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[GDT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Vegas Golden Knights | August 29th, 2020 | 6:45pm PT, SNP | R2G3

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Roberts

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Posted by Roger Neilsons Towel,

ALRIGHT EVERYBODY! LETS GET BACK TO CANUCKS TALK! IT’S THE PLAYOFFS BABY! GO CANUCKS GO!     
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swizzey Abbotsford Star

swizzey

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33 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

One woman describing herself as a Marxist is not the smoking gun you seem to think it is. The thing with a broad umbrella movement is you're gonna have a number of different views within it - from centre right to far left in BLM's case. It's not really hierarchical let alone a monolith.

You do realize she is the co-founder of BLM right? 

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mayor MCcheese Abbotsford Prospect

mayor MCcheese

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10 hours ago, yes we can nucks said:

I agree most cops are good. The trouble is in many parts of the US many of them aren't. Too many of them cross the line when interacting with people of colour. They are influenced by their biases and prejudice towards them. Cops in some places in the US are not highly educated. This contributes to their attitude towards people of colour. Some solutions to the problems of police brutality and racist behaviour are to require higher education and careful vetting of recruits. Also severe consequences for repeat offenders who have abused their authority.

Yes, people should be cooperative when interacting with the police. But how about when the cop is unjustified in confronting a citizen? I have seen a video recently of a cop in the US approaching a black man picking up garbage with a stick outside his own apartment building. He was questioned if he lived there and he said yes. When he was asked for ID to prove it he said he didn't have it on him. He offered to take the cop to his suite but the cop wouldn't do it. The cop told him to drop his 'weapon' and go with him. By now the man got agitated and walked away, refusing to cooperate. He kept insisting he did nothing wrong and didn't have to comply. Luckily the situation was resolved when the building manager came and vouched forvthe man. The cop ended up being fired after the complaint filed against him.

There are countless stories like this that weren't captured on tape of cops that abused their authority. Black Americans particularly do not trust their police and hesitate to comply to orders by cops who ask for their ID for no reason. So I think there are situations when people have a right not to cooperate with the police. Not all the responsibility lies with the citizen in their interaction with police.

There’s literally no situation where it’s ok not to cooperate with he police. That’s the law.

 

As far as your scenario, I’ve been in similar situations a couple of times. You just cooperate with them and it gets cleared up. Arguing only escalates the situation unnecessarily.

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oldnews Canucks Hall-of-Famer

oldnews

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1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

One woman describing herself as a Marxist is not the smoking gun you seem to think it is. The thing with a broad umbrella movement is you're gonna have a number of different views within it - from centre right to far left in BLM's case. It's not really hierarchical let alone a monolith.

When you get down to it - those "Marxist" types within black communities  - in the past, were seemingly hunted down and disposed of - by both police and much harder elements in their communities, far less amenable to 'western values' than their counterparts - ie the Nation of Islam = far more militant, hostile to 'western values' than any black liberal/Marxist.

 

Watch the series regarding the death of Malcolm X - and you'll find that it's when he broke with the Nation of Islam - started to take a more "secular" viewpoint - and started exposing a more exclusive and corrupt, black nationalism - he wound up shot multiple times, to death, as a result.   It may run deeper than that - to potential collaboration/incitement with/between US "security" forces - but the point here is that if people are going to fear black "Marxists" - it's all relative - they might not really know/realize the deeper realities/complexities in black communities.  My own impressions are also, admittedly, from decades ago, but I'm not sure they're irrelevent in the present.

 

This is an aside, but a few personal experiences that I learned a fair amount from.

 

A few years ago, an in-law of mine died in a boating accident - a fisherman, he died while his boat capsized, fishing off the coast of Vancouver Island.  I went to his funeral up island - and learned/heard a relatively fascinating thing about him.  I'll preface this by saying he was what most people would consider a "redneck" - he loved Nascar, drove a monster truck - and his funeral was attended by countless people that would be considered 'right' wing - bikers, "white" fishermen - from a small, fairly tightly knit island community.  

The story = when he heard about the Rodney King beating - and riots in Los Angeles - he and a buddy jumped in their truck, and drove to Los Angeles - went into the highly charged, racially divided community.   He and his buddy walked into a bar - obviously the only two 'white' people there - and were received with relative shock and silence.  They walked up to the bar - ordered a drink - and explained what they were doing there.  They weren't a 'trojan horse', they weren't infiltrating, they weren't agitating - they were a couple everyday people from Vancouver Island, Canada, who heard what was happening and wanted to go there, meet the people there, and hear what they had to say.  They left that place safely - having learned a lot of things they did not know before taking the risk.

 

It struck a real chord with me.  Because, I had a somewhat parallel experience.  When I was young, I went to Philadelphia - to live in one of the roughest, most dangerous neighborhoods in West Philly - a place most people I later met (who knew Philadelphia) could not believe I'd actually lived.  Not a day passed that I did not hear gunshots, automatic weapon fire, etc.   There was an ongoing 'war' against black people in that inner city - it's a place where the "Philadelphia Move" - Mumia Abu Jamal - "Voice of the Voiceless" were active - where black nationalism, black radicalism were currency - with a decidedly, necessarily political undertone to most of the culture.   Police had bombed the home of the Move family, killing 6 adults and 5 children - the resulting, unattended fire burned down 62 homes in the neighborhood. 

 

I walked literally every corner of that city, over a few months - and never, not once, feared for my safety. I just worked, walked, spoke with people, went about my business, and never once was confronted with any "reverse racism" - threats - hatred - expectation that I 'explain myself' or my presence there.  It was a real eye-opener.   The most signature experience I had there was probably an interaction I had in one of the poorer, more dangerous sub-sections of the very economically depressed city.  (You could buy a home there for 2 or 3 thousand dollars - "white flight"/fear of black people had caused a real exit/exodus out of the white middle and working classes from those communities, which had previously been more 'integrated'.   In any event, I was walking through a community where 'white' people don't walk - and a man approached me - he said essentially "brother, don't you realize how dangerous it is to be here, by yourself?"  I said - "no, I don't."   He smiled - he grabbed my hand, essentially thanked me for not fearing the 'black man'.   Call me stupid, naive, etc - but I was none of those things (perhaps fortunate) but  I'll footnote this by saying - I probably would not have ventured in the same way into other cities in the US - where the dynamic is more gang-related, violence was more random, less 'predictable', and the culture less about political change, resistance, engagement (than what was considered "East coast", relative to "West coast").  I wasn't a Marxist, I wasn't an anarchist, etc = I was an individual, unaffiliated, wanting to see, hear, witness, experience the truth - and I'm thankful for the experience, the people I met, and the grace/tolerance to do so.  Is that possible/advisable today?  I don't know.  I'm too old to find out.

 

When I heard the story of my in-law - I had to pause and wonder what drove us - what the coincidence was - but the outcomes = were also relatively parallel.

With that - I'm ready for hockey - thank folks here for the discussions - from varying viewpoints.

 

 

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yes we can nucks Canucks Third-Line

yes we can nucks

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31 minutes ago, mayor MCcheese said:

There’s literally no situation where it’s ok not to cooperate with he police. That’s the law.

 

As far as your scenario, I’ve been in similar situations a couple of times. You just cooperate with them and it gets cleared up. Arguing only escalates the situation unnecessarily.

Well as I mentioned, in that case the cop was fired because it was found that he did not have just cause to confront that man simply picking up garbage. He also could have agreed to follow the guy to his suite to prove he lived there. So apparently cops break laws too while on duty. And in doing so, should citizens be required to comply to their orders?

Not being black I can't fully appreciate how upsetting it is to be racially profiled constantly in their daily lives. Sometimes even when they comply to a cop's orders they end up brutalized. So I understand why they hesitate or refuse to comply sometimes.

Edited by yes we can nucks
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Hairy Kneel Canucks All-Star

Hairy Kneel

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It's so ironic to bring up marxism now, as we see the sad state of capitalism under attack today. Cartels and lobbyists are the real danger to western democracy. Politicians are gorging at the trough selling out to the highest bidders. Hi NRA. I remember reading about 'Marxism' as the boogeyman of the west. But lobbyists and big oil and big pharma run the government now. And Trump is their front man. And he loves being front and center of this gong show. And now he's on the verge of wiping out voting rights? He's the master of creating havoc and distraction. The sooner he's gone the better for us all.

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canuck2288 Canucks Franchise Player

canuck2288

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I just wanted to take a minute to say just how proud I am of our players 

 

they have demonstrated nothing but class and maturity beyond their years and when clowns from the Blues and Vegas were acting like fools on camera our boys were classy and composed 

 

now they have shown they are concerned with social justice issues 

 

great group of humans we have on our Canucks roster 

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