The future of schmidt and myers

[Scottydzik]

1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Id trade him and use the money for montour in UFA for hughes partner.

The best thing they can do is take a flyer on him with a young guy or 3rd line centre he still has value or debrusk swap 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Holtby, Schmidt, and Jake for deBrusk and ?  ? 

I think Holtby for DeBrusk 1 for 1 would do it. No need to send Nate. Or how about Holtby for a 4th? that would be even better in some ways. 

 

Boston is going to trade for OEL anyway. 

[Scottydzik]

If we could do holtby 4th for debrusk Benning better take that and run quick

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think Holtby for DeBrusk 1 for 1 would do it. No need to send Nate. Or how about Holtby for a 4th? that would be even better in some ways. 

 

Boston is going to trade for OEL anyway. 

If Boston is going for OEL won’t they want us to take back more cap than we give?  

Maybe it’s back to Jake for Jake?  

[Scottydzik]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Boston is going for OEL won’t they want us to take back more cap than we give?  

Maybe it’s back to Jake for Jake?  

I doubt there worried about 1 million they have krejci coming off books and have cap if Benning could pull this trade it be slick 

[RWMc1]

1 hour ago, mll said:

The season before the league projected 83M - it ended up being only 81.5M.   It was going to be a repeat.

 

The player side found those projections unrealistic even before Covid.  

 

Mirtle in The Athletic:  "Multiple sources on the players' side said on Thursday that has almost no chance of happening. In fact, many believe the cap will not even reach the league's minimum projected figure of $84-million for next season, which would mean an increase of $2.5-million or less."

 

The league projects with the full escalator but it's a player decisions.  Escrow has been a growing issue.  There were even discussions to keep the cap somewhat flat for several years, even after the new TV deal kicks in, to allow revenue to catchup to the salary cap. 

 

 

I didn't hear anything about that last bit.

 

An increase of 2.5 million still changes the position we are in. One or two of our players, who had a good playoff, could have been moved if their value didn't plummet because of Covid. The cap landscape would still be far different than it is now. Personally I don't think that's debatable. It's obvious.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Boston is going for OEL won’t they want us to take back more cap than we give?  

Maybe it’s back to Jake for Jake?  

Boston has 30 million in cap space right now, so not a ton of pressure to get bargains. I think Holtby would be attractive because its a set 1 year deal. 

 

But maybe DeBrusk back is good enough, it clears most of the cap for BH. 

[PhillipBlunt]

32 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think Holtby for DeBrusk 1 for 1 would do it. No need to send Nate. Or how about Holtby for a 4th? that would be even better in some ways. 

 

Boston is going to trade for OEL anyway. 

Would rather Holtby be traded for a pick. Debrusk is overrated on these boards. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Would rather Holtby be traded for a pick. Debrusk is overrated on these boards. 

yup. Maybe that extra 7th Boson has from TO? 

[ilduce39]

I forget which article I read but it had Hughes/Schmidt as a pretty effective pairing in limited minutes last year. 
 

That would leave Edler-Myers on the 2nd pair who played well in 2019 and Rathbone/Juolevi to play with, say, Hamonic if we can bring him back.

Hughes-Schmidt

Edler-Myers

Juolevi-Hamonic

Rathbone

 

That’s two pairings that can play pretty tough and Huges/Schmidt who can really push the puck.  All pairings decent in transition.  
 

Im all for chasing upgrades/younger fits (Graves/Bjugstad over Edler? Or Hamonic and play Eagle on his off side in the 3rd pair?) but I’d actually be fine if that was our depth going into next year and use the upcoming cap space to find a real top pairing guy next summer.

 

Edit: still think Shaw with a proper offseason and some familiarity will give significant internal improvement with this group… plus Hughes/Juolevi/Rathbone are all young enough to expect some development related improvement. Finally, we aren’t all so unless it’s an easy fit I can see us standing pat.

Edited June 28, 2021 by ilduce39

[DeNiro]

10 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I forget which article I read but it had Hughes/Schmidt as a pretty effective pairing in limited minutes last year. 
 

That would leave Edler-Myers on the 2nd pair who played well in 2019 and Rathbone/Juolevi to play with, say, Hamonic if we can bring him back.

Hughes-Schmidt

Edler-Myers

Juolevi-Hamonic

Rathbone

 

That’s two pairings that can play pretty tough and Huges/Schmidt who can really push the puck.  All pairings decent in transition.  
 

Im all for chasing upgrades/younger fits (Graves/Bjugstad over Edler? Or Hamonic and play Eagle on his off side in the 3rd pair?) but I’d actually be fine if that was our depth going into next year and use the upcoming cap space to find a real top pairing guy next summer.

 

Edit: still think Shaw with a proper offseason and some familiarity will give significant internal improvement with this group… plus Hughes/Juolevi/Rathbone are all young enough to expect some development related improvement. Finally, we aren’t all so unless it’s an easy fit I can see us standing pat.

I see there being no scenario where Benning signs nobody on D.

 

He’s said himself he’ll be looking to get bigger and stronger on D this offseason.

[Googlie]

On 6/27/2021 at 4:12 PM, Convincing John said:

 

All these systems are so radically different. The defence playbook is at least 90 pages.  
 

Not Baumgartner's

[Tom Sestito]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Some folks i'm not sure if they actually bother watching the games.   Myers is like Edler was a few years ago when we really sucked.   Just the best we have.  Don't get the picking on his cap one bit, even with covid it's ok for a UFA 6 x 5, hasn't been injured yet like Elder was either ... or Tanev for that matter.   I sound like a broken record but we need more guys like him not less.    Seems like most of the CDC was around for the 2010-2013 team.   Go back and look at the cap percentage we paid for that D.   Myers vs Ballard....the more we get like him, the more effective the entire D will become. 

Ballard sucked dog$&!#. He was never that good in the first place but was worse after that injury in 07 or 08 cant rmb

 

The cap percentage argument would be good if Myers was good. I don’t think Myers is as bad as we have seen here and played way better in WPG. I specifically remember he looked like a #2 or #3 the first 10-15 games of 19-20. And since then, he has been brutal which I attribute to poor fit in our nonexistent systems (look at Tanev’s improvement this season) 

 

 

 

I’m not as pessimistic as Hansen with the way he sees things but I’m for sure closer to his opinion relative to yours. I don’t like the false equivalence with the Edler thing. I don’t think he’s the best we have. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Tom Sestito

[EddieVedder]

Hansen knows what hes talking about a heck of a lot more than any of us do. 

 

This d just does not have the personnel.  

 

 

[EddieVedder]

34 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I see there being no scenario where Benning signs nobody on D.

 

He’s said himself he’ll be looking to get bigger and stronger on D this offseason.

Hughes and Schmidt would be a nightmare and the opposition would eat them da fook up. 

 

 

[ilduce39]

 

7 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

Hughes and Schmidt would be a nightmare and the opposition would eat them da fook up. 

 

 

When they played together it didn’t happen… Schmidt had the second highest TOI on a powerhouse Vegas team.  Hughes needs to learn but Schmidt *has* had success in that role.

[ilduce39]

45 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I see there being no scenario where Benning signs nobody on D.

 

He’s said himself he’ll be looking to get bigger and stronger on D this offseason.

You’re probably right - I wouldn’t bet on “stand pat” but I still think it’s a viable option. Look at the success guys who’ve left the organization have had.  
 

It’s not a personnel issue IMO - the biggest issue is the team needs to play better. Be it “systems” or simply practice time and familiarity. 

 

I do think a stud first pairing D (either side - paired with Hughes as a RD or Schmidt if he’s a lefty) would change the narrative a ton. However, I don’t see how shuffling the deck chairs with different middle-bottom pairing types will change the outcome a lot.  
 

I think you do that only if the age / cost works compared to what Edler/Hamonic want or if there’s a decent market for Schmidt. 

[canuckleheads fan]

On 6/27/2021 at 12:53 PM, Convincing John said:

I was excited for the trade, I love Schmidt, I thought it was a great price to acquire him. However, he just doesn’t seem to fit. It’s unfortunate. 

I wouldn't base too much of your opinion on last year for two reasons.  First, Schmidt, and Holtby for that matter, didn't get a training camp, and the early season schedule was brutal to the point that the only practice time the team had was the morning skate, so Schmidt didn't really get settled in until at least halfway through the season, then Covid hit, and then the NHL sentenced the team to the Bataan Death March, so he really had not opportunity to get in a groove.  The same goes for Holtby, it takes time to understand the boards, to know your players and their tendencies, and to play to their strengths.  Now they have Shaw who has to be here for his defensive coaching prowess, because after all it was defense that sucked hard last season, and hopefully he brings some defensive zone structure.  I predict that Schmidt will look like a completely different player this season, and I believe that if Holtby is still here, he too will have a career renaissance with Ian Clark.  As for moving Myers, not going to happen.  TG likes his defenders to play their strong side, it makes the game easier at both ends of ice, keeping the puck in, getting shots on goal, making quick passes, stick checking guys trying to take you wide.  I expect that JB will pay any reasonable offer to keep Hamonic here as well, because quality RHD are like unicorns.  It's going to be a couple of hears until Jet Woo is ready for the big club, I expect he'll see some ice as an injury replacement, but the long-term plan would be to sign Hamonic to a three-year deal for a reasonable price, and have Woo replace Schmidt when his contract expires, or force the team to trade Schmidt if Woo's ready sooner. 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

 However, I don’t see how shuffling the deck chairs with different middle-bottom pairing types will change the outcome a lot.  

You're right, I think most of our improvement next year, same/similar players or not, will come from better, systems, zone play and puck support (especially from the forwards). As well as guys like Schmidt actually settling in, getting a preseason and having some actual practice time.

 

That said, as I outlined a few pages back, there is a path of 'shuffling the deck chairs' that could make sense with a longer view towards targeting a top pair guy in the 22-23 offseason and clearing cap to do so.

 

And while none of these guys are likely as good 'all around' as Myers, they might be a better fit for the guys we have on our roster.

 

If we can leverage the ED to obtain a guy like Mayfield (or Jensen or Foote etc), while signing one of Hamonic, Larsson, Savard as well as a guy like Hakanpaa or Ceci and expose or trade Myers (after the ED if he's not selected), we clear out cap and pave the way to potentially target a guy like Parayko, Risto, Lindholm etc the next year.

 

Hughes, Hamonic/Larsson/Savard

Schmidt, Mayfield/Jensen

Juolevi, Hakanpaa/Ceci

 

With Edler signed to a 35+ cheap contract with games played bonuses as 6th-7th D and Rathbone waiting in the wings to make someone expendable over the next year or two and Woo likely not far behind him.

 

Add Parayko or similar to that, and we're laughing.

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by aGENT

[Convincing John]

2 hours ago, canuckleheads fan said:

I wouldn't base too much of your opinion on last year for two reasons.  First, Schmidt, and Holtby for that matter, didn't get a training camp, and the early season schedule was brutal to the point that the only practice time the team had was the morning skate, so Schmidt didn't really get settled in until at least halfway through the season, then Covid hit, and then the NHL sentenced the team to the Bataan Death March, so he really had not opportunity to get in a groove.  The same goes for Holtby, it takes time to understand the boards, to know your players and their tendencies, and to play to their strengths.  Now they have Shaw who has to be here for his defensive coaching prowess, because after all it was defense that sucked hard last season, and hopefully he brings some defensive zone structure.  I predict that Schmidt will look like a completely different player this season, and I believe that if Holtby is still here, he too will have a career renaissance with Ian Clark.  As for moving Myers, not going to happen.  TG likes his defenders to play their strong side, it makes the game easier at both ends of ice, keeping the puck in, getting shots on goal, making quick passes, stick checking guys trying to take you wide.  I expect that JB will pay any reasonable offer to keep Hamonic here as well, because quality RHD are like unicorns.  It's going to be a couple of hears until Jet Woo is ready for the big club, I expect he'll see some ice as an injury replacement, but the long-term plan would be to sign Hamonic to a three-year deal for a reasonable price, and have Woo replace Schmidt when his contract expires, or force the team to trade Schmidt if Woo's ready sooner. 

Don’t overthink stuff. Schmidt wasn’t the same player because he wasn’t surrounded by the warm womb of Vegas and Washington.