Why are we never in on top free agents? Toffoli gone to Montreal. Our group going forward.

[appleboy]

We have the young talent to attract top players. Lots of players would love to play with Hughes and Pete.

We don't have the cash and won't for two years.

LE -     6 MIL

LOU -    3 MIL

BAER-   3.37 MIL

FERLAND - 3.5  MIL

SPOONER - 1 MIL

 

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I think it’s more frustrating when teams like Tampa and Vegas who are already talented can continue to go get top players either through trade or free agency and we always seem to have an excuse as to why we can’t. They never seem to have those excuses and they have very smart and aggressive GMs. That’s what gets me upset at trade deadlines and free agency. It just seems we are always one step behind or stuck under badly spent money.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Canuckfanforlife82

[appleboy]

8 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I think it’s more frustrating when teams like Tampa and Vegas who are already talented can continue to go get top players either through trade or free agency and we always seem to have an excuse as to why we can’t. They never seem to have those excuses and they have very smart and aggressive GMs. That’s what gets me upset at trade deadlines and free agency. It just seems we are always one step behind or stuck under badly spent money.

They manage their cap. When they wanted to clear some space for a deal they had a solid player that was moveable. 

No one wants LE, Baer , Ferland and the other 4 mil is what it is. We are stuck with it.

[IBatch]

On 10/13/2020 at 5:10 PM, Drywaller joe said:

I just heard on the radio tofoli saying he wanted to spend the rest of his career here they didn’t even talk to him they pissed away the assets to get him and by the time they circled around to talk to him his deal with Montreal was done.

 If he been healthy we could’ve seen what a difference maker he truly was in the playoffs it might’ve got us to the conference final And farther in the playoffs you need heroes and difference makers and he was that.  i’m disgusted I’ve seen enough.  teams that are crappy for a number of years get top picks and good players a third grader can GM their way to make that happen Ben and get zero credit for this all he gets credit for is a series of choking moves and incompetence

 Somebody tell me one GM in our history that has made more bad moves and bungles than this ass clown It’s like that is his greatest talent if you look at the history of him being here. get him gone before it’s too late and we waste the careers of these good young players we have

Ahh back to bash Benning.   Quin and Burke has their fair share of bungles too, aside from mediocre at best drafting records.   Burke for the life of him couldn’t put a second scoring line together or replace Cloutier.   Quin was at the helm when the greatest roster we ever had imploded, Bure and Ronning key ones, as was Gretzky- instead a year later we got Messier yeah! and then the fun really began.     Wonder if in ten years JB will be considered the best GM ever - is so would be funny to re-visit some of these threads.    Not a lot of patience for a re-build in some of this group.    Going to enjoy Yzerman “blunders “, like Gagne and the rest of the expansion team he’s assembling, under the old rules though ha ha.   Biggest mistake was timing his deals and LE.    Half come off this year, the other half a year later.   For those clamouring for cap dumps to sign whatever shinny toy now wonder if they even consider we need two forwards we have to expose that meet the NHL requirements - as of now that’s Roussel and Beagle - if we don’t have those guys then we’d have to expose JV or AG or both.   Or that we’d be using cap space up early to add another D we can’t protect as it is now either.  
 

 

[Lazurus]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:02 PM, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I know we are strapped by the cap but it always seems as though we are never in on big deals or big free agents and when we are we overpay or give up too much. Las Vegas for example seems to have no problem at all making trades or signing  big name players. It just gets frustrating to hear excuse after excuse we have no money. That tells me Benning doesn’t know how to manage the cap. Remember when Benning said this “We are in a good position, where free agents want to come here.” Well where are they? Lol. He got one free agent to come here. One more thing, I have heard how we can trade but honestly what assets do we have to trade? We really don’t have an abundance of prospects or assets like Tampa Bay has to be trading. So I don’t see that avenue unless I am missing something. I don’t want them to give up Rathbone for an older player. I just think they are screwed because they have spent the most in the league on their bottom two lines 23 million. It’s insane and it has put us in a spot where their hands are tied but that is on the GM. It’s 6 years with Benning at the helm and we took a big step forward but now are going to take a step back. It doesn’t make sense. How many more years does Benning get? That’s a long time for a GM. They are honestly talking about Virtanen and Baertchi that’s how bad it is. I just don’t think there is a quick fix for this year so that’s what makes it disappointing. Thoughts anyone? As I wrote this Toffoli is gone. You can’t sign your own free agents and you have assets for nothing. 17 games. Wow!

The team used to be, under Gillis they got the top UFAs, traded 2nrd picks for players that were top players on other team and a bag of pucks for Erhoff.

 

A reason is that Benning capped out the team every year and gave out clause contracts to bottom players, not many career 3rd or 4th liners got clause contracts in the league

 

It is also the personality of the GM, Bergevin wants and needs a winner, he doesn't get married to his players, if he needs to move the best player to improve, then he does. Benning is a nice guy that is too much a player still, he has not traded any of the players he has signed with the exception of Vrbata who asked and given out 7 "retirement" contracts, high priced contracts with clauses and term to older players. Hence they hired Gear and his impact has been diminished due to the flat cap and covid, actually the beneifits of his hire have been reduced and the effects magnified.

 

Now the team has to pay for itself, can't burn 10 million dollars a year anymore

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, appleboy said:

They manage their cap. When they wanted to clear some space for a deal they had a solid player that was moveable. 

No one wants LE, Baer , Ferland and the other 4 mil is what it is. We are stuck with it.

TB is the new CHI or Detroit.   Such a wealth in riches they can afford to keep recycling players, all get team friendly tax sheltered deals - which works out to an extra 500k on 5 million guys in club savings compared to the rest of the league (MTL might get criticized for their deals but they are at the very bottom of the tax pile with NYR and the CALI teams)  and super-stars take 1-2 less then market value, but make the same regardless.   Funny enough Tavares who turned down 13 in SJ, makes close to the same with his TO deal.   It’s a dead horse I won’t stop beating.    Vegas, TB, Florida and Dallas can get guys signed for less ... of these teams TB for sure does it best though.   Factually they are the best drafting teams the past 5-7 years.    They just won the cup without Stamkos ha ha, and like Vegas their aren’t any passengers throughout their lineups.  
 

Their top nine can all play top six, and well.   Just like Vegas too. 
 

JB days of having to pay extra to attract bottom six UFAs are over finally.   Thank god.   Detroit who’s been rebuilding just as long as us is re-doing it again.   Thank god it’s not us, and curiously Yzerman is doing the exact same thing JB did - as in finding players to “ice a competitive team”, by now all of us should realize that’s code for “tank and draft more players”.    Gagne and Stecher and Staal so far.    Sieder and Zadina aren’t ready yet.  Larkin is their Horvat.   Nobody is safe on that team.   
 

Anyone complaining still about Gagne, Del Zotto and company as blunders, terrible signings, gaffes or whatever isn’t thinking about the big picture.   The big picture was supposed to be this year we evolved.   One year early isn’t a problem,  neither was 17 playoff games for the core - that’s worth Madden and a pick for sure.    TT was never coming back.    JB decided to keep JV, a modest risk. 
 

He can also afford to juggle one more thing and add Hoffman.   Maybe that’s his plan but personally I hope not and doubt it.     Team played just fine without TT, he won a game for us though which was nice.   Markstrom was never the long term plan which IMO was exactly what I hoped.   Doubt he’s going to keep it up unless Clark sings there too in a couple years and even then that’s too much term and money.   Tanev sucked.   Schmidt is a big upgrade according to virtually every expert so will have to believe them.   Holtby is perfect - either him or MAF, we got our guy and he wants to be here.   
 

And finally again we have to provide two forwards signed and who played enough games.   Right now that’s Beagle and Roussel.   Unless you guys are ok with losing AG, JV or Motte.   I’m not.    One defense the same goes but one guy.  At this point it’s Myers or Schmidt.   See us re-upping Benn for a year or signing a bottom pairing RHD to fit the bill.  Ceci or Vantanen.    Then his off season is complete.  
 

Our real window is when QHs and EP are on their second contracts.   Out of curiousity, does anyone know which team won a cup with their next cores stars on their ELCs since the cap?....

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Our real window is when QHs and EP are on their second contracts.   Out of curiousity, does anyone know which team won a cup with their next cores stars on their ELCs since the cap?....

 

Were Crosby and Malkin on their ELCs for the first Cup?  I'm guessing that or Toews & Kane.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

The team used to be, under Gillis they got the top UFAs, traded 2nrd picks for players that were top players on other team and a bag of pucks for Erhoff.

 

A reason is that Benning capped out the team every year and gave out clause contracts to bottom players, not many career 3rd or 4th liners got clause contracts in the league

 

It is also the personality of the GM, Bergevin wants and needs a winner, he doesn't get married to his players, if he needs to move the best player to improve, then he does. Benning is a nice guy that is too much a player still, he has not traded any of the players he has signed with the exception of Vrbata who asked and given out 7 "retirement" contracts, high priced contracts with clauses and term to older players. Hence they hired Gear and his impact has been diminished due to the flat cap and covid, actually the beneifits of his hire have been reduced and the effects magnified.

 

Now the team has to pay for itself, can't burn 10 million dollars a year anymore

The re-tool was inevitable, wasn’t his players he was working with that had those clauses.   We are just lucky he managed to draft a team otherwise we’d be like Detroit and starting all over with a new GM.   Holland was considered the best for two decades but couldn’t do a rebuild well.   Now he’s in EDM, and Yzerman who much like MG was gifted a great team - will for sure lose some lustre re-re re-building Detroit handing out contracts to guys like ... Gagne ha ha.    Which 7 players with clauses are you talking about anyways?  Which one had a full NMC?  Edler?  Ha ha.   Best three years he’s had since his first three years.   

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Were Crosby and Malkin on their ELCs for the first Cup?  I'm guessing that or Toews & Kane.

Not Crosby/PIT, CHI did with Toews his final year though. And the only other team to did it was CAR with Staal and Ward.   That’s it.

In other words it’s extremely difficult to win a cup with the next cores stars on their ELCs.   We could IF Podz turns into a star - but not a chance we win this year. 

[Davathor]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, Phil_314 said:

I just wish they hadn't pissed off Baertschi (or he hadn't pissed off their staff such that they wouldn't play him); there was a Tweet that came out recently that said that was what had happened, and if only they could mend bridges with him then they would have a fill-in that they could recoup value for, but that's probably too far gone.

 

Beartchi was never, and never will be the answer in our top 6... Or 9 for that matter.

[oldnews]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, Phil_314 said:

I just wish they hadn't pissed off Baertschi (or he hadn't pissed off their staff such that they wouldn't play him); there was a Tweet that came out recently that said that was what had happened, and if only they could mend bridges with him then they would have a fill-in that they could recoup value for, but that's probably too far gone.

Oh - if you heard it in a tweet....then who can argue with that?

 

Which player would Baertschi represent an 'upgrade' on in their respective roles?

Pettersson

Pearson

Roussel

Motte

?

Where was Baertschi supposed to play?

Baertschi was never the hardest guy on the puck - has never been characterized as hard to play against, or particularly notable in his battle levels.  He was a good potential middle six when he was healthy and had somewhat overcome his timidity - however, unfortunately, along with that added aggressiveness to his game came a string of concussions....I feel for him - he's talented and had he remained healthy, he's probably a 20 goal scorer somewhere - but the reality is that there is not fit for him on this team and it doesn't have to come down to tweet-stories about people being 'pissed off' with each other.

[CallAfterLife]

21 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I think it’s more frustrating when teams like Tampa and Vegas who are already talented can continue to go get top players either through trade or free agency and we always seem to have an excuse as to why we can’t. They never seem to have those excuses and they have very smart and aggressive GMs. That’s what gets me upset at trade deadlines and free agency. It just seems we are always one step behind or stuck under badly spent money.

Tampa and Vegas can wheel and deal during the trade deadline and free agency because they have assets to burn. The Canucks haven't fully recovered form the years of dead end prospects under Gillis. 

 

Tampa is one of the top organizations when it comes to drafting. Take a look at their draft history and you'll see that they've usually had at least 6+ draft picks every year. They may have had some years with filled with major busts but then they have monster years where they draft 2 or more NHL players. With that kind of depth they aren't afraid to add sweeteners to get the kind of players they need to stay in contention. Just take a look at how they brought in JT Miller and Ryan McMcDonagh from the Rangers. They've also been pretty successful at identifying good talent to trade for. They traded for Ben Bishop and then they traded him for Eric Cernak. Drouin for Sergachev. Coburn for picks. Plus they aren't afraid to deal roster players for extra picks. All of this was possible because they had strong core pieces that they've kept together. 

 

Vegas had a great expansion draft where they negotiated with teams for extra picks in exchange for not selecting certain roster players. They had so many assets in the beginning that they could afford to trade for better pieces to stay competitive. They were able to bring in Max Pacioretty in exchange for Nick Suzuki. Mark Stone in exchange for Erik Brannstrom. 

 

The Canucks are able to attract players though. When the Canucks traded for JT Miller he said that Vancouver was one of his favourite cities. OEL wanted to come here. Braden Holtby chose to sign here. Nate Schmidt had a 10 team no trade list and Vancouver wasn't on it. Just last summer Tyler Myers and Michael Ferland chose to sign in Vancouver. Just because the Canucks have had a quiet UFA period this year it doesn't mean that the city is somehow one the blacklist of most UFAs. 

 

9 hours ago, IBatch said:

Our real window is when QHs and EP are on their second contracts.   Out of curiousity, does anyone know which team won a cup with their next cores stars on their ELCs since the cap?....

I think the 2006 Carolina Hurricanes. Cam Ward was a first year backup and played lights out in the playoffs. Eric Staal was on his ELC when he scored 100 points and was Carolina's leading playoff scorer in 2006. I think Justin Williams was on a really cheap secondary contract that year though. 

 

I think Malkin was still on his ELC when Pittsburg won in 2009. I'm pretty sure Jordan Staal and Kris Letang were also on ELC's that year. Crosby might have just signed his second contract. I'm not 100% sure. 

 

I think the Canucks are in a position to be like the LA Kings when they won their cups in 2012 and 2014. With some core pieces in their early 30s like Justin Williams and Marian Gaborik, some pieces in their to mid late 20s like Dustin Brown, Jonathan Quick, Drew Doughty, Jake Muzzin, Anze Kopitar and Jeff Carter and some pieces on their early twenties like Tanner Pearson and Tyler Toffoli. 

Edited October 16, 2020 by CallAfterLife

[fanfor42]

I was sorry to see Toffoli go.  But upon reflection the reason JB passed on him was he chose Virt and Gaud .

 

People need to understand we can't take away Petey and Quinn and Demko money to sign Toffoli.  That means you can't use Sutter or pearson or Baetschi money this year to sign Toffpoli cuz it leave us short next year for petey Quinn and Demko. To say that another way we can't spend next year's cap savings this year or it causes a problem signing the guys we have to have for the future.

 

That is the reason Toff was let walk. Crappy but in the long run it is the right choice.

 

 

 

 

[Googlie]

9 hours ago, oldnews said:

 

Where was Baertschi supposed to play?

Baertschi was never the hardest guy on the puck - has never been characterized as hard to play against, or particularly notable in his battle levels.  He was a good potential middle six when he was healthy and had somewhat overcome his timidity - however, unfortunately, along with that added aggressiveness to his game came a string of concussions....I feel for him - he's talented and had he remained healthy, he's probably a 20 goal scorer somewhere - but the reality is that there is not fit for him on this team and it doesn't have to come down to tweet-stories about people being 'pissed off' with each other.

THW disagrees..... .see:

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-baertschi-nhl-time-deserved-2019-20

[LateNightBus]

On 10/13/2020 at 6:39 PM, Schmautzie said:

Speaking of not making sense what does that question mean?

 

I think what you’re asking is why would I lose confidence in Benning only a week into free agency?  It’s because he lost Markstrom, Tanev, Stecher, and Toffoli and only added Holtby. The Schmidt trade has restored my faith in JB somewhat but I still wish he had found a way to keep Toffoli.

I have not been here that much, but still follow the Canucks. I don't think Benning lost Markstrom, he did not offer a long enough term, Benning was swayed by what he had with Demko. Getting Holtby was very lucky; Tanev was a similar decision, Benning wanted a shorter term and Tanev took the best offer.Stecher is sort of a sad case but i guess Hockey requirements can be brutal. What Benning can do is use his upcoming young players, and send Erikssen to Utica?

[iceman64]

On 10/12/2020 at 11:51 AM, Phil_314 said:

Be happy you're not an Oilers fan, they only made the playoffs once in 15 years after reaching the Cup final in 2005-06.

He forgets the joke of a team we had after 2012 onward.. just a good seasonal team that never made it far and had next to zero depth.. and a core that was broken after Boston beat us up.. pretty thankful there's only Eddie left from that era.

 Everyone like to blame the current guy when the previous guy left next to zero to build on except for aging players with ntc's that weren't really mentoring anyone to speak of as the draft cupboard had be sold dry for so long that many of us here have never seen much success farm wise, let alone it being ranked in the top 3 I think it was lately, but this is a real team for a change with guys about to be brought in to take roster spots which is fairly rare here but scarcely believable actually, a nice change but people can stop thinking the sky is falling because it's clearly not, we just have a couple more seasons before our window is right there with a good shot and not a fluke season success but built over the long haul..

 We're due, has it been easy along the way? Nope but freaking out over the past and it's failures hardly helps, but a cautious hope, nothing wrong with that...

[King Heffy]

14 minutes ago, iceman64 said:

He forgets the joke of a team we had after 2012 onward.. just a good seasonal team that never made it far and had next to zero depth.. and a core that was broken after Boston beat us up.. pretty thankful there's only Eddie left from that era.

 Everyone like to blame the current guy when the previous guy left next to zero to build on except for aging players with ntc's that weren't really mentoring anyone to speak of as the draft cupboard had be sold dry for so long that many of us here have never seen much success farm wise, let alone it being ranked in the top 3 I think it was lately, but this is a real team for a change with guys about to be brought in to take roster spots which is fairly rare here but scarcely believable actually, a nice change but people can stop thinking the sky is falling because it's clearly not, we just have a couple more seasons before our window is right there with a good shot and not a fluke season success but built over the long haul..

 We're due, has it been easy along the way? Nope but freaking out over the past and it's failures hardly helps, but a cautious hope, nothing wrong with that...

Even the biggest Benning hater has to admit he's left the team in a better spot than he found it.  The expensive bottom six were supposed to tide us over until the team got good; the reason it's a problem is because the kids exceeded expectations and carried the team.  Nice problem to have.

[iceman64]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Even the biggest Benning hater has to admit he's left the team in a better spot than he found it.  The expensive bottom six were supposed to tide us over until the team got good; the reason it's a problem is because the kids exceeded expectations and carried the team.  Nice problem to have.

That's about it in a nutshell, I've tried to explain that numerous times to people but some just don't get it.. why? I have no idea.. well wait, I do know it's a bit to do with the media that didn't get it either, ok most, not all but good observation, encouraging to know that not all people miss it..

[oldnews]

12 hours ago, Googlie said:

THW disagrees..... .see:

 

https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-baertschi-nhl-time-deserved-2019-20

LOL.

The Hockey Writerz.

Anyone can publish!!

[apollo]

This has the be one of the worst posts I've seen... 

 

Top free agents are constantly flocking to Vancouver... This is the best city in the NHL by far and we've never had a shortage of talent coming in. 

 

Vezina winner holtby ring a bell? 

Vezina goalie Ryan Miller? 

Myers was top dman available last year other than EK65 who destroyed SJ with his extension and he wasn't  a real UFA 

 

Toffoli Marky Tanev all would have took the same deal in Vancouver in a heart beat. Why? Because this city doesn't suck for raising a family and we have a better chance to win than mtl or Calgary. 

 

But you know what? Our GM decided we wanted to go a diff direction and didn't match those deals 

 

Not gonna waste my time further on this. What a terrible post (no offense) 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by apollo