Quinn Hughes | #43 | D

[Phil_314]

I love what he brings on the offensive end, but tonight is one of those nights where I would trade some of that scoring and transition ability for more size and strength.

 

[Boudrias]

Playing Hughes for 25 minutes a game has limited value IMO. His d-side game is a work in progress. Are the Canucks putting to much pressure on this kid? The d-side game has major issues as the quality of players is there but results are very disjointed.   It is the biggest issue with this team. 
 

Love to see Rathbone play.

[wloutet]

On 2/16/2021 at 4:03 PM, Beefcake said:

Yikes, as good as Quinn is in the offense, he is a -14, seconds worst in the league. How can he get that number down ?

Actually, I think we need to get that number "up", as into the positives!!

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Playing Hughes for 25 minutes a game has limited value IMO. His d-side game is a work in progress. Are the Canucks putting to much pressure on this kid? The d-side game has major issues as the quality of players is there but results are very disjointed.   It is the biggest issue with this team. 
 

Love to see Rathbone play.

No question, though it seems like most of the guys have problems in transition when faced with forechecking pressure, as there have been more odd man rushes against lately.

Furthermore, checking in on players' takeaway and turnover ratios (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/team/vancouver-canucks/statistics), Hughes is -22, Myers is -19 and Schmidt is an ugly -37.  By comparison, other heavily "minus" defensemen e.g. Dahlin is -21 while Josi is only -15 (Chabot is -63).  While there are risks in generating offense off the rush e.g. missed stretch passes or turnovers, and I get that someone like Schmidt (and Chabot) often faces the toughest competition and so turnovers happen, I wonder if there is something that can be improved in their breakouts (e.g. getting the forwards and D-men making the passes better connected) and also a change in the defensive system that could make them less prone to breakdowns, then they can work to tighten things up in their own end.  As good as Holtby and Demko have been at times, they can't afford to keep giving pucks away.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Phil_314

[Fred65]

On 4/30/2021 at 10:26 AM, Phil_314 said:

No question, though it seems like most of the guys have problems in transition when faced with forechecking pressure, as there have been more odd man rushes against lately.

Furthermore, checking in on players' takeaway and turnover ratios (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/team/vancouver-canucks/statistics), Hughes is -22, Myers is -19 and Schmidt is an ugly -37.  By comparison, other heavily "minus" defensemen e.g. Dahlin is -21 while Josi is only -15 (Chabot is -63).  While there are risks in generating offense off the rush e.g. missed stretch passes or turnovers, and I get that someone like Schmidt (and Chabot) often faces the toughest competition and so turnovers happen, I wonder if there is something that can be improved in their breakouts (e.g. getting the forwards and D-men making the passes better connected) and also a change in the defensive system that could make them less prone to breakdowns, then they can work to tighten things up in their own end.  As good as Holtby and Demko have been at times, they can't afford to keep giving pucks away.

The very kernel of TG system is to pinch the D or lead with the D to over match the opponents. The system has failed. It might and does work with a D that is more agile or quick but with this group it's not the panacea we're looking for

[-AJ-]

For anyone curious, at his current career pace (93 points in 126 career games, it would take Hughes about 554 games to catch Edler's career point total and become the new record holder (obviously there are still two games left this year and who knows, maybe Edler re-signs). That's 428 more games or just over 5 more seasons. So the math would suggest that at his current pace, Hughes could catch Edler in his 8th year with the Canucks (excluding his 5-game year) when he's about 26 or 27 years old.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

For anyone curious, at his current career pace (93 points in 126 career games, it would take Hughes about 554 games to catch Edler's career point total and become the new record holder (obviously there are still two games left this year and who knows, maybe Edler re-signs). That's 428 more games or just over 5 more seasons. So the math would suggest that at his current pace, Hughes could catch Edler in his 8th year with the Canucks (excluding his 5-game year) when he's about 26 or 27 years old.

I am pretty sure if he stays till he's in his mid-late 30s he'd have a decent chance at getting to 1000 points if he can remain healthy and consistent offensively throughout the years.

[-AJ-]

Just now, Junkyard Dog said:

I am pretty sure if he stays till he's in his mid-late 30s he'd have a decent chance at getting to 1000 points if he can remain healthy and consistent offensively throughout the years.

Could definitely happen. His current rate would suggest he'd need about 1400 games probably to get there, so he'd need a long and fairly healthy career.

[Junkyard Dog]

3 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Could definitely happen. His current rate would suggest he'd need about 1400 games probably to get there, so he'd need a long and fairly healthy career.

It would mean potential for a lot of good seasons if he did produce like that. Team would also have to be good around him.

 

Hopefully we can spend a good decade in the playoffs with this core group. Would be awesome but it is a tall ask. That sort of success(consistently making the playoffs) is hard to generate and even harder to capitalize(with the cup) on.

 

Here's hoping.

[-AJ-]

50 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

It would mean potential for a lot of good seasons if he did produce like that. Team would also have to be good around him.

 

Hopefully we can spend a good decade in the playoffs with this core group. Would be awesome but it is a tall ask. That sort of success(consistently making the playoffs) is hard to generate and even harder to capitalize(with the cup) on.

 

Here's hoping.

Yeah, he'll certainly be dropping off by the time he's at 1200 and 1300 games etc., but there's also a chance that he gets closer to a point-per-game in his prime during his mid-20s.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Yeah, he'll certainly be dropping off by the time he's at 1200 and 1300 games etc., but there's also a chance that he gets closer to a point-per-game in his prime during his mid-20s.

Our team has a group of really good young players, with more on the way.  Quinn will put up a ppg for the coming decade.  He’s the best D man we’ve seen here.  

[kloubek]

In his rookie season, I felt Hughes was ok defensively. Obviously he has small size to his detriment, but he seemed to be able to catch up with guys if he made an error, and generally seemed pretty defensively aware. This season though, he looks to have regressed. Overall he still seems to have the mobility, but, dare I say, he just doesn't look as fast out there as he did last year, and his plays seem not quite as confident. 

 

I have little doubt he will be the best defensemen we've ever had, but I've been surprised to see what I consider to be a sophmore slump. (And I'm also talking pre-covid, though post-covid it has been most apparent). Guess the entire team didn't exactly hit it out of the park this season...

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, kloubek said:

In his rookie season, I felt Hughes was ok defensively. Obviously he has small size to his detriment, but he seemed to be able to catch up with guys if he made an error, and generally seemed pretty defensively aware. This season though, he looks to have regressed. Overall he still seems to have the mobility, but, dare I say, he just doesn't look as fast out there as he did last year, and his plays seem not quite as confident. 

 

I have little doubt he will be the best defensemen we've ever had, but I've been surprised to see what I consider to be a sophmore slump. (And I'm also talking pre-covid, though post-covid it has been most apparent). Guess the entire team didn't exactly hit it out of the park this season...

Tanev factor is also pretty important. He was the best type of defense partner for him. It allowed him to do his thing. Hughes doesn't have amazing top end speed either. He's speed is good not great. He is much more agile than he is fast and has a good first step that allows him to accelerate to his top speed which in turn makes his a super shifty skater.

[nergish]

That was a great game, especially OT for Hughesy last night.
There was a play in overtime that struck me... 
 

 

That is how he will play D consistently when he's a bit stronger/more physically mature.

I love how wide his eyes seem to get with all that open ice during 3-on-3 overtime.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

41 minutes ago, nergish said:

That was a great game, especially OT for Hughesy last night.
There was a play in overtime that struck me... 
 

 

That is how he will play D consistently when he's a bit stronger/more physically mature.

I love how wide his eyes seem to get with all that open ice during 3-on-3 overtime.

Yeah, he is made for 3 on 3.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, Maniwaki Canuck said:

Yeah, he is made for 3 on 3.

Give him a quality defender pairing (like say Hamhuis or Tanev in their prime), and you'll see Hughes really shine in *all* situations.

[Maniwaki Canuck]

Just now, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Give him a quality defender pairing (like say Hamhuis or Tanev in their prime), and you'll see Hughes really shine in *all* situations.

I think so.  Hamonic could well be that guy.  This year Quinn has tried to do a bit too much because of the team's struggles, and it's bit him in the ass many times.  You'd rather have that than someone who doesn't want to make a difference though.   He'll learn, get stronger, and become an even better player, but he's a rover and a riverboat gambler so you're gonna get the bad with the good.

[bigbadcanucks]

17 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Give him a quality defender pairing (like say Hamhuis or Tanev in their prime), and you'll see Hughes really shine in *all* situations.

Hughes also looked really good with Luke Schenn when he first got to Vancouver. 

 

In my opinion, anyone judging Hughes on his play this year and citing his defensive shortcomings are doing so unfairly.  Where I believe Hughes has to change is his game is on the mental side.  My take is that he thinks the game at a higher level than others and has the expectation that they should be able to make plays like he does, so he inadvertently puts his defense partners in difficult position with the notion "I can make this play, why can't you?" or tries to do too much himself.

 

Not saying Hughes is overly ego-centric (I hope he is to a certain degree because this is a quality all superstars should have), but if he had a little higher awareness that others aren't as skilled as he is, Hughes would be out of this world outstanding.

 

I think Jack Rathbone is a guy who is skilled and smart enough to play with Hughes, and together could become one of the best, if not the best d-pair we've seen on the Canucks for many years to come.

 

EDIT: Not sure if I'm articulating what I really am trying to say very clearly...point is, I think it takes a highly cerebral player who is able to play a simple game to partner with Hughes.  Tanev was the perfect guy for Hughes.

Edited May 17, 2021 by bigbadcanucks

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, bigbadcanucks said:

My take is that he thinks the game at a higher level than others and has the expectation that they should be able to make plays like he does,

Igor Larionov's first Canuck training camp he would make these really stupid passes to no one. Looked bad, till you thought "Hey, if someone was there, it would have been a 2 on 1 for the Nucks."

 

Hughes will be fine. This year he got to experience:

a global pandemic

a 2 day training camp

a very condensed start to the year

an early injury to his D partner in Hamonic, 

A case of covid

an extremely condensed schedule to end the season.

 

 

 

[kloubek]

16 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

point is, I think it takes a highly cerebral player who is able to play a simple game to partner with Hughes.  Tanev was the perfect guy for Hughes.

You're absolutely right - though I can understand the team's desire to move on. Problem is, we haven't found that guy yet. 

 

I don't mind Hamonic for what he brings, but he isn't gelling with Hughes the same way Tanev did. I don't necessarily think we need a guy who plays a "simple" game, but we do need a guy who can anticipate what Hughes will do, and be a steady defensive cushion should it all not work out as planned. We also need a guy who can cycle the puck at a high level. Quick, strong passes and an effective saucer pass. A heavy shot as an option wouldn't hurt either...