Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

[Baggins]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

We traded a legit #1 goalie in the middle of his prime for a 9th overall pick. We wouldn't have done that for a depth player.

 

Horvat's ceiling was a top end 2C and that's about where is he right now. Teams don't select players that project to be 3rd liners in the top 10.

 

That quote is one source, and even they say he can be a top-6er.

 

Button had him compared to ROR. And here's Pronman:

Described as, "one of the most complete forwards in this draft," by Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus, Bo Horvat has been steadily moving up draft boards. At 6'0" and 203 pounds, Horvat is a physical two-way center who kills penalties and wins face-offs. What separates him from the pack is his offensive upside.

Funny thing about prospects, opinions vary. Projections often aren't reality. What that particular projection said was expect a very good 3C with the possibility of 2C. This difference is what to expect versus what's possible (the ceiling). Many choose to expect the ceiling. Unrealistic expectations that often lead to disappointment. As far as I'm concerned the only knock stopping him being projected as top 6 was his skating. Which he managed to greatly improve after his first season. He was tied at 25th scoring in the OHL his last season and that's just one junior league. Meaning he wasn't considered an elite producer in his draft. Not even close, but he was a "complete player" with size raising his value. Don't underestimate the value of a forward already being good defensively in the draft. It tougher to teach prospects that side of the game, particularly the ones that view themselves as offensive players (see Virtanen). Btw, Goldobin outproduced him by 20 points that OHL season and went 27th.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

I've been through the "Benning inherited garbage" argument a million times now so I'm not even going to bother.

 

But Horvat projecting to be a 3C? That's new lol

For Horvat, I think it’s fair to say he’s surpassed his draft expectations. 
 

NHL Potential: 2nd or 3rd line Centre

https://thehockeywriters.com/bo-horvat-the-next-ones-nhl-2013-draft-prospect-profile/
 

 

“Long-term he projects as an ideal third-line center in the NHL”

https://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/bo-horvat/

 

I’m any case, agree to disagree.  I followed the team through those years and felt the whole time we simply had a serious lack of top end talent and selling the stale bits wasn’t going to land top line or top pairing pieces.

[10pavelbure96]

On 10/9/2020 at 6:24 AM, Mo Grit said:

Is Benning a great GM?  OP's question may well be answered very soon by JB himself.

His aw-shucks, hockey-man demeanour made an interesting contrast to the shrewd business-like manner of Gillis.

I was a huge fan of MG though, and consider his appointment over no-action Nonis was a revelation.

Gillis in 6 years achieved a Stanley Cup Final, 2 Presidents' Trophies, 1 GM of the year award, 1 Conference and 5 division titles, 5 playoff appearances.

Our most accomplished GM by a country mile.

Yet, even suffering through 4 years of Nonis, he did get us a division title and a playoff appearance.

 

Benning, despite a compliant owner, over a longer opportunity than Gillis, has achieved less than Nonis.

I would not have believed that possible, back in 2014.  My guess is that at this point, he should feel lucky to survive for much longer, given the roster we're stuck with for another 2 covid years.

 

Hell, if Fransesco had appointed himself part-time GM and kept/dealt for draft picks to select the consensus best player available per round, we'd now be talent-laden.  JB's coaching hires have been mediocre and little help to his cause, while the assistants they hired themselves have proved ineffective at motivating or innovating.  I can't think of any JB trades who have improved their game since arriving on Easy Street in Vancouver.

Some retain existing learned skills and work ethic like Miller&Motte, but that's hasn't been the norm.

 

Maybe Benning's impressive draft picks will bail him out, but sadly its too early for them and too late for him.

 

Apples and oranges. Benning inherited a team that was destined for a rebuild with a stale core, torts said it himself.

 

Gillis inherited a team ready to take the next step with players like luongo, Kesler and the Sedins all in the prime of their careers.

 

Lol you cant even compare and I'm a fan of both of them.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

In regards to the lack of activity from JB, part of me wants to theorize here.  I wonder if JB chooses not to do much in order to save cap and posture this team for the following expansion draft and find a way to capitalize on a team who is facing a hard decision on a few players.  Considering that this season is already up in the air and with a condensed schedule, he figures that it could be a wash of a season, so give some time to developing the prospects and young players to see who he wants to keep and leverage as assets.

 

Does JB and his management have enough foresight for this?  Not that I'm saying this is why JB has been quiet as a mouse in the offseason so far, but part of me wonders if he is intentionally being quiet to let the dust settle and allow him to observe and see which team he can target going forward. 

 

 

[triangulate]

Logged on just so I could vote JB is NOT a great GM.

 

er

 

Bye

[DS4quality]

I think Jimbo is looking for found money so to speak. He needs Rafferty and/or one of Rathbone or Juolevi to turn out to be a stand out this season. And he still needs to acquire another forward and RHD to stay competitive. 

At one point this looked like a destination, let's hope Petey and co. can still make this an attractive place next season. 

And for the record I have to say I am relatively neutral on JB. 

I don't think he's great, but I don't think he is terrible. 

I think for him to be great in my eyes he has to somehow build a winning season next year. 

If we make the playoffs next season and or are at least better than one of if not both the Oilers and Flames then I'll truly believe he is great. 

 

[coolboarder]

7 minutes ago, DS4quality said:

I think Jimbo is looking for found money so to speak. He needs Rafferty and/or one of Rathbone or Juolevi to turn out to be a stand out this season. And he still needs to acquire another forward and RHD to stay competitive. 

At one point this looked like a destination, let's hope Petey and co. can still make this an attractive place next season. 

And for the record I have to say I am relatively neutral on JB. 

I don't think he's great, but I don't think he is terrible. 

I think for him to be great in my eyes he has to somehow build a winning season next year. 

If we make the playoffs next season and or are at least better than one of if not both the Oilers and Flames then I'll truly believe he is great. 

 

Exactly is what Benning is banking on.  He sees that Hughes and Pettterson will command a ton of cash and would love to lock them up long term and he also sees that bottom 6 contacts runs out within 1-2 years, freeing up a lot of cap for a timely free agent signing after Hughes and Petterson get their money.  He is preparing for his propsects to take up the bottom 6 roles. He is saving up for something bigger for next off-season if he sees that there is still holes that needs to be filled  

 

He is more likely to sign placeholder free agents on defence for internal competition for training camp and if prospect is better than placeholder signings then they will be given priority to make the team.  2020-21 season is more likely to be a shorten season and he wants to give his NHL-ready prospect a shot to make the team and feels that his prospects is ready to beat the placeholder signings that he may make for cheap without worrying about exposing them to waivers.   I see Benning's strategy is to sign some placeholder for cheap for the readiness purpose and if his prospects don't have a great training camp then he will give them time to develop their game even further. He will make a back-up plan for 5D-6D or even 7D role for one-year deals.  It's time to cut the cord on our veterans on this team and allow for young players who have been slow-cooking in the minors for years a chance to make this team.  Even it might backfired but still a right strategy at this timeline for the franchise.

[DS4quality]

1 minute ago, coolboarder said:

Exactly is what Benning is banking on.  He sees that Hughes and Pettterson will command a ton of cash and would love to lock them up long term and he also sees that bottom 6 contacts runs out within 1-2 years, freeing up a lot of cap for a timely free agent signing after Hughes and Petterson get their money.  He is preparing for his propsects to take up the bottom 6 roles. He is saving up for something bigger for next off-season if he sees that there is still holes that needs to be filled  

 

He is more likely to sign placeholder free agents on defence for internal competition for training camp and if prospect is better than placeholder signings then they will be given priority to make the team.  2020-21 season is more likely to be a shorten season and he wants to give his NHL-ready prospect a shot to make the team and feels that his prospects is ready to beat the placeholder signings that he may make for cheap without worrying about exposing them to waivers.   I see Benning's strategy is to sign some placeholder for cheap for the readiness purpose and if his prospects don't have a great training camp then he will give them time to develop their game even further. He will make a back-up plan for 5D-6D or even 7D role for one-year deals.  It's time to cut the cord on our veterans on this team and allow for young players who have been slow-cooking in the minors for years a chance to make this team.  Even it might backfired but still a right strategy at this timeline for the franchise.

I would love for Demko or Holtby to have a Vezina like season.  And if Rafferty and X(insert right side dman) can hold the fort next year we might be ok.  It may be a trade, or a signing or not holding my breath but who ever it is better be ready to be a major scapegoat this year. 

I could also see Jim swinging for the fences and landing Pietrangelo. And we'd probably have enough LTIR to fit him on the team

[Iggynucks]

I think he’s getting much better. He’s taking a lot of flak from his earlier mistakes (rightfully so) but I can’t think of a terrible move over the past couple seasons. Reasonable contracts, good trades and great drafting obviously. GMs are rookies at one point. They make mistakes too but at least Jim seems to be learning from them.

[48MPHSlapShot]

He's done some good stuff in the draft, and he's made some good trades here and there (also made some bad ones), but this situation we're in now is absolutely unforgivable. I stupidly had faith that we'd be able to move some of these bad contracts out, and while COVID compounded the issue and made it worse, this was always going to happen. Not only are we still hampered with terrible contracts that are hindering our ability to improve the team, but we got absolutely nothing in return for the players we lost. Toffoli (who cost us a 2nd rd pick and Madden), Markstrom, Tanev AND Stetcher are gone for nothing. I understand that we wouldn't have been able to net assets for all of theses players, but none of them? Even if we weren't sold on Madden as a prospect (which most people here were until he was moved, at which point he apparently became "too small" to make it in the NHL), those assets still could have been attached to a bad contract and moved out, which would have given us some flexibility to actually improve the team. 

 

And the thing is, even with contracts coming off the books next season, that money is going to have to be given to Pettersson and Hughes, so we won't be any better off next season either. We're &^@#ed, plain and simple, and yes, it is Benning's fault. The sky is actually falling and he needs to be gotten rid of. I would of said "he needs to be gotten rid of before it's too late", but it is too late. The damage has been done. Now what we need is someone to come in and clean up this dumpster fire. 

[IBatch]

9 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

In regards to the lack of activity from JB, part of me wants to theorize here.  I wonder if JB chooses not to do much in order to save cap and posture this team for the following expansion draft and find a way to capitalize on a team who is facing a hard decision on a few players.  Considering that this season is already up in the air and with a condensed schedule, he figures that it could be a wash of a season, so give some time to developing the prospects and young players to see who he wants to keep and leverage as assets.

 

Does JB and his management have enough foresight for this?  Not that I'm saying this is why JB has been quiet as a mouse in the offseason so far, but part of me wonders if he is intentionally being quiet to let the dust settle and allow him to observe and see which team he can target going forward. 

 

 

Crazy like a fox.   For a month I’ve been poking threads in here that the best foot forward at this point could be to let all three walk, let the cap shed naturally, find a few cheap temporary players and strike when the cap climate is better.   Looks like a lot of players will be floating for a bit and have to wonder about those teams throwing caution to the wind and giving themselves more cap issues.  
 

The 17 games were great, but long term it was plenty obvious to me at least it wasn’t going to work, even with the core getting better because nobody in our core aside from QHs is on defense.     Doubling down and taking on 4 plus million in cap to do that just wasn’t the smartest route (with our big three UFAs).   It would also mean Demko is gone too, and gone in a market flush in goalies isn’t a great trade climate.

 

Its either this or a trade or AP.   One of the three.   He’s saving cap space for something .... my only worry - and this could really screw us - is if he buckles under fan or ownership pressure and gets guy in with term that aren’t tradeable (again) and come at a premium.    Barrie is gone (thank god!).  TT is still floating around ... Hoffman at a good price might be ok - or he might be LE 2.0....well any of these guys past 30 could be that.   Ekblad is my preferred target ... yes it would cost us BB or maybe even Horvat, but have to pay to play.   AP would nice too but think that’s a pipe dream.   If St Louis offered him all these deals and he said no to each one, his ask must be enormous.   Can’t compete with 8 years of guaranteed money the same as you can with 7.   Perhaps he’s going to be the loser in the end but at least CLB and Vegas have made contracts for him and expect quite a few others too.   Aside from Markstrom he’s one guy who’s going to cash in huge.

 

Whatever is going to happen is going to take time.   A “re-set” for sure is the best path going forward - I have the stomach for it, but losing Tanev must be putting the screws to JB plan so far.   OEL could still work, but now that JM is gone I doubt for a minute JB would go back and say yes to taking Demko. 

[-DLC-]

I'd like options in between "great/not great".  

 

He's somewhere in the  middle but I feel he finally has a clearer picture of this team and what's needed moving forward.  That the main players are in place and we now have to fill the gaps....as tough as that appears to be at the moment.

[Pete M]

If you call managing the cap by saying "we have no cap issues" great.....then you would call him great.

 

He is not great.

[vannuck59]

11 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

In regards to the lack of activity from JB, part of me wants to theorize here.  I wonder if JB chooses not to do much in order to save cap and posture this team for the following expansion draft and find a way to capitalize on a team who is facing a hard decision on a few players.  Considering that this season is already up in the air and with a condensed schedule, he figures that it could be a wash of a season, so give some time to developing the prospects and young players to see who he wants to keep and leverage as assets.

 

Does JB and his management have enough foresight for this?  Not that I'm saying this is why JB has been quiet as a mouse in the offseason so far, but part of me wonders if he is intentionally being quiet to let the dust settle and allow him to observe and see which team he can target going forward. 

 

 

JB is not that smart.  I think he is all in on AP to the tune 10.5 million for 7 years. The problem is Petro wants to go to Vegas waiting for them to clear space and will not pick Vancouver but JB is dreaming again and wont wake up until its too late.

[DeltaSwede]

In all honesty, it's not looking good at all right now but it's also super early. I've got a lot of faith in our management group and I think they'll continue to be one of the most active teams in terms of trade calls. We kinda s**t the bed in free agency if things remain the way they are right now but I was also happy to "miss out" on Barrie and Shattenkirk. 

 

My initial reaction on the Holtby signing was very positive even though I knew then that Marky wasn't staying. The deal and the situation it creates is ideal for the future of this team. We are good in goal still and I seriously think Demko is the real deal. He's just gotten better every single step of the way. Split the net next season and then move on to a 60/40 type split with whoever is the better goalie. 

 

I think the Canucks will take a serious look at signing Travis Hamonic to replace Stecher on that bottom pairing. Just my gut feeling and looking at the market of what's available. But the Canucks also need to get rid of some cap and that's really what I am actually concerned about. 

 

JB needs to somehow trade Brandon Sutter without giving up Hoglander, Podkolzin, or Rathbone. I wonder if Mike DiPietro could interest some teams as the add on but he wouldn't come alone either, it would have to be a draft pick as well. Sutter, Dipietro and a 2022 2nd round pick to Detroit for a 2021 5th round pick. Detroit need centers and they also could use a very good goalie prospect in their system. 

 

There are just so many avenues this can go down that it's impossible to judge JB right now because he's not exactly finished.

 

If this ends up going belly up I would be very surprised if JB remains as GM of this team past this next year. Hoping management manages to fill in the blanks on the roster for next year but yea it's concerning when our defensive core could look like this: 

 

Hughes - Myers

Edler - Juolevi

Benn - Chatfield

Rafferty

 

Go out and grab a young RHD via trade somehow without losing a significant roster piece is going to be very very difficult and that concerns me. 

[steviewonder20]

12 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

In all honesty, it's not looking good at all right now but it's also super early. I've got a lot of faith in our management group and I think they'll continue to be one of the most active teams in terms of trade calls. We kinda s**t the bed in free agency if things remain the way they are right now but I was also happy to "miss out" on Barrie and Shattenkirk. 

 

My initial reaction on the Holtby signing was very positive even though I knew then that Marky wasn't staying. The deal and the situation it creates is ideal for the future of this team. We are good in goal still and I seriously think Demko is the real deal. He's just gotten better every single step of the way. Split the net next season and then move on to a 60/40 type split with whoever is the better goalie. 

 

I think the Canucks will take a serious look at signing Travis Hamonic to replace Stecher on that bottom pairing. Just my gut feeling and looking at the market of what's available. But the Canucks also need to get rid of some cap and that's really what I am actually concerned about. 

 

JB needs to somehow trade Brandon Sutter without giving up Hoglander, Podkolzin, or Rathbone. I wonder if Mike DiPietro could interest some teams as the add on but he wouldn't come alone either, it would have to be a draft pick as well. Sutter, Dipietro and a 2022 2nd round pick to Detroit for a 2021 5th round pick. Detroit need centers and they also could use a very good goalie prospect in their system. 

 

There are just so many avenues this can go down that it's impossible to judge JB right now because he's not exactly finished.

 

If this ends up going belly up I would be very surprised if JB remains as GM of this team past this next year. Hoping management manages to fill in the blanks on the roster for next year but yea it's concerning when our defensive core could look like this: 

 

Hughes - Myers

Edler - Juolevi

Benn - Chatfield

Rafferty

 

Go out and grab a young RHD via trade somehow without losing a significant roster piece is going to be very very difficult and that concerns me. 

It’s rumoured in one article I read this morning that Barrie may have turned down 6 million from Vancouver to get 3.75 million and play in Edmonton! Then Stecher signs in Detroit for less than the QO we refused to give him. The obsession with landing OEL and ignoring our UFAs (Markstrom, TT and Tanev) probably pi**ed them off. Now we either have to over pay for a RHD or have an even worse D next year. Why wasn’t even one of our 4 anchor contracts bought out? GM of the year? Nah.

Edited October 11, 2020 by steviewonder20

[Lazurus]

16 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

They way you’re framing the past 5 years is shared by a few people but I can’t wrap my head around it.

What is a GM's job? What is goal of the team? How is a team measured?

I know I cherry picked a single sentence because it loses context but you mean in the positive for Benning.

Just look at the past standings and what do they tell you? Look at the team's history.

 

 

 

[Lazurus]

1 hour ago, steviewonder20 said:

It’s rumoured in one article I read this morning that Barrie may have turned down 6 million from Vancouver to get 3.75 million and play in Edmonton! Then Stecher signs in Detroit for less than the QO we refused to give him. The obsession with landing OEL and ignoring our UFAs (Markstrom, TT and Tanev) probably pi**ed them off. Now we either have to over pay for a RHD or have an even worse D next year. Why wasn’t even one of our 4 anchor contracts bought out? GM of the year? Nah.

A better question is Were ANY of the anchor contracted players asked to waive their clause or provide a list?

I doubt it, they are al here to retire now in this country club

Bogosian signed for a mil.

 

Vancouver is a laughed at now.

Embarassing!

Edited October 11, 2020 by Lazurus

[Viper007]

41 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

A better question is Were ANY of the anchor contracted players asked to waive their clause or provide a list?

I doubt it, they are al here to retire now in this country club

Bogosian signed for a mil.

 

Vancouver is a laughed at now.

Embarassing!

Really?  Because according to JB, Agents called him to ask if they'd be a fit on the team.  Vancouver is a destination a lot of players are looking at.  They see what the Canucks are building towards.

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

What is a GM's job? What is goal of the team? How is a team measured?

I know I cherry picked a single sentence because it loses context but you mean in the positive for Benning.

Just look at the past standings and what do they tell you? Look at the team's history.

This kind of highlights a point I’ve believed for awhile... 

 

The narrative on Gillis was explaining the things he did to preside over a powerhouse.  Since the by and far largest reasons weren’t his, he received a lot of press for sleep doctors and capology. I give the guy full credit for what he did - but IMO the job was to polish up a Lamborghini.

 

Conversely, JB inherited 3 wheels and a rusted out chassis. He had a few spare parts past their best before date to sell.  The narrative has been “why is this team so bad” and every move he made that didn’t pan out gets overblown.   I firmly believe we came by those terrible years honestly. 

Edited October 11, 2020 by ilduce39