 12 years ago, we had Schneider, Kesler, Edler and Hansen.  Five years before that, we had the Sedins, Ruutu and Allen.  Ten years before that we had Bure, Linden, Nedved, Slegr and Gino.

 

But, those don't even come close to our actual top-crop of youngsters (~1980):  Smyl, Vaive, Sundstrom, Lidster, Derlago, Fraser, Ashton, Graham.  That's nearly 5,000 points combined!  Do you seriously think we'll get 5,000 career points from our current crop of youngsters?  Anywhere even remotely close to that?

Wasn't Cam Neely in this group?

[Angry Goose]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

I say if he gets re-signed you leave and never come back

[TheGuardian_]

Apology for derailing the thread.

 

It is about "Benning's" mindset, not fan critique

 

In that vein, Burke was fairly vocal with regards to GM's in their last year being somehow handcuffed in performing their jobs. Lame duck manager.

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Ya, they said that in Edmonton in 2005.

 

He won't be fired, they just won't re-sign him. Apart from this forum he is not a hero in the mainstream, I think there were a couple of polls that were something like 65+% of the general fans were not on board with the way the team is in the standings.

Being "not on board with the way the team is in the standings" does not translate to pitchforks torches and yelling "GET OUT BENNING!"

 

No one likes to lose, but I like to think most people are intelligent enough to realise teams don't just magically turn around either and that some losing is going to happen in the process in 99% of cases.

[BCNeil]

I wouldn't worry about Benning.  If they don't re-sign him, which is basically the same as firing him.  The Canucks ownership becomes a laughing stock.  Are they going to fire all the coaches too?