[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Goal:thecup]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:06 PM, ilduce39 said:

Genuinely curious to see where Boudreau called Garland “a third liner.”

 

He’s our best winger if you count Miller as a C.

I'd take Podz over Gnarly.

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, gurn said:

As long as they move their elite before they become meh- and usually meh happens in the early to mid 30's doesn't it?

depends on the player. 

[JM_]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

In the recently posted drat day video Allvin said all guys who make it to the NHL will work hard and compete, so it’s elite skill that separates them.  That’s why he was big on the scout’s choosing Lekkerimaki.  

So I would guess Allvin would very much like Miller and want to keep him. 

everyone's worried about Millers decline and how you can afford it. Right when that is expected to happen, thats when our ELCs should start to be flowing in.

 

There's just so much hyperbole and past blunders being dragged in to this. At the end of the day, the best teams keep their best players. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:06 PM, ilduce39 said:

Genuinely curious to see where Boudreau called Garland “a third liner.”

 

He’s our best winger if you count Miller as a C.

To be honest, I view an effective 3rd line actually *more* important than an effective 2nd line in a "traditional hockey sense".  An effective (defensive) 3rd line will provide more 'benefits' for the club than a "complementary offensive support 2nd line".  Especially since this team already has a legit 1st line (and not just because "somebody" has to play on the 1st line).

[Alflives]

22 minutes ago, gurn said:

almost everyone want to keep Miller.

The issue is at what price and for how long.

Have not seen a single post from anyone saying "get rid of Miller he's garbage".

 

How much and how long?

Agreed.  Our rumoured offer is six years and 45 mil.  On July 1, 2023 Miller can try and find a better offer.  He won’t.  So he can re-sign with us for the 45 mil on July 2 or move on.  But we get him for this season and don’t do something stupid like the Cowpies just did with Huberdough. 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'd love to see this management group buck this ridiculous trend of long term, high aav contracts that is happening in this league

 

We ain't contending, it makes no sense to give up long term flexibility before we reach our window imo

[204CanucksFan]

11 hours ago, SilentSam said:

It has nothing to do with points,.  JT’s presence grew on the team with me durring Covid..  yes,  believe it or not.

 

We were possibly the hardest team hit by the longest stretch of games lost and loss of players throughout the season im referring to.

 

When it was time to go back ,  the NHL basically gave the team a day to prepare and get back to full play the next day.

 

Neither management, or Coaching staff said anything,.  Nor did Horvat..   but JT was beside himself and came out publicly to denounce a situation that could have serious implications to his team mates and himself.

He was as diplomatically correct as he could be in the interview,.   And not long after that , meetings happened between the NHL and team to try and address the situation.

 

Dont get me wrong , it’s not this one interview that swayed me,.  But in any interview, this player is so far from anecdotal or building a vocabulary full of clichés.

Since his arrival, playing with team mates durring games ,  he is vocal , involved, emotional, intense..  that builds others to come “alive” in their own game.

 

 I feel the silence of the Sedins rubbed off on to Horvat,  ..  it’s Stoic ,  but to what degree does that emit drive and intensity , especially when you’ve got full tanks of testosterone in a lot of players on this club..  

someone has to show them how to tap into that.

 

I think this is the interview I’m referring to ,  I don’t think the date that the vid was posted reflects the date of the interview.

..  
I appreciate your question,.  

It’s obvious a responsibility comes with being Captain..  

Some wear it as a weight to carry on their back,  others ride it like it’s their favourite War Horse.

Leadership should not be diluted down as a group effort..   the Captain is the Leader.

His ethic should grow on the Team as a group supporting each other with that value.

 

Miller, to me has been doing that here,  because there has been a void, and it needed to be filled.

 

If Miller is traded or leaves,.   I’m confident That void will return..  players like him are hard to find.

 

 

Hey, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.  

 

While I was doing some research this morning I came across a Drance article from March that made my arguments and put how I feel much more eloquently than I ever could. I'll add it at the bottom of this post. (I know, I agree with Drance about something, gross right, I feel dirty). Here's my far less articulate version with my other opinions and examples.

 

You make some really good points and you are right, I agree he is a valuable leader but just not close to captain material for me. I agree that JT is emotional, but for me he's way too emotional, he can't control himself and at times, to me atleast, can come across as a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

As I said in an earlier post, we've all seen him on the ice yelling and swearing when things don't go his way, he's lazy on his backchecks and he'll casually glide to bench for a change when the other team is gaining our zone on the rush. Now I'm not saying he does these things all the time but he does have a tendency towards them and these are not good signs of a leader to me, also these are all things that the coaches in Abbotsford are specifically trying to get out of Klimovich's game.

 

As I said before I do really think he is a good leader but sometimes he just does and says things that really bug me and show that he can't be a captain. The video interview you posted is a perfect example of this. I agree 100% with what he's doing and his overall message about how unfair the whole situation was and think it's great he spoke up. My problem with the interview, and I'm summarizing the dialogue obviously, is when Drance asked his follow up question about how it felt for JT knowing he didn't get Covid and so many of his teammates did and JT starts out with a great answer saying he felt sympathetic and kind of guilty but then it takes a hard turn for me when he immediately follows it up with "but all I can think about" is how is he supposed to be expected to come out and perform with no real practice and warmup time after this much time off.

 

For me, true leadership is when the team came back from Covid and Bo, who actually had Covid and didn't get any extra skating time that JT admitted he got while the team was off, came out and absolutely dominated the best team in the division. Bo let his play on the ice do all the talking for him that game, 2 goals including the OT winner and 3 points in a 3-2 game. JT's stat line: -1, 2PIM, 1shot. For me that fires the team up and gets the testosterone flowing far more than some guy swearing and slamming his stick cuz he missed a pass. Also, as I mentioned before, I've never seen JT carry a team through a playoff round but I've seen Bo do it.

 

As for off ice leadership, it was Bo that brought the team together in a players only meeting and took a vote, then brought the whole team down the hall to talk to Ryan Reaves at the Golden Knights dressing room and see how he wanted to proceed, then go out front and center with Reaves to put out the statement that they wouldn't be playing that night in response to George Floyd's death. That's a true leader.

 

Again, I wish that it made sense to keep JT without having to gut our depth, which for forwards at least is the best I've seen in about a decade, but with the cap most likely staying down its much better to use his value to help balance out our D and make it so our remaining forwards don't have to outscore that deficiency.

 

Apologies for the length lol and here's the article I mentioned at the start (sorry for formatting, I'm on mobile):

 

When the Vancouver Canucks needed him on Tuesday night against the New Jersey Devils, Bo Horvat stepped up.

That’s no surprise to anybody, or shouldn’t be if you’ve watched Horvat’s Canucks career unfold.

That’s just who he is. Horvat is the type of player, the type of person, that steps up.

He’s been the standard-bearer for this franchise through a fitful, messy rebuild. He’s said the right things and gone about his business with a work rate and maturity that’s beyond reproach.

He’s improved his game, donned the captain’s “C,” navigated a complicated hockey market with a Sedin-level level of authenticity as a spokesperson, and he’s consistently elevated his game when the chips are down and the leverage is highest.

So, why is Horvat so frequently overlooked in Vancouver? Why is this plugged-in, voracious hockey market always in search of the new hotness?

Why are we so focused on what Horvat isn’t? He’s never likely to be a Selke finalist, he’s not a top playmaker, he’s never quite figured out the penalty kill — as opposed to what he is?

On Tuesday, Horvat provided a reminder of what he can do.

Playing with new linemates, he’s always playing with new linemates, Horvat scored the go-ahead goal with a rush slap shot shortly after the New Jersey Devils tied the game.

The Devils were pressing, cycling in the Vancouver end. But it was Horvat that made the defensive play to strip Tomas Tatar of the puck, skated down the left wing and uncorked a big wind up and a heavy, low shot.

It was a shot that Devils goaltender Nico Daws should’ve stopped. Horvat joked after the game that it was the first time he’d ever scored on a slapper in the NHL. That’s pretty impressive because the sensors clocked the shot at 96 miles per hour.

The shot was fast enough to be an absolute backbreaker. The sort of goal that caused the entire Devils bench to sag, and sure enough, Vancouver scored the game-winner moments later, chasing Daws from the game.

When the Devils battled back and were pressing early in the third period, down a goal on the power play with a double minor and a chance to tie it, it was Horvat again that provided the insurance with a delicious bar down finish short-handed.

Like clockwork, Horvat stepped up.

Postgame, Canucks coach Bruce Boudreau referred to the performance as an indication that Horvat is a “true captain.” And yet the conversation in this market has been so focused on J.T. Miller’s leadership. His work setting “the standard” for this club.

It’s perhaps inevitable that the more demonstrative personality soaks up so much oxygen, something Horvat acknowledges with a joke, laughing when The Athletic asked him on Tuesday night about the leadership dynamic between him and Miller within the room.

“I might be a little bit nicer than J.T.,” Horvat laughs. “He’s just so passionate, he wants to win, he wants to be the best and he wants to have success here. And so do I.”

The fact is though, is that the two more than coexist within the environment of this club. Miller is a valuable piece, a key personality. Make no mistake, Miller would chafe under the obligations of wearing the “C” in this market over time, where Horvat handles it with grace.

Horvat, meanwhile, needs Miller’s edge in the room.

“J.T. is a hell of a player,” Horvat says. “He’s playing unbelievable right now and we need him to win. Everybody realizes that. I realize that.

“And I need him to step up in the room. I talk quite a bit and sometimes guys are like ‘Jeez, Bo, shut up.’ I don’t know if guys actually feel that way, but it feels that way to me sometimes.

“To have a different voice to step up sometimes and say things — and there’s other guys too, like Tyler Myers and Tanner Pearson — but that balance between J.T. and I, we have similar thoughts and similar mindsets about how we want to play as a team. Having a guy that I can lean on night in and night out is huge.”

Horvat, meanwhile, has been the subject of almost constant criticism of late. Questions fill the inbox at Sportsnet 650 on a regular basis, about why Horvat’s considered a core piece, but Miller isn’t.

That criticism reached a fever pitch after Horvat missed a run of games in COVID-19 protocol in January. Left behind in the United States for a stretch, Horvat struggled significantly on his return. Over eight games between January 29 and February 19, he managed just three points in eight games.

The criticism grew. Became voluminous. The criticism reached a level where Horvat had to unplug. Had to get back to basics, and just focus on himself.

“I try not to look at that kind of stuff, because it does, it mentally weighs on people,” Horvat says of stickhandling the criticism that struggling players endure in Vancouver.

“I knew I wasn’t playing good enough, I knew I wasn’t myself, so I just kind of blocked out everything. Not that I deleted my Twitter, but I logged out of all social media. I just thought, I need to take a step back, think about myself as a person, my game, where I’m at. And not worry about what other people think and what other people are saying.

“Honestly, it saved me. It did. It really did.

“Mentally I just focused on me, didn’t care what anybody else said, decided that I’m just going to go out and play. It’s kind of gone from there.”

Meanwhile, Horvat was working through a physical lethargy from his bout with the Omicron variant. The physical aftershocks, honestly, left him stunned.

“I don’t know whether it was COVID or because I had 10 days off and everyone is in midseason form and that’s the worst time to get it, and I was on the road away from everyone. It was probably mental a little bit, just mentally exhausted from everything, but I’m not going to lie: I did feel it physically,” Horvat told The Athletic. “I was actually shocked, when we all came back from when we all had COVID last year, and returned against the Leafs, it didn’t affect my lungs as much as it did this time. I feel way better now, and obviously … I mean you can tell.”

Considering that Horvat has put his post-COVID-19 struggles behind him, recording 14 points in his last 10 games, we can definitely tell.

Overall it was surprising to Horvat — who is fully vaccinated under NHL protocols — that he felt more lingering effects from this bout with COVID-19 in January of 2022 than he did seven months prior during Vancouver’s first team-level outbreak.

“Yeah it affected my game quite a bit, a lot more than I thought it would,” Horvat says. “Especially my lungs and my legs. I didn’t feel near myself, even though I had hardly any symptoms — cough, runny nose — but after that it took me a while to get my legs again, my wind and my timing. I don’t know if it takes away your hockey sense a little bit, but it felt like it.”

Horvat is healthy now. He’s the hottest player on one of the NHL’s hottest teams.

He’s got a chance to step up again, to play a key role for a team that’s going to be playing in a run of high-stakes games in the weeks and months to come. He wants a chance to see it through.

Now, no one believes that Canucks hockey operations leadership will behave like a typical seller at the deadline. Not now that they’re just a point removed from the second wild-card spot in the Western Conference.

Still, with the deadline looming, we asked Horvat the big question on everyone’s minds for another five days before the March 21 NHL trade deadline: “Has this team earned the right to see how far they can take this run?”

“Personally I think we have,” Horvat answered. “We’ve always had this in our room, it was just a matter of … I don’t know what.

“Nothing has really changed since the beginning of the year, we’ve had it all along, it was just about changing our mindset and getting it through to us. We all have belief in what we can do and we’ve proven night in and night out that we can play with any team and beat any team. It feels good to be in the position that we’re in now.

“Now it’s not up to me and I’m not telling anybody what to do, but it feels like we’re on a bit of a run and I want to see how far we can take this.”

(Top photo of Bo Horvat: Jeff Vinnick / NHLI via Getty Images)

[ilduce39]

40 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

I'd take Podz over Gnarly.

Based on upside, maybe.  He has a way better shot, attention to detail and is obviously bigger.  If he reaches Garland’s 5v5 production and chippiness/ability to draw penalties I think we’ll be pretty happy.  I wouldn’t expect it next year, though.  
 

Boeser is paid like our best winger - will be interesting to see if he can reclaim the title.  I think the best we’ve seen from him is better than Garland or Podkolzin - he just had a rough year last year.  Of his 5 seasons with the team he’s led the group in points twice. 

 

 

24 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

To be honest, I view an effective 3rd line actually *more* important than an effective 2nd line in a "traditional hockey sense".  An effective (defensive) 3rd line will provide more 'benefits' for the club than a "complementary offensive support 2nd line".  Especially since this team already has a legit 1st line (and not just because "somebody" has to play on the 1st line).

Sure, but I don’t see Garland as that kind of a 3rd liner. 
 

If we trade Miller I wonder if we’d be better off finding a “shutdown” 3C or a more offensively oriented guy.  Petey and Horvat aren’t great 2 way guys but I think they can do it, especially if Mikhayev is out there. OTOH bring in a shutdown guy and we know those two can produce.  

As it stands with Miller, we have 3 lines that can attack and match up any way - I guess Bo is the “3rd line” but not in that shutdown sense. 
 

Combined with a 4th line that looks like it can easily handle 12 minutes a night there’s a lot of options for the forward group. 

[grandmaster]

2 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Hey, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it.  

 

While I was doing some research this morning I came across a Drance article from March that made my arguments and put how I feel much more eloquently than I ever could. I'll add it at the bottom of this post. (I know, I agree with Drance about something, gross right, I feel dirty). Here's my far less articulate version with my other opinions and examples.

 

You make some really good points and you are right, I agree he is a valuable leader but just not close to captain material for me. I agree that JT is emotional, but for me he's way too emotional, he can't control himself and at times, to me atleast, can come across as a spoiled child throwing a temper tantrum.

 

As I said in an earlier post, we've all seen him on the ice yelling and swearing when things don't go his way, he's lazy on his backchecks and he'll casually glide to bench for a change when the other team is gaining our zone on the rush. Now I'm not saying he does these things all the time but he does have a tendency towards them and these are not good signs of a leader to me, also these are all things that the coaches in Abbotsford are specifically trying to get out of Klimovich's game.

 

As I said before I do really think he is a good leader but sometimes he just does and says things that really bug me and show that he can't be a captain. The video interview you posted is a perfect example of this. I agree 100% with what he's doing and his overall message about how unfair the whole situation was and think it's great he spoke up. My problem with the interview, and I'm summarizing the dialogue obviously, is when Drance asked his follow up question about how it felt for JT knowing he didn't get Covid and so many of his teammates did and JT starts out with a great answer saying he felt sympathetic and kind of guilty but then it takes a hard turn for me when he immediately follows it up with "but all I can think about" is how is he supposed to be expected to come out and perform with no real practice and warmup time after this much time off.

 

For me, true leadership is when the team came back from Covid and Bo, who actually had Covid and didn't get any extra skating time that JT admitted he got while the team was off, came out and absolutely dominated the best team in the division. Bo let his play on the ice do all the talking for him that game, 2 goals including the OT winner and 3 points in a 3-2 game. JT's stat line: -1, 2PIM, 1shot. For me that fires the team up and gets the testosterone flowing far more than some guy swearing and slamming his stick cuz he missed a pass. Also, as I mentioned before, I've never seen JT carry a team through a playoff round but I've seen Bo do it.

 

As for off ice leadership, it was Bo that brought the team together in a players only meeting and took a vote, then brought the whole team down the hall to talk to Ryan Reaves at the Golden Knights dressing room and see how he wanted to proceed, then go out front and center with Reaves to put out the statement that they wouldn't be playing that night in response to George Floyd's death. That's a true leader.

 

Again, I wish that it made sense to keep JT without having to gut our depth, which for forwards at least is the best I've seen in about a decade, but with the cap most likely staying down its much better to use his value to help balance out our D and make it so our remaining forwards don't have to outscore that deficiency.

 

Apologies for the length lol and here's the article I mentioned at the start (sorry for formatting, I'm on mobile):

 

When the Vancouver Canucks needed him on Tuesday night against the New Jersey Devils, Bo Horvat stepped up.

That’s no surprise to anybody, or shouldn’t be if you’ve watched Horvat’s Canucks career unfold.

That’s just who he is. Horvat is the type of player, the type of person, that steps up.

He’s been the standard-bearer for this franchise through a fitful, messy rebuild. He’s said the right things and gone about his business with a work rate and maturity that’s beyond reproach.

He’s improved his game, donned the captain’s “C,” navigated a complicated hockey market with a Sedin-level level of authenticity as a spokesperson, and he’s consistently elevated his game when the chips are down and the leverage is highest.

So, why is Horvat so frequently overlooked in Vancouver? Why is this plugged-in, voracious hockey market always in search of the new hotness?

Why are we so focused on what Horvat isn’t? He’s never likely to be a Selke finalist, he’s not a top playmaker, he’s never quite figured out the penalty kill — as opposed to what he is?

On Tuesday, Horvat provided a reminder of what he can do.

Playing with new linemates, he’s always playing with new linemates, Horvat scored the go-ahead goal with a rush slap shot shortly after the New Jersey Devils tied the game.

The Devils were pressing, cycling in the Vancouver end. But it was Horvat that made the defensive play to strip Tomas Tatar of the puck, skated down the left wing and uncorked a big wind up and a heavy, low shot.

It was a shot that Devils goaltender Nico Daws should’ve stopped. Horvat joked after the game that it was the first time he’d ever scored on a slapper in the NHL. That’s pretty impressive because the sensors clocked the shot at 96 miles per hour.

The shot was fast enough to be an absolute backbreaker. The sort of goal that caused the entire Devils bench to sag, and sure enough, Vancouver scored the game-winner moments later, chasing Daws from the game.

When the Devils battled back and were pressing early in the third period, down a goal on the power play with a double minor and a chance to tie it, it was Horvat again that provided the insurance with a delicious bar down finish short-handed.

Like clockwork, Horvat stepped up.

Postgame, Canucks coach Bruce Boudreau referred to the performance as an indication that Horvat is a “true captain.” And yet the conversation in this market has been so focused on J.T. Miller’s leadership. His work setting “the standard” for this club.

It’s perhaps inevitable that the more demonstrative personality soaks up so much oxygen, something Horvat acknowledges with a joke, laughing when The Athletic asked him on Tuesday night about the leadership dynamic between him and Miller within the room.

“I might be a little bit nicer than J.T.,” Horvat laughs. “He’s just so passionate, he wants to win, he wants to be the best and he wants to have success here. And so do I.”

The fact is though, is that the two more than coexist within the environment of this club. Miller is a valuable piece, a key personality. Make no mistake, Miller would chafe under the obligations of wearing the “C” in this market over time, where Horvat handles it with grace.

Horvat, meanwhile, needs Miller’s edge in the room.

“J.T. is a hell of a player,” Horvat says. “He’s playing unbelievable right now and we need him to win. Everybody realizes that. I realize that.

“And I need him to step up in the room. I talk quite a bit and sometimes guys are like ‘Jeez, Bo, shut up.’ I don’t know if guys actually feel that way, but it feels that way to me sometimes.

“To have a different voice to step up sometimes and say things — and there’s other guys too, like Tyler Myers and Tanner Pearson — but that balance between J.T. and I, we have similar thoughts and similar mindsets about how we want to play as a team. Having a guy that I can lean on night in and night out is huge.”

Horvat, meanwhile, has been the subject of almost constant criticism of late. Questions fill the inbox at Sportsnet 650 on a regular basis, about why Horvat’s considered a core piece, but Miller isn’t.

That criticism reached a fever pitch after Horvat missed a run of games in COVID-19 protocol in January. Left behind in the United States for a stretch, Horvat struggled significantly on his return. Over eight games between January 29 and February 19, he managed just three points in eight games.

The criticism grew. Became voluminous. The criticism reached a level where Horvat had to unplug. Had to get back to basics, and just focus on himself.

“I try not to look at that kind of stuff, because it does, it mentally weighs on people,” Horvat says of stickhandling the criticism that struggling players endure in Vancouver.

“I knew I wasn’t playing good enough, I knew I wasn’t myself, so I just kind of blocked out everything. Not that I deleted my Twitter, but I logged out of all social media. I just thought, I need to take a step back, think about myself as a person, my game, where I’m at. And not worry about what other people think and what other people are saying.

“Honestly, it saved me. It did. It really did.

“Mentally I just focused on me, didn’t care what anybody else said, decided that I’m just going to go out and play. It’s kind of gone from there.”

Meanwhile, Horvat was working through a physical lethargy from his bout with the Omicron variant. The physical aftershocks, honestly, left him stunned.

“I don’t know whether it was COVID or because I had 10 days off and everyone is in midseason form and that’s the worst time to get it, and I was on the road away from everyone. It was probably mental a little bit, just mentally exhausted from everything, but I’m not going to lie: I did feel it physically,” Horvat told The Athletic. “I was actually shocked, when we all came back from when we all had COVID last year, and returned against the Leafs, it didn’t affect my lungs as much as it did this time. I feel way better now, and obviously … I mean you can tell.”

Considering that Horvat has put his post-COVID-19 struggles behind him, recording 14 points in his last 10 games, we can definitely tell.

Overall it was surprising to Horvat — who is fully vaccinated under NHL protocols — that he felt more lingering effects from this bout with COVID-19 in January of 2022 than he did seven months prior during Vancouver’s first team-level outbreak.

“Yeah it affected my game quite a bit, a lot more than I thought it would,” Horvat says. “Especially my lungs and my legs. I didn’t feel near myself, even though I had hardly any symptoms — cough, runny nose — but after that it took me a while to get my legs again, my wind and my timing. I don’t know if it takes away your hockey sense a little bit, but it felt like it.”

Horvat is healthy now. He’s the hottest player on one of the NHL’s hottest teams.

He’s got a chance to step up again, to play a key role for a team that’s going to be playing in a run of high-stakes games in the weeks and months to come. He wants a chance to see it through.

Now, no one believes that Canucks hockey operations leadership will behave like a typical seller at the deadline. Not now that they’re just a point removed from the second wild-card spot in the Western Conference.

Still, with the deadline looming, we asked Horvat the big question on everyone’s minds for another five days before the March 21 NHL trade deadline: “Has this team earned the right to see how far they can take this run?”

“Personally I think we have,” Horvat answered. “We’ve always had this in our room, it was just a matter of … I don’t know what.

“Nothing has really changed since the beginning of the year, we’ve had it all along, it was just about changing our mindset and getting it through to us. We all have belief in what we can do and we’ve proven night in and night out that we can play with any team and beat any team. It feels good to be in the position that we’re in now.

“Now it’s not up to me and I’m not telling anybody what to do, but it feels like we’re on a bit of a run and I want to see how far we can take this.”

(Top photo of Bo Horvat: Jeff Vinnick / NHLI via Getty Images)

Drance is an idiot and you can never have “too much emotion”, especially on a team like ours that had too many players that had no emotion. He goes on about Miller not being able to handle the “C” but he already is…unofficially. No one here dislikes Horvat, everyone loves him. It’s just Miller is better; all the stats showed it and we saw first hand how many times he willed victories. No one drives the play better than Miller on this team.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, grandmaster said:

Drance is an idiot and you can never have “too much emotion”, especially on a team like ours that had too many players that had no emotion. He goes on about Miller not being able to handle the “C” but he already is…unofficially. No one here dislikes Horvat, everyone loves him. It’s just Miller is better; all the stats showed it and we saw first hand how many times he willed victories. No one drives the play better than Miller on this team.

this Miller with 'too much emotion' thing is badly overblown. I doubt the players mind one bit. 

[Jester13]

2 minutes ago, JM_ said:

this Miller with 'too much emotion' thing is badly overblown. I doubt the players mind one bit. 

I've also said before how I feel as though Miller grew as a person, player, and leader under Bruce, so any moments pre-Bruce where he showed "too much emotion" should be taken with a grain of salt, as he showed that he can be a fiery personality that his teammates can get behind. 

[JM_]

Just now, Jester13 said:

I've also said before how I feel as though Miller grew as a person, player, and leader under Bruce, so any moments pre-Bruce where he showed "too much emotion" should be taken with a grain of salt, as he showed that he can be a fiery personality that his teammates can get behind. 

yup Bruce did take him under his wing I think. 

 

This thread reminds me of doing donuts in the winter in a SK parking lot. Fun for a while, you don't really get anywhere and probably used too much gas on it. 

[Jester13]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

yup Bruce did take him under his wing I think. 

 

This thread reminds me of doing donuts in the winter in a SK parking lot. Fun for a while, you don't really get anywhere and probably used too much gas on it. 

[Coconuts]

23 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Drance is an idiot and you can never have “too much emotion”, especially on a team like ours that had too many players that had no emotion. He goes on about Miller not being able to handle the “C” but he already is…unofficially. No one here dislikes Horvat, everyone loves him. It’s just Miller is better; all the stats showed it and we saw first hand how many times he willed victories. No one drives the play better than Miller on this team.

Now if only you could convince the rest of the roster the way you've convinced yourself 

 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

So it's speculation. Nobody knows the numbers. They're far apart but both sides have said they're trying to make it work.

The numbers may be speculation (though I think we can ascertain with some amount of certainty the ballparks the two parties are in), but the "far apart" isn't.

 

"Far apart" (and again, plain logic) would tend to indicate that it's less likely we extend him than do. But carry on with whatever mental gymnastics you require...

[Coconuts]

Seriously. Miller? The unofficial captain of the Vancouver Canucks? Get real. If you were to run into every single Canuck in the street and ask them if Miller were the unofficial captain I'd put money down on every single one of them, including Miller himself, backing Horvat. What a ridiculous talking point. 

 

Nobody's arguing Miller ain't talented or that he doesn't contribute to the room in a leadership role, but unofficial captain? Come on. Like Miller? Want him around? Go ahead, but please get a clue regarding the Canucks captaincy. 

 

Like come on, let's see what the brass themselves have said. Bo is the captain, that's how management sees it and both JR and Al are involved in trying to retain him as such. You have multiple guys who step up on every team, a few assistant captains too, but only one captain. 

 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I seriously cannot believe so many are just fine with losing Miller for nothing after years of whining about JB letting players walk.  

There are still people talking about how Benning set this franchise back years by letting Tanev and Markstrom walk for nothing and trading Toffoli for picks and prospects and then also letting him walk for nothing. 
 

Now it’s no big deal if we just let Miller walk for nothing. It’s almost like people are brainwashed into believing that is how cup contenders are built. Did Colorado or Tampa ever let so many elite players walk for nothing?  How do you actually build a prospect pool and be able to get good young players on ELC contracts if all you do is let your star players walk away in free agency with nothing back in return?  It’s mind boggling really. 
 

Tampa didn’t want or need Miller so they got rid of him and got some good assets in return. Miller is literally our best forward right now but people are okay with letting him walk for nothing. Unbelievable. 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Seriously. Miller? The unofficial captain of the Vancouver Canucks? Get real. If you were to run into every single Canuck in the street and ask them if Miller were the unofficial captain I'd put money down on every single one of them, including Miller himself, backing Horvat. What a ridiculous talking point. 

 

Nobody's arguing Miller ain't talented or that he doesn't contribute to the room in a leadership role, but unofficial captain? Come on. Like Miller? Want him around? Go ahead, but please get a clue regarding the Canucks captaincy. 

 

Like come on, let's see what the brass themselves have said. Bo is the captain, that's how management sees it and both JR and Al are involved in trying to retain him as such. You have multiple guys who step up on every team, a few assistant captains too, but only one captain. 

 

 

 

We all love our Ox but if he costs more than 6.5 in cap allocation put him in a wagon and ship him off to Buffalo.  

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

depends on the player. 

"Usually"

 

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

I absolutely get it.   To me Miller is a great player and almost exactly what i hope for in a a Canuck.  That's really tough (and rough!) to ignore.   And don't think it's the end of the world IF we just let things play out with him in the lineup, and the exchange is playoffs.   And then give him a nice send off see you later, enjoy your legacy deal (somewhere else).   
 

It's not going to ruin this team for sure,  so many different things have been said about how he's been an inspiration...Podz most recently, looking at him, and what it's like to be a pro and play 26 minutes a game down the stretch where he was trying to keep his legs going with his minutes.    Bruce i'm sure enjoys having him too. 

 

Guess i've reached the acceptance stage.   Wanted to move Pearson and whatever we could during the bubble.   Didn't happen.     Given what happened after Allvin took over, it looks like they are willing to be patient with this team as well.    Have big doubts EP is ready to take on his role next season.   Actually think Horvat needs to take over his insulation role IF Miller isn't in the lineup. 

 

Sometimes the best way forward is just to let the chips fall where they may.   Obviously no team has offered up anything that moves the needle enough or a trade would have already been made.   Kept saying this during the Bruce bump and down the stretch, maybe this year he's so good the value gets where it needs to be.    Last season, and if anyone can correct me with actual facts - the trade return was all B.S., and became so constant that some on this site started to believe a reliable source existed where i sure couldn't find any.   NYR wasn't and didn't offer up Schnieder for example.

 

Maybe that changes.   Sure could have used Miller last playoffs.    

 

As for his deal...well sure some crazy ones again this summer.   Good thing for us and other teams, the overall available cap is becoming so slim .... that guys up next season probably take a long time to hash out by the time UFA season roles around.   Millers and Horvats camp i'm sure are aware of this, same with every other guy who can sign now.    It's a GM advantage that likely makes next UFA season a total slog. 

 

Unfortunately for us, i don't see much Miller action anytime soon.   And if i had to make an actual bet, i'd say unless it happens before the season, better chance it doesn't happen at all.   Pretty sure EP Miller ?? will be our top line again too.   Glut of forwards allows for it.   And that the owners, would prefer a playoff run over a 48-63 million dollar commitment and don't blame them for that either.     

 

Won't be the first guy we've had and wished we had longer (Larionov, Courtnall, Walker, Peca, Nedved, Ronning, Neely, Fraser even Nedved at the time etc )  of those guys Larionov and Courtnall were a similar age though.  

 

This is when the cap gets pretty frustrating.   If we didn't have Demko i'd be all in for a COL style re-set.    

 

This is the philosophy I'm having trouble stomaching:

 

Guess i've reached the acceptance stage

It's not going to ruin this team for sure

 

So this is how we're basing decision making now? It shouldn't hurt the team that much is our new goal? That just seems ... like really bad judgement. I would fire anyone that worked for my company for that type behavior. That's just laying down without a fight or belief in yourself and your organization. It's like who cares, we're so impatient we don't care about anything anymore except spending as much as possible and just blindly pushing forward at breakneck speed. Just go for it who cares about our future or reality.

 

I don't know if this is where this is coming from but I feel impatient in the sense that the last 3 years weren't even real to me and TB's Cups have a big asterisk on them imo. The bubble wasn't real hockey at all and the final against Montreal was the first semblance of real hockey during that 2 year period. However that season, and this previous season were both total garbage due to Covid. So many teams missing many players over huge chunks of time. So yeah I'm dying for real hockey too but I'm not willing to sacrifice the team for impatience due to an uncontrollable situation.

 

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Agree for the most part except that nothing could be a sad sack of potatoes that rubs us as fans for awhile.   It does happen.   Trade flops and we waste cap on whomever comes here.   Unlikely but possible.    And the nothing isn't nothing if it means we make the playoffs and our guys get valuable experience.    Pretty sure if Miller has another boffo season the city and province will be buzzing come April with anticipation.     To me at least, a solid showing next Spring, plus his cap back and a nice see you later is more then worth the price paid for him.   

 

Not saying that's my preference, just pointing out it's not so terrible either.  Have zero issues just enjoying him for one more year.    And no i'm not Jim Benning lol.  

 

Not a fan of a re-sign unless it's 8-8.5 x 6 which also would be ok.   By the time Miller fades,  EP will be ready to take over.     If we had EP, Demko, QHs locked in full term things would be different.   We don't.    Will be interesting to see which lane Allvin takes.   Not holding my breath for a big return though, i've been consistent with that since last season.   But do understand best possible case is we do trade him, and those guys work out really well for us so get where your coming from and others in the trade Miller camp.    All 3 scenarios have their pro's and con's.   Tough to pull a huge piece out of the lineup if we are playing as well as we did down the stretch or better until the TDL though.   Really doubt he's traded in that case.   Preferably if it's going to happen, it needs to happen before the puck drops in October. 

Of course all trades could be nothing but that shouldn't stop you from trying. I mean this is a pretty common move in the NHL and some folks are making it seem like some stupid act of desperation when in fact this is how you generate assets in the NHL. If a middling team is struggling to get better what should a GM do if not trading expiring players for assets?

 

Sure, playoffs (possibly) and a buzz in April is a plus for the team and city but one must remember we also kept Tanev, Edler, Marky, Pearson, etc.. We also kept the Sedin's and didn't get any assets for them either. It's time to make a forward thinking decision for once instead of only thinking about today.