[GDT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Vegas Golden Knights | August 29th, 2020 | 6:45pm PT, SNP | R2G3

[MikeBossy]

I've seen others posting stats on police killings - here's one you might want to have a look at and read what some of the suggested solutions are:

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793#sec-3

 

My favourite part of the study and commentary is this:

 

While our research does not evaluate the effects of policy, we believe that several avenues of reform may be fruitful in reducing rates of death. Austerity in social welfare and public health programs has led to police and prisons becoming catch-all responses to social problems (43, 44). Adequately funding community-based services and restricting the use of armed officers as first responders to mental health and other forms of crisis would likely reduce the volume of people killed by police (44). Increasing the ability of the public to engage in the regulation of policing through both investigatory commissions with disciplinary teeth and equal participation in police union contract negotiations would also likely reduce rates of death (45).

 

 

[10pavelbure96]

What a joke.

 

Oh well. Hopefully myers is back for game 3 now lol.

 

I thought Canadian bubbles would be exempt from this crap but oh well

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

Happens more than we think apparently

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/police-wellness-check-alternatives-1.5637169

 

Living with bipolar disorder for 25 years has led Bill Pringle to dark places. Along the way, he said he has gained insight into how police handle mental health crises and what needs to change in their approach.

The Saskatoon man has had eight suicide attempts, which sometimes included interacting with police officers.

 

Once, he was treated as though he had committed a crime. In another instance, he described police as having a reassuring effect. "The difference in training was very evident," Pringle said.

During one of his earlier suicide attempts, years ago while living in Vancouver, he said the police "essentially accused me of attention-seeking and would not call an ambulance for me."

Instead, Pringle said, he was handcuffed and taken to the hospital where he eventually overdosed, which resulted in him being ejected from the facility. "I have never really gotten past that incident," he said.

But he credited Saskatoon police for being "calm and considerate" during a more recent suicide attempt. "They spent time with me while I was waiting for the ambulance to come. They even followed the ambulance to the hospital to make sure that I was safe and OK." 

• Family of Ont. man fatally shot by police 'can't wrap our heads' around how wellness check ended in his death

Police responses to mental health crises have come under scrutiny following the recent deaths of Ejaz Choudry, Chantel Moore, Regis Korchinski-Paquet, and D'Andre Campbell, prompting demands to defund police. Canada's largest psychiatric hospital, the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, also called for police to be removed from leading "this important work."

Pringle, who is the former chair of the National Council of Persons with Lived Experience, an advocacy group for people living with mental illness, said the deaths highlight a problem that, "desperately needs to be addressed."

Though he agreed that police may be needed to attend certain mental health situations, he added, "I don't think police should be the first line of response."

Integrated mental health crisis teams more common

Police departments in Canada have received more training for dealing with people with mental illness than ever before, as noted by a 2014 report prepared for the Mental Health Commission of Canada, and do "a reasonable job."

Most municipal police departments from Victoria to St. John's also have some form of an integrated mental health crisis team, which partners police with mental health professionals to perform wellness checks, which are sometimes known as emotionally disturbed person calls.

In cities such as Hamilton, the use of teams has led to significant reductions of people being detained under mental health legislation.

WATCH | Mental health workers call for change in police wellness checks:

Watch

Mental health workers call for change in police wellness checks

• 2 months ago
•  
  • 2:34
  •  
    • Turn captions on

 

 

Mental health advocates, health-care providers call for changes to how emergency teams respond to wellness calls after at least four Canadians have been killed by police since April. 2:34

But many of these units don't operate around the clock, or they're brought into situations too late, and in the end it's often the police who are in charge — and they're not mental health experts despite recent training improvements.

Toronto psychiatric nurse Sarah Reynolds said integrated teams are "a great model" that could be used more frequently. 

• Hamilton police send mental health pros to the front lines with cops

Reynolds worked with the Toronto Mobile Crisis Intervention Team (MCIT) alongside specially trained officers from the Toronto Police Service for 18 months. She said if there was ever any talk of a weapon or "an unstable situation" during a wellness check, police would quickly take over.

"The nurses could be far more effective if we were front and centre doing the major assessment, and having police as back up," she said.

• Pivot Legal Society calls for more police training around mental health

In 20 years of emergency room experience as part of a psychiatric team, Reynolds said she has regularly managed patients who she described as "psychotic."

"I've taken knives away from people in the emergency room," she said, adding "sometimes I feel people [in distress] react to the police presence, which can make them more aggressive or afraid."

Reynolds said this is often the case in potential "suicide by cop" situations, which require "patience, skill and it takes health-care experts not police experts."

Mental health ambulance instead of police

Indeed, Sweden's capital Stockholm has tried to remove police from psychiatric emergencies altogether with the 2015 launch of a mental health ambulance.

The Psychiatric Acute Mobility Team (PAM), which is composed of nurses and paramedics, responds to crises such as suicide threats or severe behavioural issues much like a conventional ambulance.

A study of its first year of operation published in the International Journal of Mental Health found police were needed in  49 per cent of calls the team attended. However, the program's manager told CBC News the ambulance cannot keep up with the demand for its services.

 

Sarah Reynolds, a psychiatric nurse who worked with Toronto police in a crisis intervention team, said mental health professionals should be given more responsibilities when responding to wellness checks. (Jonathan Castell/CBC)

Halifax-based mental health advocate and legal scholar Archibald Kaiser has long supported the exclusion of police from responding to mental health crises.

"When the police attend, they may well come with what I would call the wrong mindset, emphasizing law enforcement priorities over empathetic caring and human rights-respecting responses to people who are in crisis."

Kaiser represented the Canadian Mental Health Association in the 1986 public inquiry into the police shooting death of Harold Lowe, an unarmed Halifax man with a long history of mental illness who had barricaded himself in his apartment after he stopped taking his medication.

"You know it's just endlessly frustrating for me that the same tragic scenes get acted out again and again," he said.

 

The Psychiatric Acute Mobility team operates this mental health ambulance in Stockholm, Sweden. (Annika Bremer/PAM)

Kaiser, a law professor at Dalhousie University cross-appointed to the school's department of psychiatry, said altercations with police are often the result of a mental health care system that has failed people.

"It's a deliberate choice to under invest in societal inclusion and provision of treatment, which is eminently correctable."

Kaiser said people who have lived with mental illness should have a role in designing a system that better supports their needs, especially in times of crisis.

"Involve others, you know mental health professionals, legal professionals, and police service providers at the end rather than at the beginning," he added.

That is horrific. Again, this shows there is extremely serious problem with police. Clearly the hiring practices of most police forces is woefully inadequate if such vile individuals are tasked with serving and protecting, but end up doing whatever suits them instead. 

[CBH1926]

20 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I was a cheeky monkey a little while ago and watched a PPV sporting event streamed on one of those dodgy websites.

They had a unfiltered, none moderated chat streaming on the side. Thousands of people were posting so it flew by almost faster than you could read. However what you could catch was insane. I knew racism existed but holy smokes, I had never seen/read anything like it, absolutely disgusting. The things people post when they are comfortable in their anonymity is staggering. Also shows that there is a real problem. It's not just the media and blah blah blah.

 

Breitbart has 85 000 comments on the story, you can read comments at your own leisure.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/26/kenosha-illinois-teenager-kyle-rittenhouse-charged-with-murder-for-fatal-shooting/

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

I've seen others posting stats on police killings - here's one you might want to have a look at and read what some of the suggested solutions are:

 

https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793#sec-3

 

My favourite part of the study and commentary is this:

 

While our research does not evaluate the effects of policy, we believe that several avenues of reform may be fruitful in reducing rates of death. Austerity in social welfare and public health programs has led to police and prisons becoming catch-all responses to social problems (43, 44). Adequately funding community-based services and restricting the use of armed officers as first responders to mental health and other forms of crisis would likely reduce the volume of people killed by police (44). Increasing the ability of the public to engage in the regulation of policing through both investigatory commissions with disciplinary teeth and equal participation in police union contract negotiations would also likely reduce rates of death (45).

 

 

Which in the end is the goal. 

[VanIsleNuckFan]

This was quite a class act by Bo, no matter what the perception you may have, there are people that are hurting and this gesture and statement should be looked at by everyone as a nobile one. (Not meant as a virtue signal, I could care less what people on the internet think of me lol) 

 

Besides a few days off will help our guys and Saturday works better for me to watch live anyway lol.

 

Sometimes perception matters most. Good on Bo, Go Canucks Go!

Edited August 28, 2020 by VanIsleNuckFan

[bishopshodan]

Just now, CBH1926 said:

Breitbart has 85 000 comments on the story, you can read comments at your own leisure.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/26/kenosha-illinois-teenager-kyle-rittenhouse-charged-with-murder-for-fatal-shooting/

I respectfully decline.

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, gurn said:

n an interaction with the police there are only 2 things you need to do: 1: Do exactly what you are told. No more and no less. Weather you are innocent or not. 2: Do not give attitude and talk back. Answer the questions respectfully. Don't argue.

People have rights, so instant obedience is not required in most cases. But I expect you won't see this as you are done with hockey, and thus this board.

[MikeBossy]

9 minutes ago, You Mad Bro? said:

Sorry but going to call bull$&!# on this - we need to stop saying its choices that define where we end up. Do a bit of research before posting ridiculous little memes like this. Using this philosophy black men choose to get shot by police at a higher number than white men? And incarcerated at a higher rate. So basically you are saying white men are smarter than black men because they make better choices?

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

People have rights, so instant obedience is not required in most cases. But I expect you won't see this as you are done with hockey, and thus this board.

Why are you quoting yourself? 

[Gurn]

22 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

And I know this is a thread about the game but since it has been postponed and we all seem to be sharing our views let me tell you about my young daughter's run in with the police.

 

Her and her boyfriend who she was living with at the time had a huge argument - both had been drinking and she became very distraught and said she wanted to kill herself. She went and had a bath and her boyfriend called the police. He had my ex-wife's phone number and his girlfriends sister's number but he chose to call the police. She was crying in her room when the police showed up and they proceeded to drag her naked out of the house even as she protested and appeared suicidal and asked them to take her to the hospital. They told her she was just drunk and berated her while taking her to the police station. She spent the night in a cell wearing basically a gunny sack for clothes and was not monitored or offered medical intervention. Her mother and her sister went down and pleaded with the officers to release her as she had not been aggressive at all to her boyfriend nor had she done any property damage or shown any aggression towards her boyfriend or the officers.They refused and would not give her medical attention even though she had called her mother and expressed the same suicidal thoughts. She does not share this story as she is so ashamed of what they did to her and she is caucasian. I can only imagine what they have done to indigenous people and other minorities if this is how they treated her. While this is not just a issue for minorities the fact remains they are disproportionately abused by police officers compared to white people. 

 

IT SHOULD NOT TAKE SOMEONE GETTING SHOT AND?OR KILLED  for us to have the conversation that there needs to be reform in our various police forces!

Mental health is vastly, vastly under funded and vastly vastly misunderstood.

B.C. shut down psychiatric hospitals and kicked people out to the streets; then didn't even really try to build up other support systems.

 

[Squamfan]

 

[Angry Goose]

14 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

100% ....but not many are asking the question,  just branding it rasist with very little context. That's my point .

Yeah, painting it with the broad racist brush doesn't seem fair either

[bishopshodan]

10 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

Happens more than we think apparently

My bro is bi-polar.

The cops have beat the crap out of him a few times when he was spiraling.  Dislocated shoulder, black eyes, right in his own drive way one of the times. After family had requested the police to come and help. Then off the the psyche ward, only to talk his way out within a couple days. Then the suicide attempt, then back into the ward to do it all over again. 

 

The whole system is flawed, the cops need mental health training and/or assistance. The hospitals need way better systems. It's a disgrace. 

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

What a joke.

 

Oh well. Hopefully myers is back for game 3 now lol.

 

I thought Canadian bubbles would be exempt from this crap but oh well

Would have had a lot more of an effect if there was actually fans going to the game and they postponed.
 

No the boys are stuck in the bubble and it’s probably getting pretty old for them not seeing there families just and just stuck there. Then they don’t play hockey where there is no fans anyway. I understand the statement they are trying to make but how much will it actually do

[You Mad Bro?]

1 minute ago, MikeBossy said:

Sorry but going to call bull$&!# on this - we need to stop saying its choices that define where we end up. Do a bit of research before posting ridiculous little memes like this. Using this philosophy black men choose to get shot by police at a higher number than white men? And incarcerated at a higher rate. So basically you are saying white men are smarter than black men because they make better choices?

I post a legit meme and you’re telling me I’m saying white men are smarter then black men.. nice one dude. Black men make up roughly 7% of the population and commit roughly 50% of the homicides. Choosing to kill someone is a bad choice. Not doing what you’re told when being arrested is a bad choice too. We can disagree and that’s fine. But don’t completely spin something to make nasty accusations like I think white people are smarter than black people. Cmon man

[CBH1926]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I respectfully decline.

Come on, visit the sewers of America and see some paranoia, hatred and racism.

[canuckspride]

FIRE GREEN!

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Why are you quoting yourself? 

Ahh, that was from McCheese's post from earlier, but I wasn't going back 15 or 30 pages to get it again, so took from my first reply to him.

 

[MikeBossy]

4 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That is horrific. Again, this shows there is extremely serious problem with police. Clearly the hiring practices of most police forces is woefully inadequate if such vile individuals are tasked with serving and protecting, but end up doing whatever suits them instead. 

Quite honestly some of the fault lies at the various police agencies. I used to work in the oilsands and northeast BC and in many of the camps the security were ex- RCMP officer in their 50's and 60's. They were amazing communicators and in a camp of 2000 men 2 or 3 of them could handle any issue because they were diplomatic and were able to problem solve. They told me it used to be any new recruit would be paired with a senior office for training and when working or on patrol. The problem was they were more and more being required to do office work and paperwork which bogged them down (not to mention the lousy salaries they received based on their workload) Add onto that the mental stress from working a field with high stress and the fact they could leave, collect a pension and work in the private sector for more money and less stress. The answer isnt to defund police forces - it's allowing more public input and transparency, better training on mental health and self care and proper funding.