Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[204CanucksFan]

[-DLC-]

13 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

What in the hell...

 

My intention is to point out what I think is a problem with our fanbase. A little self-reflection doesn't hurt, y'know? Please debate the substance of my comments, not whatever assumptions you're making about my personal make-up. That's an incredible reach for a discussion board that's done all through text - you have no context for what the tone behind my comments could be - it's all text at the end of the day. 

 

 

"Self" reflection means you reflect on YOU, not just us.

 

 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Just now, -DLC- said:

"Self" reflection means you reflect on YOU, not us.

 

 

I'll see myself out the door. This was quite the exchange 

 

 

[Gurn]

22 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Y'all need to chill.

 

20 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You know what happens when you tell a woman to chill out.....

 

(ok, I'll try)

[McBackup]

3 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

What in the hell...

 

My intention is to point out what I think is a problem with our fanbase. A little self-reflection doesn't hurt, y'know? Please debate the substance of my comments, not whatever assumptions you're making about my personal make-up. That's an incredible reach for a discussion board that's done all through text - you have no context for what the tone behind my comments could be - it's all text at the end of the day. 

 

Well, time to hop off back to the Federal Election Thread...discussions there are a lot less...emotionally charged lol

 

"Have you guys ever considered that you're psycho"- You

 

"Yes thats been considered. Calling us psycho is pointless"-Nearly everyone in this thread

 

"Wow why would you insinuate I called you psycho? There is no grounds for that. I must go now, my planet needs me."-You

 

 

[Nucker 67]

I have both Pettersson's and Hughes' jerseys, I really like both players a lot, such incredible talents, but if the price was right, the Canucks could get boatloads in returns.  

 

If Pettersson and Hughes want (guessing $8 and $9 each), what will they want when those contracts end?  $12 and 15? The Canucks won't be able to afford Boeser and maybe they struggle to re-sign other guys like Hoglander or Podkolzin.  I don't like how this is playing out for the team.

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

 

Me 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Thing is....when you're demanding to be paid top dollar you have to show it.  We've learned, firsthand, how it's important to budget and, moving forward, we'll have many with star potential who'll want to get paid.   

 

Don't get me wrong...love Quinn and his offensive flair.  Would hate to lose this kid.

 

But, at this point, maybe one of the reasons we've been "bad" (according to the observers on the Devils, lol) is that size and strength do matter on D?  That the point of a good d is...defending  (defence wins championships).   I do agree that Quinn was better when he had Tanev and putting the right supporting cast in place is important.  But if you're a top guy demanding top dollar it's important that you've proven why you've earned that.  Quinn is super agile and has offensive flair....but his size is becoming relevant in all of this to me.  You have to count on your d to....defend.  To clear the crease and battle for puck possession in order to get it out of your zone.  To be able to carry the puck without getting easily knocked off it.  He's been elusive and his skating can make up for some of his lack of strength/size...but is it enough?

 

I've defended Quinn but let's face it...if the team is "bad" according to his family camp's standards, he's part of that.  

I thought we're homers if we just totally defend all our players all the time?  Here I'm finally open to the fact that they may not be immune to criticism and all of a sudden, that's a bad thing?   Pick a side.

I've been pointing this out for years. The key to defence is defending. It's right in the name. How people continue to keep missing that point when discussing hockey is absolutely beyond me. I blame it on EA NHL94.

[bbllpp]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Thing is....when you're demanding to be paid top dollar you have to show it.  We've learned, firsthand, how it's important to budget and, moving forward, we'll have many with star potential who'll want to get paid.   

 

Don't get me wrong...love Quinn and his offensive flair.  Would hate to lose this kid.

 

But, at this point, maybe one of the reasons we've been "bad" (according to the observers on the Devils, lol) is that size and strength do matter on D?  That the point of a good d is...defending  (defence wins championships).   I do agree that Quinn was better when he had Tanev and putting the right supporting cast in place is important.  But if you're a top guy demanding top dollar it's important that you've proven why you've earned that.  Quinn is super agile and has offensive flair....but his size is becoming relevant in all of this to me.  You have to count on your d to....defend.  To clear the crease and battle for puck possession in order to get it out of your zone.  To be able to carry the puck without getting easily knocked off it.  He's been elusive and his skating can make up for some of his lack of strength/size...but is it enough?

 

I've defended Quinn but let's face it...if the team is "bad" according to his family camp's standards, he's part of that.  

I thought we're homers if we just totally defend all our players all the time?  Here I'm finally open to the fact that they may not be immune to criticism and all of a sudden, that's a bad thing?   Pick a side.

Hughes was a big contributor to our GA last year and terrible 5v5 despite decent points.  What did he do that kept us from sucking, if he was due big money we should’ve sucked less in my mind.  3 years or less in my mind.

[McBackup]

1 minute ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've been pointing this out for years. The key to defence is defending. It's right in the name. How people continue to keep missing that point when discussing hockey is absolutely beyond me. I blame it on EA NHL94.

I think its been that way ever since Karlsson won his first Norris. The rhetoric was "You're defending by creating more offence" which seems silly, but ever since then actual two way defenders have been overlooked in favour of D who are extremely porous but rack up a lot of points.

[-DLC-]

This is from February, but when Jack screams that our team is the worst.....well.....

 

Again, HATE throwing our players under the bus but it matters that they ALL get scrutinized and Jack's comment ignores that.  There is no I in team...that always is important to me.  That they're one for all and all for one.

 

Quinn's been overused at times.  So that matters (remember, I like context and supporting commentary).  So his numbers obviously have to have that asterisk beside it.

He seems to really love playing the game and that's infectious..I love watching him play.  But it's becoming glaring that our d is an issue.  And it's not enough to have flash, dash and brilliance.  To get paid the big bucks as a d man you have to be one of the top...d men and be able to prevent the other team from scoring.  That's your number one role...the rest is secondary to that. 

 

If you think of the top d men over the years, they don't scream flash and dash brilliance.  It's a subtle greatness that's often undermined.  It's a responsible and selfless position.

Again, supporting cast IS important but you can't rely on others if you're touted (and to be paid as) one of the best.  You have to BE the best and be able to stand alone in that.

 

Quote

Hughes has been on the ice for a whopping 26 even-strength goals-against through 19 games. For reference, the next three players who are tied for second-worst in this category (Darnell Nurse, Denis Savard and Erik Gudbranson) have only been on the ice for 18 even-strength goals against.

If we look at this as goals-against on a 60-minute basis, Hughes winds up as fourth-worst in the NHL, allowing 5.19 per 60.

Basically, the opposition is scoring a goal approximately once every 12 minutes when Hughes is on the ice.

I'm hoping Quinn gets there and am confident he will.  But he's not there YET and so his contract needs to reflect his current status and be fair.  Not what we hope he'll be.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

Good point.

 

 

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[Jester13]

Just now, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Good point.

 

 

I don't see how it'll help Petey when he can just walk around Hughes' defence with ease 

[McBackup]

5 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

This is from February, but when Jack screams that our team is the worst.....well.....

 

Again, HATE throwing our players under the bus but it matters that they ALL get scrutinized and Jack's comment ignores that.  There is no I in team...that always is important to me.  That they're one for all and all for one.

 

Quinn's been overused at times.  So that matters (remember, I like context and supporting commentary).  So his numbers obviously have to have that asterisk beside it.

He seems to really love playing the game and that's infectious..I love watching him play.  But it's becoming glaring that our d is an issue.  And it's not enough to have flash, dash and brilliance.  To get paid the big bucks as a d man you have to be one of the top...d men and be able to prevent the other team from scoring.  That's your number one role...the rest is secondary to that. 

 

If you think of the top d men over the years, they don't scream flash and dash brilliance.  It's a subtle greatness that's often undermined.  It's a responsible and selfless position.

Again, supporting cast IS important but you can't rely on others if you're touted (and to be paid as) one of the best.  You have to BE the best and be able to stand alone in that.

 

I'm hoping Quinn gets there and am confident he will.  But he's not there YET and so his contract needs to reflect his current status and be fair in reflecting that.  Not what we hope he'll be.

Unfortunately however the fact that Darnell Nurse is right there on that list and looking at the enormous overblown contract he got, if anything that lends more to Hughes case than takes against it. This offseason in general for defenseman kind of torched my expectations for Quinn signing a more reasonable number.

[thrago]

The thing that drives me nuts about this situation is that EP and QH said they wanted to play for competitive teams and sign fair deals.  So Benning took that to heart went out Made the team a whole lot more competitive while clearing enough cap space to give them Fair deals. Yet here we are and they still haven't signed on the dotted line.  It's really hard for me as a regular Joe and fan of the team to understand where the problem is.  What more do they want exactly?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Good point.

 

 

 

its the optics that aren't great. It makes it look like they are holding out together, which seems a bit unfriendly to the team to join forces like that. I do think its the agency behind that as a pressure move, and its going to turn off a lot of the fan base. Which is also something I think the agent wants to promote. 

 

Its very hard for people to try to stay neutral with this stuff. And then there's social media.... 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

here's a question

 

With the addition of Garland,OEL, Dickinson, Podz, Poolman

 

Another year of development for Hogz and Juolevi

 

Can the Canucks make the playoffs without Petterson and Hughes?

 

Reports that the two sides are far off is not encouraging and to be honest, I have to side with management here.

As a fan with a long term vision for this team, I'm ok to make them sit out for a while until they sign reasonable contracts as team unfriendly contracts will become detrimental in a couple of years when guys that bought in like Horvat and Boeser will look at management and say what the heck?

 

If I thought I was worth 6.5 and I signed for 5.5 to be a team player so that we can field a better team and then young guys on the team who havent really proven enough got paid much more by holding out, I would without a doubt go for max money my second time around.

 

I would also be annoyed at my selfish teammates.

 

If I was another player on the team and Benning holds firm and signs them to fair deals, I would be happy that I bought in and that I can trust my GM to stick with the plan.

 

I dont buy the argument that existing players will be pissed if Benning doesn't get the 2 signed.  Players know market value and if they have selfish teammates, it's not good for team cohesion.

 

 

 

 

[McBackup]

5 minutes ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

Good point.

 

 

Pettersson flew to Vancouver just to fly out to Michigan to skate with Quinn, rather than Quinn coming to Vancouver to skate with Petey. On the surface at least that doesn't sound like there's much leeway given to those contracts being signed soon if they want to be here for camp. 

[thrago]

Just now, JM_ said:

 

its the optics that aren't great. It makes it look like they are holding out together, which seems a bit unfriendly to the team to join forces like that. I do think its the agency behind that as a pressure move, and its going to turn off a lot of the fan base. Which is also something I think the agent wants to promote. 

 

Its very hard for people to try to stay neutral with this stuff. And then there's social media.... 

 

 

This to me was obvious that, that was their plan when EP changed agents.