Have you given up on this season. Let's take a poll!

[Canckelhead]

5 hours ago, Kootenay Gold said:

Anyone who has already given up on this team is not a true fan. Way to early to call the season a write off. I recall a St. Louis team a few years back that were, for all intents and purposes, out of the playoff picture and stormed back after the new year with a 24-6-4 record and went on to win the cup.

Anyone who thinks being mediocre for the next decade is not a true fan. 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Well the fans that want us to draft Bedard won't be too upset with a loss..

Let's be honest here.  We all want success.

 

But.

 

if the outcome of the season is to draft 11th through 15th where the prizes are

 

Bedard

Michkov

Fantelli

Carlson

 

Then why have we mortgaged more futures for mediocrity?  I suggest we look towards what the Ducks did and see where we are in March.  Once the injuries happened and the cupboards were looked at the then; 2nd in the division ducks sold off assets by the bucketful like they had the previous two seasons and finished with yet another incredibly high pick.

 

That is what our model should be.  Try to succeed and if we know the outcome is mediocrity, make the hard decision.

[Master Mind]

28 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

As one of the most emotional people on this forum I feel this. I've been hated on alot. when one person throws shade, I usually can't handle it. But when it happens again and again and maybe even teamed up on I likely will crack.

 

however the "See, I told you" so comment never helps and is something that everyone should work on including myself. Wanting to get redemption will not work with this method.

 

emotions are difficult to master, especially for some more than others. That said I'm not accusing you, just to be clear, just that I understand.

 

I have thrown alot of shade in this forum, most recently at @AV.. I apologize for this. I usually make this type of shade when i feel I cannot win the argument, feel i'm right and get angry I can't win. This is not cool from me.

 

I wish you no hate, have a great day.

 

We've all done the "told you so" at some point in our lives. You're correct, it is never helpful. As a husband, I'm well aware how saying that always makes it worse

 

It's human nature though. People want to been proven right when they've been attacked. It's too bad things get that way in the first place, and I'm sorry to hear the toll it takes on you.

 

If everyone were a little more open and understanding to the ideas of others, that would go a long way.

 

Even though it's directed at @AV. and not towards me, I respect you apologizing and acknowledging when you've made a mistake. It takes a stronger person to do that, and shows you want to strive to be better. Cheers

[-DLC-]

17 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

we are all going to be cheering for the win

If this was the case we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

Lately some are criticizing those of us celebrating the wins because it's not part of their "plan".  Taking some heat for it so if it is "supposed to be a melting pot of different ideas" that includes all ideas. Some speak with an air of superiority in hockey knowledge but it doesn't wash because their opinions are like ours...just opinions. We all know/love hockey.

 

Even homers who live and die by the team have a place here but sometimes we have to fight HARD against the naysayers. It's become cool to go against the grain these days and that's part of it. 

 

But it's ok to be loyal to this team. It's a Canucks fan forum, first and foremost. All opinions ARE welcome but if you start trashing the fans and calling them stupid (some have recently) that's not what it's about.

 

I've been kicked off sports forums where you can't mutter a single bad word against the team hosting the site. This place is way more welcoming/lenient than many others.

 

 

[Westcoasting]

Does anyone go to the games, just wondering and curious. I go to about 6!to 8 games a year and it is certainly a different vibe inside the arena from fans. Not that either is wrong or right but everyone I talk to at the stadium is a lot more positive than a lot of the negativity here on the forum.I think the internet brings out a different view of a team.

[inane]

Just now, -DLC- said:

If this was the case we wouldn't be discussing it.

 

Lately some are criticizing those of us celebrating the wins because it's not part of their "plan".  Taking some heat for it so if it is "supposed to be a melting pot of different ideas" that includes all ideas. Even homers who live and die by the team and don't care to be armchair gm's because it's just futile to us. Changes nothing. So we opt to cheer for the team.

 

It's a Canucks fan forum, first and foremost. All opinions ARE welcome but if you start trashing the fans and calling them stupid (some have recently) that's not what it's about.

 

I've been kicked off sports forums where you can't mutter a single bad word against the team hosting the site. This place is way more welcoming than many others.

 

 

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, Westcoasting said:

Does anyone go to the games, just wondering and curious. I go to about 6!to 8 games a year and it is certainly a different vibe inside the arena from fans. Not that either is wrong or right but everyone I talk to at the stadium is a lot more positive than a lot of the negativity here on the forum.I think the internet brings out a different view of a team.

Yes...I notice it too. It's refreshing...none of this stuff filters in and it's a great atmosphere. Sure, when times are really tough you get the chants and jersey throws but, all in all, it's a whole different ballgame. People are there for enjoyment and entertainment...to have a good time win and lose. It gets lost on the internet at times for sure.

[-DLC-]

3 minutes ago, inane said:

I know, I know...I'm still here blabbering away (was going for a bike ride but I put the recycling out and it's cold out there...wimper)

[Bad_BOI_pete]

16 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

The BPA by some lists also had Virtanen and Juolevi at the appropriate spots.  They also had Nolan Patrick (Stefan) at #1 and Makar as not even the best defenceman available in his draft.  Opinions are just that.

We had and continue to have needs that NEED to be addressed and have been ignored since 2012.  We have drafted 11 total RHD since 2003.  

 

Lekkerimaki is a prospect and project and will or will not make this team in due time, but when he does he will be one of numerous wingers fighting for a spot whereas we will still need to address the exact same holes that have existed for over a decade.

I agree we need to draft D more now than ever.

 

however some people myself included think drafting BPA or at least very close to it, as always the best option in the first round. Maybe we should be trying to trade up or down in these situations, Probably.

[Provost]

I am the one that gets heat when I put a post every (unfortunately every year lately) when we drop to between 20-25% chance to make the playoffs.

 

The 20 game mark is where it starts to matter, or when you get to the point where you can’t even get to .500 by the 20 game mark (like 15 games in with just 7 points under your belt).

 

It is important to note, and quite a few people don’t get this, that giving up on a season isn’t hating the team or being negative.  It is just moving your horizon to the next year or later when the team has a more realistic shot at winning.  GMs do this every year with deadline buyers and sellers.  Unfortunately they also have to look out for their jobs in the short term so unless the team is truly awful, they hold onto increasingly unlikely remote playoff hopes even in the face of long odds.  That means they make bad decisions chasing a forlorn hope that cost the franchise opportunity in future years.

 

It isn’t impossible for the team to make the playoffs and we have a couple weeks to see where we sit. 

 

Having said that, I don’t really care about chasing the chance of a 1st round defeat.  Nothing the team has shown for a long time suggests to me that this is a Stanley Cup roster.  This is also the best version of this roster we will see as we owe raises to useful and currently underpaid players over the next successive seasons, meaning no cavalry coming on the horizon.

 

I would happily give up on the season (and the next couple) if management decided to go on a FULL rebuild including Hughes, Petterson, Demko, and upwards in age.  Projecting forward it just doesn’t seem like there is a realistic path to a Cup before we start losing guys like Petterson to UFA.

[-DLC-]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Let's be honest here.  We all want success.

 

But.

 

if the outcome of the season is to draft 11th through 15th where the prizes are

 

Bedard

Michkov

Fantelli

Carlson

 

Then why have we mortgaged more futures for mediocrity?  I suggest we look towards what the Ducks did and see where we are in March.  Once the injuries happened and the cupboards were looked at the then; 2nd in the division ducks sold off assets by the bucketful like they had the previous two seasons and finished with yet another incredibly high pick.

 

That is what our model should be.  Try to succeed and if we know the outcome is mediocrity, make the hard decision.

You're wanting saviours for the team...we want a team to build toward something. Chemistry and familiarity matter too and giving the team a chance to show themselves before judging is important. Tanking 9 games in ? Come on. Getting "a" pick isn't always the golden ticket. Things all have to line up at the right time and there are some variables you can't predict. You don't "aim" for a pick through losing.

 

You're citing an example and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Even teams with multiple #1/top 3 picks aren't there so it's not guaranteed. 

 

I do agree that trading picks off isn't the wisest...but later rounds really are quite insignificant if you're getting NHL ready players that you need in the moment.

 

What did the Ducks do? Did they win the cup?

 

If making the hard decision is tanking...nope. No competitive athlete is going to do that because they're putting their faith in another guy. They want to be that guy. 

[JM_]

46 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Oh def, and I always knew it would be, it's just discouraging that we didn't do anything to address our defense at all.

well, lets give Bear a chance. If he's legit 2nd pair RHD quality then thats one pice of the puzzle off the board. And they kept Rathbone, who may also be another key piece. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

We went into the season knowing Poolman might not be a sure thing, knowing it was a weakness. Management said they tried, they looked, but like we were discussing yesterday they flubbed it. I believe they went too hard on forwards way too quickly. 

 

I understand Mikheyev will help our two way game, and so does Lazar, but I'd have rather had actual upgrades on D over either of them. The lack of addressing our biggest weakness directly was disappointing and I'd argue that if we had maybe wouldn't have given up so many comeback wins off the hop. 

 

We did keep our 1st though, I do give them credit for that. I was worried we'd move it for the third year in a row. 

I just don't think we had that many options to upgrade. The big stand out is missing out on Marino, that one is weird to me. 

[AV.]

54 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

As one of the most emotional people on this forum I feel this. I've been hated on alot. when one person throws shade, I usually can't handle it. But when it happens again and again and maybe even teamed up on I likely will crack.

 

however the "See, I told you" so comment never helps and is something that everyone should work on including myself. Wanting to get redemption will not work with this method.

 

emotions are difficult to master, especially for some more than others. That said I'm not accusing you, just to be clear, just that I understand.

 

I have thrown alot of shade in this forum, most recently at @AV.. I apologize for this. I usually make this type of shade when i feel I cannot win the argument, feel i'm right and get angry I can't win. This is not cool from me.

 

I wish you no hate, have a great day.

 

 

 

 

Apology accepted. 

Perhaps, it might bring you comfort to know that your "shade" actually pales in comparison to the some of the abuse I've received on this forum, most of which has come in the last two or three years.  A select few on here have not shied away from personal insults, cheap, inflammatory jabs, and in one instance, a death threat.  I should state that it doesn't really bother me (people here are ultimately strangers, so it wouldn't make sense to take a whole lot of offence from those remarks), but I find it disturbing since we're all Canucks, no?  On a family site?

Admittedly, it's been tough to see the forum I grew up with, and came to love, deteriorate to this state, but, like Jared McCann, I accept it is what it is.  As it was suggested, there was a time when actual trolls existed.  The Shawn Rockers, the Steve Bennetts, the Tiger Singhs, the StinkyMetals, so on and so forth.  Those users lived to cause chaos and antagonize Canucks fans.  They had no interest in cheering for the team or engaging in discourse, much less treating the people on this forum with any respect.  Somewhere along the lines, this definition of trolls extended into people who see the team differently from those who choose to see it positively.  It's not a matter of minority vs majority; rather, in an effort to preserve positivity, this group antagonize those who don't meet that standard.  I know this because I see the statements all the time about how this place "can't become like Twitter or HF".  Funny that - I see takes or opinions in those diasporas all the time that I disagree with.  It never once occurred to me that I "have" to interact with these people and tell them how wrong they are, how vile they are, etc.  Why?  Because I accept that's how it works.  People say things and you can ignore it and not bother wasting energy.  Even the most ridiculous of takes - there's nothing binding me to prove that person "wrong" or attempt to change them. For me, let them be as ill-informed or wrong as they want.  No conflicts.  If anything, it demonstrates the true power and control of a mature person looking to engage in discourse.

But, as I said, for this place, sometimes it's not just about the opinions, but rather, it's about preserving the positivity that these opinions seemingly threaten and compromise.  For example, is there anything wrong with people saying this team is a not playoff-bound team?  Of course not.  But to those who desperately want this team to be a playoff one and who desperately hope and believe for the best results possible, it's way easier to abuse those saying these opinions rather than simply coming to terms with the reality in front of them because what they're saying, threatens what they want to believe about the team.

Anyways, this has been a long post.  I'll leave you with this - if I have ever "hated" on you, or thrown shade, I'd like to apologize in return.

Hope this helps.

Edited November 1, 2022 by AV.

[JM_]

25 minutes ago, Petey_BOI said:

I think so too.

 

Call me crazy (I am) But what if Management didn't see any of the UFA options as long term solutions. Instead, rather stocking up on forwards and making a trade at somepoint in  the future. 

 

This strategy makes sense to me, Throwing dollars at someone who would only be a stop gap, would just complicate things.

 

 

that does seem to be something they are at least prepared for. JR did say we may need to move a "popular" forward some time soon. 

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, lets give Bear a chance. If he's legit 2nd pair RHD quality then thats one pice of the puzzle off the board. And they kept Rathbone, who may also be another key piece. 

 

 

I just don't think we had that many options to upgrade. The big stand out is missing out on Marino, that one is weird to me. 

I will, though I question Rathbone. He's getting to the age where there's a good chance he may simply be what he is. He had a great year in the AHL last season but he's also marching towards being 24. He needs to prove he belongs sooner than later or he risks being looked at as just complimentary depth, which has it's place of course. Sooner or later a prospect ages out of being considered a prospect, he's closing in on that. Maybe he proves to be a keeper, but if he's gonna do it I reckon he'll need to show progression this season. 

 

As for Bear, at least he's more than gotten his feet wet. I question what kind of upside he's got but he's probably at least a third pairing guy, which isn't bad. But we've got options there. We'll see what he can do over the remainder of the season, but while folks need to give him a chance I also caution folks against hyping him up as a guy who'll step in and play top 4. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but there's no guarantee. 

 

Yeah, the Marino bit stings. He'd have been a perfect fit for a guy like Hughes. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Coconuts

[VanCan2023]

Not sure if this has been said already, but the general concesence is you need to be around 2 wins out of a playoff spot by American Thanksgiving. (Nov 24th) to realistically be in contention for a playoff berth. Unless we are a freak of nature 2019 Blues team, and the way teams above us are getting points, it's hard to imagine van salvaging this season into a playoff appearance. 

 

I believe this team has already showed us what there make up is. When there is a bit of a change they temporarily get hot, but quickly cool off when that change gets stale. 

 

 

[Mr. Quacks]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

I'm kind of tired of being treated like I know nothing about this game because I am loyal to one team. I just accept them with their flaws as I know it's a moving target and sometimes they can work their way through slumps...last year showed us that. 

 

I'm not sure any of us are experts that would have this thing nailed down if only they would get us behind the bench. It looks easier on paper but doesn't always play out that way. 

 

We're not as bad as some here would have us believe. They disappear when we start winning though.

 

But truth be told, I get so tired of this blahblahblah back and forth. 

 

 

I don't disagree with you because you are a Canucks fan, I disagree with you because your diehard Canuck's fandom, along with many others, biases your view of the state of this team and its players, so much to the point that you call others trolls and not real fans because they don't accept the flaws you do. Try adding something of more substance here to contribute to the discussion. 

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I will, though I question Rathbone. He's getting to the age where there's a good chance he may simply be what he is. He had a great year in the AHL last season but he's also marching towards being 24. He needs to prove he belongs sooner than later or he risks being looked at as just complimentary depth, which has it's place of course. Sooner or later a prospect ages out of being considered a prospect, he's closing in on that. Maybe he proves to be a keeper, but if he's gonna do it I reckon he'll need to show progression this season. 

 

As for Bear, at least he's more than gotten his feet wet. I question what kind of upside he's got but he's probably at least a third pairing guy, which isn't bad. But we've got options there. We'll see what he can do over the remainder of the season, but while folks need to give him a chance I also caution folks against hyping him up as a guy who'll step in and play top 4. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but there's no guarantee. 

 

Yeah, the Marino bit stings. He'd have been a perfect fit for a guy like Hughes. 

I guess JR/PA must figure Rathbone will be as good/effective as Marino sooner than later, but there's still the issue of a lack of RHD depth. My spidey sense tells me we don't have all the details, or maybe JR just sat on his balls on this one. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

14 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

You're wanting saviours for the team...we want a team to build toward something. Chemistry and familiarity matter too and giving the team a chance to show themselves before judging is important. Tanking 9 games in ? Come on. Getting "a" pick isn't always the golden ticket. Things all have to line up at the right time and there are some variables you can't predict. You don't "aim" for a pick through losing.

 

You're citing an example and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Even teams with multiple #1/top 3 picks aren't there so it's not guaranteed. 

 

I do agree that trading picks off isn't the wisest...but later rounds really are quite insignificant if you're getting NHL ready players that you need in the moment.

 

What did the Ducks do? Did they win the cup?

 

If making the hard decision is tanking...nope. No competitive athlete is going to do that because they're putting their faith in another guy. They want to be that guy. 

I actually had a great post regarding teams that had bad decades or close to and where they are at now.  It was put as a side by side for the Canucks.  In their decades vs ours, we actually hold the 3rd worst winning percentage.  Out of all of those teams, Arizona is the only one still mired (and honestly Bettman just move them already)

 

While there is no magic recipe, there is a proven record regarding teams that went for it vs teams that prolonged it.

[AV.]

5 minutes ago, VanCan2023 said:

Not sure if this has been said already, but the general concesence is you need to be around 2 wins out of a playoff spot by American Thanksgiving. (Nov 24th) to realistically be in contention for a playoff berth. Unless we are a freak of nature 2019 Blues team, and the way teams above us are getting points, it's hard to imagine van salvaging this season into a playoff appearance. 

 

I believe this team has already showed us what there make up is. When there is a bit of a change they temporarily get hot, but quickly cool off when that change gets stale. 

 

 

To add to that, the Blues are the anomaly in every sense of the word.  They had been a consistent playoff team for years prior, not one like ours trying to break the cusp, while struggling to address the ailing holes it's had for multiple seasons.