The Lock Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said: Treatment costs on a junkie with high potential of relapse to that of a very risky stock with high potential of falling in the toilet for example, yes, they're both a huge gamble. If they have enough money to invest in that stock in the first place, it's not really comparable to a junkie who can't do that. One is potentially vital to the survival of the junkie while the other shouldn't be (again, assuming they're investing in stocks because they have the money to spare). Simply put, one has my sympathy, the other does not. Edited June 14, 2020 by The Lock 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: I, too, feel this way. This is a "large gathering" beyond what is recommended for group settings. Not sure why we can't have measures in place to ensure protests are done "safely". It's just not sitting well with me. I'm not sure how health officials can continue to say outdoor events are a health risk to public safety if people keep gathering in the hundreds/thousands to protest with no significant spikes in cases. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skategal Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 26 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: It's just not sitting well with me. I'm not sure how health officials can continue to say outdoor events are a health risk to public safety if people keep gathering in the hundreds/thousands to protest with no significant spikes in cases. We may well see increases in size for outdoor events in Phase 3 if there aren't any increasing infection rates. I think Phase 3 is to be announced this coming week if all goes well. I don't think anyone was encouraging the mass protests and Dr. Henry was pretty clear that she wasn't happy about it. However, I agree with others that given the emotion around the issues, not the hill I'd want to charge in terms of trying to shut down the protests. That would have likely caused rioting which we're kind of known for anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 6 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: One thing that really bothers me that I'm having a hard time reconciling is the obvious contradiction between the COVID restrictions on people in groups and the mass gatherings/protests we've seen. So, this is the message I'm seeing out of this ... that it's ok to gather outside in large groups as long as it's a protest for social justice ... yet all other outdoor event for 2020 must be cancelled. I have zero issues with protesting or the right to protest. None. I care about the issues we face and the need for change. These protests are important and we need that aspect of society to thrive. I do, however, take issue with restrictions on mass gatherings, outdoor events being cancelled for the remainder of the year, businesses going under and livelihoods being ruined when those same restrictions don't apply to people gathering to protest in the hundreds and thousands. Especially if we don't see spikes or increases in cases. I can't be the only one who sees this or feels this way. My wedding was supposed to be today and i was supposed to go to vegas tomorrow for a vacation and first honeymoon. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, stawns said: The context being it's not like protestors are going to a store, concert etc. They don't have "permission" to protest. Thanks for clarifying. That's what I thought you meant. Well, they don't have "official permission" but they do have "social permission" that's more mainstream than ever before. It's unseen social currency/permission within a worthy fight for justice that's permissible. The thing is ... some of the online community groups I belong to now have things like "protest kits", "protest with a buddy" and "protest checklists" of essentials to bring to the event ... ie: Make sure you bring bottled water, your masks, foldable chairs, food, signage, umbrella, etc ... it's gone so mainstream now that it's no different than going to an outdoor concert or festival. Like I said above, I don't see how health officials can continue to prevent other outdoor events and say they pose a risk to public safety meanwhile people are organizing and gathering to protest by the thousands. If we don't see significant increases in cases as a result of these gatherings, at some point you have addess the contradiction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 22 minutes ago, skategal said: We may well see increases in size for outdoor events in Phase 3 if there aren't any increasing infection rates. I think Phase 3 is to be announced this coming week if all goes well. I don't think anyone was encouraging the mass protests and Dr. Henry was pretty clear that she wasn't happy about it. However, I agree with others that given the emotion around the issues, not the hill I'd want to charge in terms of trying to shut down the protests. That would have likely caused rioting which we're kind of known for anyway True. We may very well see spikes as a result. It'll be interesting to see. In no way am I saying to shut down the protests. That's not what I'm saying. Also, I'm not saying anyone was encouraging the protests either. A lot of businesses and livelihoods have been hurt by the cancellation of many outdoor events in all of 2020 in the name of safety to prevent people from gathering by the thousands. Obviously it was all done to err on the side of caution but I'd like to see health officials address this if we don't see those spikes. Who knows ... the protests may be the unforeseen experiment that shows large outdoor gatherings are okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, Violator said: My wedding was supposed to be today and i was supposed to go to vegas tomorrow for a vacation and first honeymoon. Sorry to hear. That's tough. I hope it's all working out. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Wilbur said: The message from BC (at least that I heard), was that IF you felt compelled to protest, please maintain social distancing. Obviously most didn't, to the surprise of nobody. But like @gurnsaid, if police came out to crack down on social distancing measures at the protest things probably would've gotten messy and even more harm would've been done. We'll see how these protests change (or don't change) the numbers. Towards the end of this week things were trending the wrong way in BC. Hopefully that was a blip and not the start of a trend back up. Numbers in the USA seem to be on the arise again too. I don't think I gave enough detail in my originsl post. It's the contradiction of it all that bothers me. The macro of it all rather than the micro. I'm not expecting social distancing measures to be enforced at a protest ... that's completely unrealistic ... nor would I want to see police crack down on the protests. I'm just starting to question the restrictions on outdoor events, festivals, etc, now that we're seeing people gather by the thousands. At the moment, it seems like without consequence. And if there aren't spikes in cases, I'd like for our health officials to address it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) Oh my God. So the new thing in Ontario is you can build a bubble of ten people. It’s Saturday in Toronto. They’re taking it as; you can now form parties of ten people max. Its gonna get real ugly. Anyways here’s the news: Ontario allows expanded social bubbles. Here's how to create your circle Here's how to create your social circle: Step 1: Start with your current circle. These include the people you live with or who regularly come into your household. Step 2: If your current circle is under 10 people, you can add members to your circle, including another household, family members or friends. Step 3: Get agreement from everyone that they will join the circle. Step 4: Keep your social circle safe. Maintain physical distancing with anyone outside of your circle. Step 5: Be true to your circle. No one should be part of more than one circle. Edited June 14, 2020 by Me_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 18 hours ago, Templeton Peck said: Then have a dog run in, eat some then trample through it, spread it everywhere, poop on the carpet and bite everyone before he leaves. That's my life right now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -DLC- Posted June 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2020 16 hours ago, Me_ said: Oh my God. So the new thing in Ontario is you can build a bubble of ten people. It’s Saturday in Toronto. They’re taking it as; you can now form parties of ten people max. Its gonna get real ugly. Anyways here’s the news: Ontario allows expanded social bubbles. Here's how to create your circle Here's how to create your social circle: Step 1: Start with your current circle. These include the people you live with or who regularly come into your household. Step 2: If your current circle is under 10 people, you can add members to your circle, including another household, family members or friends. Step 3: Get agreement from everyone that they will join the circle. Step 4: Keep your social circle safe. Maintain physical distancing with anyone outside of your circle. Step 5: Be true to your circle. No one should be part of more than one circle. What people are conveniently overlooking is anything past Step 2 and the parts where your bubble is all supposed to have a pact that protects everyone. If someone in the bubble is letting their guard down, it brings risk to the group. A bunch of bro's and their .... girls at the beach don't really provide any confidence that they're implementing #5. I've had to disconnect from my brother for the time being as we don't share the same views on things and his bubble includes guys that he takes out fishing (leisure) who really he has no idea about outside of that. One being a guy who appears to not care about COVID ... sneers at people wearing masks, etc., so is a high risk to all of us by way of contact with my brother. It's not just who you include, it's their behaviours that people have to consider. Even within our group (me, Dad, my kids and, until recently, my brother)....we're still meeting outside (weather is great, so why not?) or wearing masks indoors. Better safe than sorry in protecting each other. It's a pain, yes...but well worth the effort. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: What people are conveniently overlooking is anything past Step 2 and the parts where your bubble is all supposed to have a pact that protects everyone. If someone Even within our group (me, Dad, my kids and, until recently, my brother)....we're still meeting outside (weather is great, so why not?) or wearing masks indoors. Better safe than sorry in protecting each other. It's a pain, yes...but well worth the effort. Why do you worry about your bubble Deb.... Horgan and Dr. Bonnie have BC teachers back in the classroom now. My neighbour sees 10 kids M/T and a different 10 kids on T/Fr. So at least 20 different kids per week. Let say each of these kids has 10 family/friends in their bubble... So my neighbours bubble is now over 200 people..... not including the people she lives with... Sick kids are sent home but allowed back the next day... No temperature testing done. No masks required. Horgan seems to think this is fine... Dr. Bonnie says my teacher neighbour and the kids should not even bother wearing masks...... and that the virus does not really spread with kids... Yah, strange how an entire class of kids in Quebec is now covid positive.... I guess Horgan just ignores facts that don't allign with his narrative..... The problem in BC we have is that our leaders here dropped the ball about a month ago and have given people false sense of security..... Edited June 14, 2020 by kingofsurrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post RUPERTKBD Posted June 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wloutet Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 When the COVID-19 hits, and you have time on your hands, this is what you do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 16 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Thanks for clarifying. That's what I thought you meant. Well, they don't have "official permission" but they do have "social permission" that's more mainstream than ever before. It's unseen social currency/permission within a worthy fight for justice that's permissible. The thing is ... some of the online community groups I belong to now have things like "protest kits", "protest with a buddy" and "protest checklists" of essentials to bring to the event ... ie: Make sure you bring bottled water, your masks, foldable chairs, food, signage, umbrella, etc ... it's gone so mainstream now that it's no different than going to an outdoor concert or festival. Like I said above, I don't see how health officials can continue to prevent other outdoor events and say they pose a risk to public safety meanwhile people are organizing and gathering to protest by the thousands. If we don't see significant increases in cases as a result of these gatherings, at some point you have addess the contradiction. not arguing that, at all. I absolutely support the cause and people's right to protest, and my own daughter attended the Vancouver rally..........but I absolutely don't think it's a good idea in a pandemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Why do you worry about your bubble Deb.... Horgan and Dr. Bonnie have BC teachers back in the classroom now. My neighbour sees 10 kids M/T and a different 10 kids on T/Fr. So at least 20 different kids per week. Let say each of these kids has 10 family/friends in their bubble... So my neighbours bubble is now over 200 people..... not including the people she lives with... Sick kids are sent home but allowed back the next day... No temperature testing done. No masks required. Horgan seems to think this is fine... Dr. Bonnie says my teacher neighbour and the kids should not even bother wearing masks...... and that the virus does not really spread with kids... Yah, strange how an entire class of kids in Quebec is now covid positive.... I guess Horgan just ignores facts that don't allign with his narrative..... The problem in BC we have is that our leaders here dropped the ball about a month ago and have given people false sense of security..... I do care. And I also agree re schools and the risks involved that, really, seem to be a rush to get kids "somewhere" so parents can go back to work. Don't think it's ideal by any means. But, further to that, if I was in the position you're in....I'd just take measures to protect myself. I'd bring/wear a mask and if challenged on that, push back as a workplace safety issue. I'd have sanitizer on my desk and be washing constantly. Make the best of a situation that isn't great. I do empathize with you/teachers. I just wouldn't sit back and wait or exhaust too much energy griping as it doesn't change things...I'd do what I could to protect myself. The issue of masks has been very inconsistent....so we have to decide for ourselves in the end. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I do care. And I also agree re schools and the risks involved that, really, seem to be a rush to get kids "somewhere" so parents can go back to work. Don't think it's ideal by any means. But, further to that, if I was in the position you're in....I'd just take measures to protect myself. I'd bring/wear a mask and if challenged on that, push back as a workplace safety issue. I'd have sanitizer on my desk and be washing constantly. Make the best of a situation that isn't great. I do empathize with you/teachers. I just wouldn't sit back and wait or exhaust too much energy griping as it doesn't change things...I'd do what I could to protect myself. The issue of masks has been very inconsistent....so we have to decide for ourselves in the end. Pretty much this. Even in situations that are less than ideal, you always have a choice in how you react and take care of yourself. In the end, it's a much stronger stance to make do with what you got rather than complain about it. Not saying there isn't a place for complaining, but this falls in line with the cliche "actions speak louder than words". Edited June 14, 2020 by The Lock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) A scary example of how serious this virus is. Specifically how dangerous it is to the lungs. One of treatment of serious cases has been ECMO. In short pumping blood from somewhere else, adding oxygen then pumping it back to the lungs. Quote Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation, also known as extracorporeal life support, is an extracorporeal technique of providing prolonged cardiac and respiratory support to persons whose heart and lungs are unable to provide an adequate amount of gas exchange or perfusion to sustain life. Wikipedia one story - https://localnews8.com/health/2020/05/27/a-ventilator-wasnt-enough-to-treat-him-for-covid-19-this-machine-became-his-last-chance-for-survival/ Edited June 14, 2020 by Canada Hockey Place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I do care. And I also agree re schools and the risks involved that, really, seem to be a rush to get kids "somewhere" so parents can go back to work. Don't think it's ideal by any means. When Horgan fails at re-opening schools properly.... it just gave the whole province the green light to go back to normal and stop safe social distancing / safe behaviours / wearing masks in public. Horgan has failed to see how dangerous Covid is ... even to young people.. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/06/13/report-suggests-some-mildly-symptomatic-covid-19-patients-endure-serious-long-term-effects/#6def59d55979 Report Suggests Some ‘Mildly Symptomatic’ Covid-19 Patients Endure Serious Long-Term Effects Edited June 14, 2020 by kingofsurrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted June 14, 2020 Share Posted June 14, 2020 3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: What people are conveniently overlooking is anything past Step 2 and the parts where your bubble is all supposed to have a pact that protects everyone. If someone in the bubble is letting their guard down, it brings risk to the group. A bunch of bro's and their .... girls at the beach don't really provide any confidence that they're implementing #5. I've had to disconnect from my brother for the time being as we don't share the same views on things and his bubble includes guys that he takes out fishing (leisure) who really he has no idea about outside of that. One being a guy who appears to not care about COVID ... sneers at people wearing masks, etc., so is a high risk to all of us by way of contact with my brother. It's not just who you include, it's their behaviours that people have to consider. Even within our group (me, Dad, my kids and, until recently, my brother)....we're still meeting outside (weather is great, so why not?) or wearing masks indoors. Better safe than sorry in protecting each other. It's a pain, yes...but well worth the effort. A friend of mine brought up a really good point. he said you can’t blame the twenty year olds; they’re wired to take risks. It’s part of their genetic survival kit; a rite of passage. But the thirty year olds and up? They hold not one reason for flouting the norms. And you are absolutely right. Beyond #2, its all speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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