Have you given up on this season. Let's take a poll!

[aGENT]

Just now, JM_ said:

they may yet do that. I suspect thats exactly what will happen with Brock, e.g. 

Here's hoping... needs to get healthy and show he can be productive though. If we had just not signed him/moved him for a 2nd or something last year, we likely could have already added Marino this summer.

[Coconuts]

20 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I get the logic of all of that for sure. I'd go even further with the rebuild if we chose that path. 

 

But what I don't understand is why you expected Rutherford to go that way? he never once talked about rebuilding in this way that I heard. He always seemed to be on the tack of working with the core, always talked about liking Miller and wanting to keep him.

 

It wasn't an expectation but it was certainly a hope. He came in and said a lot of things I agreed with, he alluded to popular or core players maybe being shipped out. He discussed wanting to get younger and hold on to picks. He said he wanted to address our defense. It seemed like what he had to say aligned with a lot of what I believed. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

It wasn't an expectation but it was certainly a hope. He came in and said a lot of things I agreed with, he alluded to popular or core players maybe being shipped out. He discussed wanting to get younger and hold on to picks. He said he wanted to address our defense. It seemed like what he had to say aligned with a lot of what I believed. 

well, we did hold on to our 1st round pick so that bucked a trend 

 

With so many thing to try to fix, the cap, the defence, the inefficient salary players, this was always going to be at least a two year fix. 

[EP Phone Home]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Sure, the same way some might describe someone as toxic because of their views or expression of fandom seems to be. If someone wants to question how I engage in fandom or disagree with my takes on hockey itself that's fair game. I've repeatedly had folks imply I'm toxic because of my views over the last week or so, doesn't mean I don't think they're a Canucks fan. 

 

Difference is I'm not attacking their fandom and saying they're not a fan because they don't fan just like me. I've repeatedly said there's room for all sorts of views, takes, ect. Doesn't mean I have to agree with any of them though, but I don't begrudge anyone their expression.

It’s a friggin hockey forum for Pete’s sake. I hear you nuts. I spend the hard earned dough to afford season tickets the last 5 seasons , buy the merch, watch as many games I can. Spending thousands a year on this team bleeding blue and green. But as soon as I say something like “I don’t think we have the horses to win it all and we need to be mindful of the future of the team rather then the here and now of trying to squeak in” I’m a toxic fan. I don’t tell fans how they should think or say as a fan, you do you.
 

 

It’s a hockey discussion board, there should be room for healthy discussion for the good and bad. We are all Canucks fans afterall, we won’t agree with everything that this franchise does, but we have the best intentions of them getting over that finish line. There’s nothing wrong with discussing how we will get there.

 

I appreciate your posts Coconuts and transparency on how you feel about the team. 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

5 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

 

The "See, I told you so" type of comments typically come from people who have been given plenty of personal attacks for simply disagreeing with a move the team made.

 

 

As one of the most emotional people on this forum I feel this. I've been hated on alot. when one person throws shade, I usually can't handle it. But when it happens again and again and maybe even teamed up on I likely will crack.

 

however the "See, I told you" so comment never helps and is something that everyone should work on including myself. Wanting to get redemption will not work with this method.

 

emotions are difficult to master, especially for some more than others. That said I'm not accusing you, just to be clear, just that I understand.

 

I have thrown alot of shade in this forum, most recently at @AV.. I apologize for this. I usually make this type of shade when i feel I cannot win the argument, feel i'm right and get angry I can't win. This is not cool from me.

 

I wish you no hate, have a great day.

 

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

well, we did hold on to our 1st round pick so that bucked a trend 

 

With so many thing to try to fix, the cap, the defence, the inefficient salary players, this was always going to be at least a two year fix. 

Oh def, and I always knew it would be, it's just discouraging that we didn't do anything to address our defense at all. We went into the season knowing Poolman might not be a sure thing, knowing it was a weakness. Management said they tried, they looked, but like we were discussing yesterday they flubbed it. I believe they went too hard on forwards way too quickly. 

 

I understand Mikheyev will help our two way game, and so does Lazar, but I'd have rather had actual upgrades on D over either of them. The lack of addressing our biggest weakness directly was disappointing and I'd argue that if we had maybe wouldn't have given up so many comeback wins off the hop. 

 

We did keep our 1st though, I do give them credit for that. I was worried we'd move it for the third year in a row. 

[-DLC-]

29 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

This simply isn't true for the group of people it's being directed at.

 

CDC used to have actual trolls, but those have all been banned.

 

I can't speak for everyone but some such as myself frequent other forums of CDC because that's where I find more honest conversation.

 

Myself and others have given up on this season, but to say "they really are no longer fans" is wrong. I want the Canucks to win the cup as much as you or anyone else here does.

 

However, I don't feel that the moves we've been making over the past several season are taking us in a direction to achieve that. So I call out a bad move when I think I see one. The "See, I told you so" type of comments typically come from people who have been given plenty of personal attacks for simply disagreeing with a move the team made.

 

If I think the best way to achieve a championship is to finish low this season, and get a quality prospect that will help us for numerous years going forward, I fail to see how that doesn't make me a fan.

I was going to respond, but can't even. One thing I can say is I don't feel that you can vouch for each and every member we have or know what their intentions are.

 

As I said, I'm kind of tired of the blahblahblah (so won't contribute any more to it).

 

 

[rychicken]

4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Self explanatory have you given up on this season? Yay or nay? Maybe? Too early too tell? Ask me again in another 10 games?

 

Define "given up"?

I felt before the season started that the team would not make the playoffs. I still feel that way. I stated before the season that IMO, the team has a weak D group, and their forwards do not play an aggressive enough D style to compensate for that. I don't think they have quite enough offensive talent to play "run and gun" and try to win 5-4 every night. I haven't seen enough to convince me otherwise (yet?)

I think the season can still be a "net positive" even if they don't make the playoffs. Continued development of the young players, EP continuing to shine despite more attention from opponents, Martin continuing to play well - that they don't "get a book on him" etc - so I guess officially put my vote in for "too early to tell"

[thrago]

I said yes, but maybe I misunderstood the question, do I think we will miss the playoffs yes, will I still watch as many games as I can and hope they make it? also a yes. 

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, -DLC- said:

You can't speak for "people", you can only speak for yourself.

 

And after a decade of "what" exactly?

 

I mean, it's a whole different team, management, coach. So maybe time and patience are required ... not sure why people go back a decade when not a single person on this roster was even here a decade ago. 

 

I'm tired of people pinning a history on these players that isn't theirs. The trauma some feel over this organization's history carries over but it isn't really fair to this line up.

Ya?

So is my ability to be a fan of this team in question because myself, like many others according to polls taken on this very forum suggest we are ready for a rebuild, change in direction or are trending towards apathy?

 

This line up is a line up that is and has spent to the cap and can not get it done.  This management team appears set by their own comments to continue the same program the previous management team was committed to.

 

We are allowed to be a bit frustrated by this or feel a general state of apathy knowing what the most logical outcome of this season will result in.

[lmm]

where is the have you given up on this franchise option?

[lmm]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Far from it, my generation grew up on the internet and I've been engaging on forums since the late 90's. 

 

Some folks are more provocative, sure, but I don't necessarily think that means they aren't fans. Those who pop up with new accounts specifically to troll seem to have been dealt with pretty quickly over the years. Anyone who's been around a lengthy amount of time and who sticks within the rules is okay in my book. I can't speak to your experience as a mod though. 

 

I dunno, "support" is a loaded word. So is "tear it down". Lot of different people with a lot of different tendencies, personalities, and inclinations around here. I think there's a place for criticism, and I certainly lean more that way after the last few seasons. Just because someone leans more my direction doesn't mean they're not invested though, or that they aren't a fan, or that they don't actively watch games or consume hockey media. And even then, people don't usually just behave one way for the most part. I'm critical of some things but I'm also complimentary of others, I've been quite vocal in my arguing that Horvat isn't a luxury for this team since the summer for example. I've been complimentary of Pettersson all season. It's not a cut and dry thing. 

 

I also believe one can simultaneously be a fan and stir the pot. It's gotten more hostile around here as of late and I've definitely seen it from multiple sides. Don't know if there's really a fix for that, what seems to be at the core of things is a disagreement on the state of the team and the directions individuals would have it go. It's too early to say which direction this team is headed but I think some of that discourse will die down one way or another as things become more clear, although how long that takes or what that looks like is anyone's guess. 

 

I don't think that losing faith in the direction of the team, or in management or ownership, means someone has given up on fandom. Lot of folks around here were here during the good times too, and yet they still come around and participate and talk hockey. Most of the last decade's worth of hockey has been frustrating for a lot of people, for a lot of reasons. Lot of lost seasons, lot of moves that haven't worked out. In my eyes we've mostly spun our wheels under Benning despite his goal always being to build us up to being a playoff team, but it just didn't work out. Some folks want radical change and believe it's necessary, some think we're closer to the ultimate goal, some are between those two poles. 

 

I dunno what makes a "good" fan but I started following during the early 2000's and got to ride the wave of could very well have been our most successful stretch as a franchise and I've been here during the decline and as we've done what I consider to be spinning our wheels. It was more fun when we were an elite team, or consistently making the playoffs. Losing takes a toll, not everyone has your optimism or your approach to trying to stay so positive. Some folks have handled the decline and long stretch of mostly losing differently. 

 

In the end I think everyone who posts regularly would love to see the team get back to being a consistent playoff team, or would love to see us go deep. But there's a lot of disagreement about how we get there, and what approaching getting to that point looks like. 

pssst 

don't use the m -word

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Petey_BOI said:

as for lekkerimaki. the canucks picked the BPA according to the final draft rankings of the majority of the lists. 

 

@Warhippy Name a 15th overall pick that doesn't have questions in his game.

 

@luckylager definitely not a great start for him. But the league is sweden's AHL. 

 

https://hockey-graphs.com/2020/03/02/which-league-is-best/

 

The journalist here breaks down the best leagues in hockey with stats backing it up.

 

As for his poor performance so far in his D+1 year this could very well be just luck. He was scoring goals much more frequently on his Draft eligibility season.

 

 

The BPA by some lists also had Virtanen and Juolevi at the appropriate spots.  They also had Nolan Patrick (Stefan) at #1 and Makar as not even the best defenceman available in his draft.  Opinions are just that.

We had and continue to have needs that NEED to be addressed and have been ignored since 2012.  We have drafted 11 total RHD since 2003.  

 

Lekkerimaki is a prospect and project and will or will not make this team in due time, but when he does he will be one of numerous wingers fighting for a spot whereas we will still need to address the exact same holes that have existed for over a decade.

[chon derry]

57 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

That's great but you must be new to the internet if you've never experienced trolls (for every homer there's a troll).

 

You may be here as a fan but some are disguised as fans...there are other areas of the forum that they frequent and they fill time in between by getting people worked up. It's a thing.

 

So it's not so much calling out people's fandom as it is recognizing that some may NOT be here as fans first and foremost. They don't support the team but are here mostly to tear it down. Believe it or not, not everyone's who they present ot be on the internet. Some just love stirring stuff up and especially if they run in packs.

 

There are also a group of fans who have given up on the team (long ago). So they really are no longer fans....mostly just proving a point that they were right all along. "See, I told you so" stuff.

 

Most are here for the rights reasons but don't kid yourself...not everyone.

 

You seem to be a "good" fan of the team, even if your opinions aren't shared with all of us.

 

At least us "homers" know what we are and why we're here. There's no secret in it...I mean, it's a fan forum after all. People claim to be superior fans but I watch all teams (too)...I just don't cheer for all of them. That's where the difference lies. I'm kind of tired of being treated like I know nothing about this game because I am loyal to one team. I just accept them with their flaws as I know it's a moving target and sometimes they can work their way through slumps...last year showed us that. 

 

I'm not sure any of us are experts that would have this thing nailed down if only they would get us behind the bench. It looks easier on paper but doesn't always play out that way. 

 

We're not as bad as some here would have us believe. They disappear when we start winning though.

 

But truth be told, I get so tired of this blahblahblah back and forth. 

 

 

Good points  it’s hard to convey ones personal experience, playing or watching,  the more you do either the more exp. you get. I think of brilac and cramarosa as good examples these 2 fans are huge fans  not to hard to tell .  But far be it for me to belittle or berate them for knowing less about the game. Than myself. And I do think of myself as being a fan with historical accuracy  but you know that and others don’t. I could post things that would come off as me bragging  and it’s why I don’t do it. would I label anyone “fan gatekeeper “ not knowing if somebody else even knew what it meant. NO.  I had to google it. Read above what it meant. And still don’t quite get it. But it’s another good example of how things change. Hockey’s a tough sport. Hockey players are tough people. Today’s game is watered down in comparison to the way it was  it also seems the newer fan base is a little softer in its ability to adapt to a harsher harder core older fan without getting offended. the one thing that us older folks have over the young folks is we witnessed it. Whereas the concept of only hearing about it doesn’t register.  life’s tough hockey’s tougher.  It’s something people have to deal with. Throwing a term out there that came in with gaming seems like us older folk are forced to have to adapt to it? Hard No.  rather than them adapting or at the very least trying to understand and respect that’s the way it is and always has been. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by chon derry

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, lmm said:

pssst 

don't use the m -word

 

[inane]

Go canucks go play the good hockey yay sports! 

[Bad_BOI_pete]

35 minutes ago, JM_ said:

they may yet do that. I suspect thats exactly what will happen with Brock, e.g. 

I think so too.

 

Call me crazy (I am) But what if Management didn't see any of the UFA options as long term solutions. Instead, rather stocking up on forwards and making a trade at somepoint in  the future. 

 

This strategy makes sense to me, Throwing dollars at someone who would only be a stop gap, would just complicate things.

 

 

[Warhippy]

One thing I would like to address or point out.

 

While gatekeeping what it means to be or not be a fan, some neglect to understand that the people they are addressing have been here for over 10 years in some cases.  Have cheered the good and bad, have defended numerous bad moves and questioned some good ones.  Have argued back and forth with thousands of different posters but have still shown up almost every single day to express their support of or criticism of the team they love.

 

I do not know a single family that gets along every minute of every day.  but I do know hundreds that will bicker constantly and still show up to every holiday, event or get together to see those people they argue with.  I know hundreds of people that will scream in each others faces over disagreements yet still jump in front of a bullet for that same person because they are family.

 

This forum is a, or is supposed to be a melting pot of differing opinions with the sole reason for existence being that we are all fans of our team and all desire only the best for it no matter the opinion we hold.

 

Let's not forget that at days end, when the game starts tonight; we are all going to be cheering for the win, we are all going to be cheering for our team and we are all going to be here tomorrow discussing the good and bad about it.  Just like we have done for years, for thousands of posts and proposals.

 

This our team and this is our home.  

Edited November 1, 2022 by Warhippy

[Ghostsof1915]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

One thing I would like to address or point out.

 

While gatekeeping what it means to be or not be a fan, some neglect to understand that the people they are addressing have been here for over 10 years in some cases.  Have cheered the good and bad, have defended numerous bad moves and questioned some good ones.  Have argued back and forth with thousands of different posters but have still shown up almost every single day to express their support of or criticism of the team they love.

 

I do not know a single family that gets along every minute of every day.  but I do know hundreds that will bicker constantly and still show up to every holiday, event or get together to see those people they argue with.  I know hundreds of people that will scream in each others faces over disagreements yet still jump in front of a bullet for that same person because they are family.

 

This forum is a, or is supposed to be a melting pot of differing opinions with the sole reason for existence being that we are all fans of our team and all desire only the best for it no matter the opinion we hold.

 

Let's not forget that at days end, when the game starts tonight; we are all going to be cheering for the win, we are all going to be cheering for our team and we are all going to be here tomorrow discussing the good and bad about it.

Well the fans that want us to draft Bedard won't be too upset with a loss..

[Master Mind]

15 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

I was going to respond, but can't even. One thing I can say is I don't feel that you can vouch for each and every member we have or know what their intentions are.

 

As I said, I'm kind of tired of the blahblahblah (so won't contribute any more to it).

 

 

This is a disappointing response.

 

If you're going to call people like myself "not fans", I'd hope you would continue the dialogue when your points are challenged.

 

I also specifically said "I can't speak for everyone". I can speak for myself, and to a degree for those who I've had plenty of conversations with and therefore know their intentions.

 

It's weird how you pointed this one aspect out, while simultaneously doing this exact thing by assuming a pack of people here aren't fans and want to stir the pot.

 

A shame this part of my post was ignored, and the rest wasn't even read/responded to.