What Lessons Have The Habs Taught Us?

[canuckster19]

Cinderella runs almost always fall short, I don't mind the adage "just make the playoffs" because playoff experience is important. But it's also important to build a team that can consistently make the playoffs and not mortgage the future for a chance run.

[Phat Fingers]

To resign your star winger FA to a 4.5 m contract prior to trying to trade for OEL.  

[-DLC-]

4 hours ago, canuckster19 said:

Cinderella runs almost always fall short, I don't mind the adage "just make the playoffs" because playoff experience is important. But it's also important to build a team that can consistently make the playoffs and not mortgage the future for a chance run.

But that isn't as easy as it sounds...most teams ARE aiming for that but it's a recipe that's tough to get right.

 

For instance:  Tampa Bay over the past 10 years:  did not even make the playoffs 3 of those years.  Got swept by Columbus in 2018-19.  Then went on to win back to back cups.

 

Being built for the playoffs doesn't always translate to winning them...so many factors come into play.  Momentum and overall team health are huge (too).  Sure, there are teams that build a tough roster to play against but chemistry is also important.  Again, that momentum thing that can really bring a team together.

 

I do agree about mortgaging the future but you also have to take gambles and cup runs are important (too).  Because you just never know....the aim is to win "a" cup and that takes one good run.  If the aim is for consistent playoff appearances...you can really use "chance runs" to build from.

 

[Josepho]

The playoffs are an extremely small sample size and basically an unpredictable game of chance. A team typically needs really good injury luck or some random 3rd liners or goalies to go on a hot streak to win the cup. There isn't some de-facto formula to success in the playoffs and watching teams constantly try to copy specific roster configurations is always ridiculous.

 

Consistently giving yourself chances (aka playoff appearances as one of the higher seeds and top ~8 teams in the league) is the best strategy for success. Teams like TBL/WSH/BOS/STL ended up getting their cups because they have consistently pumped out competitive teams until the dice rolled in their favour. I expect Vegas to get one eventually as well for this reason. SJ is the only team that has been consistently competitive over the past ~15 years that didn't end up getting a cup.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Josepho

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 7/2/2021 at 7:55 PM, Bertuzzipunch said:

Would be a good idea to trade for a dman from them after the ED.

They're looking to compete.  That and being a division rival means you won't be getting anything decent without paying a price we can't afford to pay.

[Junkyard Dog]

Habs taught us that we need a 100M+ roster to win the cup.

[Green Building]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:01 PM, MikeyD said:

Still think it was unfair? 

Hey, butthead, you said the Habs fluked out and didn't deserve to be in the Finals. I said they did deserve to be there based on goaltending and defensive play. What's so hard about this?  

 

Hey, keep dredging up old $&!# if it makes you feel better though.

[Alflives]

Habs taught us that watching the Leafs Lose, even if it’s to the Habs, is still FUN AS HELL!!!  

[Nucker 67]

Habs taught us that this is a bad time to try and win the Cup with this Bolts dynasty making a mockery of the NHL and its cap rules.  

[lmm]

19 hours ago, canuckster19 said:

Cinderella runs almost always fall short, I don't mind the adage "just make the playoffs" because playoff experience is important. But it's also important to build a team that can consistently make the playoffs and not mortgage the future for a chance run.

I agree Cinderalla teams usually fall short

4 rounds in glass slippers is a tough gig

but they don't always fall shoirt, like StLouis and 2012 Kings

The problem with that is it give canuck fans false hope, some on this board think the 2021 canucks are the same as the 2012 Kings-- just missing out on a long playoff run.

2012 Kings over the 2021 Canucks (even Healthy) 10/10 times, its not close.

 

But the 2021 Habs were a Cindrella team, but also a team that built for the playoffs

Coaching change slowed then down for a short period in a shortened season, but they overcame that

they traded picks for depth, but not big picks- Staal for 3 +5 round picks - Merril for a 5th - Gustavson for a 7th

they also engaged in cross border shopping for all three of those players, Winnipeg is the only other Canadian team I recall trading across the 49th.

One of those 5th was traded for last season for Nate Thompson.The Habs were bad in 2020 so sold Thampson for something they could use this season

Basiically Thompson for Merril with a one year time lapse called a 5th round pick

They also added Allen (for a 3rd 2020), Edmundson (5th 2020), Perry and Toffoli last offseason who all paid dividends. Allen allowed Price to be fresh for the first 3 rounds

they traded our old buddy Wiesey + Fleishman back in 2016 for former 1st Danault + pick (Romanov). That is a trade to build for the future, that future is now

 2018 Paceoretty for Suzuki was another trade for the future

then there was the Armia trade in 2018 that must have been a cap dump  because on face value it makes no sense for the Jets, so I assume that was weaponized cap

if you go way back to 2015  they traded a 2nd +4th for Petry (then went to the 2nd round of the playoffs). That 2nd is the highest pick I can see the Habs trading away 

Signed Chariot in 2019 

So that Playoff ready Defense comes Petry 2015, Weber 2016, Romanov(pick) 2016, Chariot 2019 , Edmundson 2020, Merril 2021,Gustavson 2021

with a fair amount of depth traded for 3rd + 5th round picks, some of those picks were traded for 

 

that is how you build a Cinderalla team without mortgaging the future

Edited July 12, 2021 by lmm

[lmm]

Then I look at the Bolts

And I see Barclay Goodrow traded from San Jose in 2020 for a 1st round pick (31st)

and I wonder 

what is the difference between Barclay Goodrow and Tanner Pearson?

Pearson is 198 days older

Pearson has one Cup and Goodrow now has 2

Goodrow was traded for a first

Pearson was signed to an extension with (appearently) ED protection

 

Who would you rather be right now, Goodrow or Pearson? 

[ShawnAntoski]

On 7/11/2021 at 4:12 AM, canuckster19 said:

Cinderella runs almost always fall short, I don't mind the adage "just make the playoffs" because playoff experience is important. But it's also important to build a team that can consistently make the playoffs and not mortgage the future for a chance run.

Yeah, the Cinderella runs tends to be a momentarily blip up and a veteran GM & coaching staff will recognized it for what it is - a team that got hot at the right time (this years Habs & last years Canucks).

Edited July 12, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[kanucks25]

On 6/23/2021 at 3:25 PM, Aladeen said:

1) make the playoffs

2) stay healthy

3) play as a team

4) have a great goalie

5) have above average D built for the playoff grind

6) capitalize on chances 

Okay so it looks like we've got #4.

 

Now to start the rebuild so we can get the rest.

[kanucks25]

15 hours ago, lmm said:

I agree Cinderalla teams usually fall short

4 rounds in glass slippers is a tough gig

but they don't always fall shoirt, like StLouis and 2012 Kings

The problem with that is it give canuck fans false hope, some on this board think the 2021 canucks are the same as the 2012 Kings-- just missing out on a long playoff run.

2012 Kings over the 2021 Canucks (even Healthy) 10/10 times, its not close.

IMO the Kings and Blues you reference aren't the best example because they underachieved during the regular season in their respective years. 

 

The Kings especially were predicted to be a top team in the West before the season started.

 

I see Montreal as a true Cinderella as most saw them as an average team overall, and one that wasn't supposed to be anywhere close to the SCF.

[lmm]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

IMO the Kings and Blues you reference aren't the best example because they underachieved during the regular season in their respective years. 

 

The Kings especially were predicted to be a top team in the West before the season started.

 

I see Montreal as a true Cinderella as most saw them as an average team overall, and one that wasn't supposed to be anywhere close to the SCF.

true, but the Kings were the first 8th seed to win the cup and StL was last at Christmas

Its the kind of thing that keeps the faithful hopeful and fuels the "Just gotta get in" mentality

The Habs built a playoff ready D and already had an MVP goalie, aided by rest from Allen playing lots during the season.

Their popgun offense was ultimately their undoing

Its funny to me, that some folks say, "Don't follow the trend"

while some say "Kings were 8th, just get in baby, anything can happen"

 

I would rather my team follow the "Big mobile D/ Allstar Goalie" trend, than the "JUst get in, you might catch lightning in a bottle (8th)"  one time only, trend

[Viper007]

The habs taught me that if you lose one of your top 2 centreman for any amount of time, you will probably not win the series.  Toronto lost Tavares, Winnipeg lost Schiefele, Vegas lost Stephenson.  Injuries play a key part in if you win/lose in the playoffs.

[knucklehead91]

8 hours ago, lmm said:

true, but the Kings were the first 8th seed to win the cup and StL was last at Christmas

Its the kind of thing that keeps the faithful hopeful and fuels the "Just gotta get in" mentality

The Habs built a playoff ready D and already had an MVP goalie, aided by rest from Allen playing lots during the season.

Their popgun offense was ultimately their undoing

Its funny to me, that some folks say, "Don't follow the trend"

while some say "Kings were 8th, just get in baby, anything can happen"

 

I would rather my team follow the "Big mobile D/ Allstar Goalie" trend, than the "JUst get in, you might catch lightning in a bottle (8th)"  one time only, trend

Kings and St Louis sorta “snuck” in to the playoffs, but if you look at their record down the stretch, especially like 25 games down the stretch, they were clearly on another level. They had a real rough start and some ups and downs, a few adjustments and it all came together. The way the kings disposed of every single team just goes to show it wasnt really a cinderella run and especially when you look at their rosters, those werent cinderella teams. Montreal was definitely a cinderella team.

[Metal Face Doom]

The Habs were a fluke and they went on a good run.  That is all that we learned.  Next season, when the schedule normalizes, they'll be a barely make playoff team.

[Alflives]

Just now, Metal Face Doom said:

The Habs were a fluke and they went on a good run.  That is all that we learned.  Next season, when the schedule normalizes, they'll be a barely make playoff team.

Which of these four teams will the Habs beat out for a playoff spot?  

Toronto, Florida, Tampa, Boston.

Ottawa might be better than the Habs.  Detroit, and Buffalo will be horrid.

i see the Habs finishing sixth in their division.  

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Basically fire your coach early in the season and you may have a better chance at a cup