[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[teepain]

Ya lets put myers as captain so we can trade him faster 

[granpappy]

21 hours ago, stawns said:

that's what, 25% chance, at best?

well, at the start of the season i would have believed we would have had no chance so ... i'll take the 25% at best chance. this season has been really weird though and divine intervention being what it is, our incredibly poor play, record multi-goal comebacks surrendered, our goalers poor play, injuries suffered, bottom feeders wins despite their best efforts to lose, gino passing, managements contribution to the internal conflict, we'll see. its been a unique year. on the other hand, if we managed to finish dead last we are guaranteed a top 4

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, teepain said:

Ya lets put myers as captain so we can trade him faster 

I highly doubt anyone will trade for Myers.....which is why I suggested him for the "A" instead of Schenn.....

[theo5789]

14 minutes ago, grumpyone said:

Elliot Friedman said today that the top 12 protected pick this year could be waived but probably only will be if the pick isn't Bedard. That means we could end up with a top 10 pick AND our own pick. 

Doesn't make too much sense, why didn't they just make it lottery protected then and keep it simple?

[Coconuts]

38 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

What's so bad about it? That we didn't get a rhd? Or that Raty isn't good enough? Or Anthony is not good enough? 

 

The first is probably as high a pick they can get

It's not bad, it's not great, it's just.. good 

 

Could have done worse, could have done better

 

If the pick goes to next season and the Isles crater and that results in a top ten pick that changes things 

 

I tend to agree with this breakdown

 

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2446408/trade-grades-making-sense-of-the-islanders-canucks-blockbuster

 

[grumpyone]

Just now, theo5789 said:

Doesn't make too much sense, why didn't they just make it lottery protected then and keep it simple?

they don't really like the uncertainty of an unprotected pick next year. 

[RWJC]

16 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I cannot agree with any of this, objectively speaking. Using your logic, it would make no sense that Miller would be paid 8 million, considering your "anomaly" argument.

 

Here's Horvat's stats.

 

 

vs Miller's

 

 

The stats are not at all that different. Miller has played over 60 more games, and has 78 more points. Moreover, aside from the offense part which Miller is better at, he is not superior to Horvat in other ways, such as faceoffs.

 

So are you saying that Miller's contract is overpaid then? If you don't, you'll be contradicting yourself.

I’ve stated numerous times in the past in other threads that the JTM deal is an overpayment. Especially for us in that we have so much money tied up in players that don’t really have a long term future with this club to propel it forward/upward. 
 

unfortunately same goes with Bo. The term and $ he likely wants are prohibitive of us truly balancing dollars around and essentially if he was extended here, we’d have basically said this club is a playoff club to build up further, when that’s the farthest thing from reality.

 

i’ve argued for both sides but inherently was actually pro-trading both Bo and JTM and using the cap savings and space to move out any burden contracts and/or take in short term cap hits and prospects/picks for the next two seasons. 
 

and yeah, Bo is having an anomaly of a season. That’s pretty obvious. What’s also obvious to me is that it’s because of who he’s been playing with that has helped pad his stats and perhaps ignited him in a contract year. 

Bo and JTM are two different players that offer different facets and contributions. I don’t lump them in the same box for comparative purposes, save for the salary structure design for this club. 
 

I’m a bit unclear…what is it you are actually debating? That we should have prioritized Bo over JTM?

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by RWJC

[RWJC]

19 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I know it's not ideal, but I kind of lean towards a rotating captaincy, or 3 "A's"....

 

OEL Miller and maybe Myers as placeholders until Petey is ready....

Schenn gets an A (or an A+) if he isn’t dealt. Well deserved. 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by RWJC

[hammertime]

11 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I highly doubt anyone will trade for Myers.....which is why I suggested him for the "A" instead of Schenn.....

I agree give Schenn the C

[Pure961089]

Horvat had tough shoes to fill after Hank retired.  And being compared to Linden all the time didn’t help.  But he did the best he could with what Jim gave him.  Which wasn’t much.    I look at our AHL farm team now for the first time with optimism now that player development is being taken seriously.  I love the progress of our farm team.  

[hammertime]

Elias Petterson for Captain? "He's just not ready" 

 

This message has been brought to you by the Luke Schenn for captaincy party of Canuck Nation

[chon derry]

Go With 3 A s. For the balance , Myers , OEL , Miller possibly more are all potential tradable players use the balance remaining to further evaluate players going players staying and whose worthy of the “C” 

[RWJC]

13 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

What do you think about Miller?  Would we have to add a sweetener to dump him, or would we expect to receive something in a trade, or?

I think you can still get something good by trade. One major chip just got taken off the market (maybe temporarily). The next couple weeks will determine how the arms race will unfold, but if JTM was to be added into the mix, he might fetch a very good return, especially if Bo isn’t extended by NYI. The certainty of JTM’s

contract, although I don’t like the last 3-4 years of it, could become very attractive quite quickly to other clubs if NYI/Bo don’t agree and Bo re-enters the TDL talk. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Elias Petterson for Captain? "He's just not ready" 

 

This message has been brought to you by the Luke Schenn for captaincy party of Canuck Nation

He can't be the Canucks captain while playing for another team..

[nuck-lifer]

1 hour ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Cool so we are the pats of the NHL. Superstar talent with a bunch of nobodies and negative assets haha. Zero chance I ever move up in a draft. The cost never makes sense in regards to a 1st rounder that high.... I'll move down though all day and double my picks. But we need to prove we actually have the ability to develop players first before I go all out with the magic beans.

 

I think we have a good setup with Abby being soo close to van... Time will tell but we are seeing good strides from klim podz and hogs 

 

 

yeah, agree 

Keep them down there with Raty, Aman and anyone else under 24 who has a hope of breaking into the NHL. Learn the right way and get used to earning their wins (hopefully)

Seems pretty toxic on the big team until we flush a couple more players out and see if Tocchet can get them to walk the walk.

The ummm retool, major surgery, rebuild, strip em down to the core  (whatever you wanna call it)is on!

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

14 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Some one posted a chart a few pages back showing Miller is better than Bo defensively.  So we kept the 80 point guy over the 60 point guy.  And both are similar defensively.  

I haven’t seen the post, but if we’re talking pure stats, they’re not wrong.

 

Horvat (career; 9 seasons)

 

EVD (even strength defence): -11 GAR

SHD (shorthanded defence): -10.8 GAR

Def (total defence): -21.8 GAR

xEVD (expected EVD): -11.5 GAR

xSHD (expected SHD): -13.4 GAR

xDef (expected Def): -24.9 GAR

 

Miller (career; 11 seasons)

 

EVD: -10.5 GAR

SHD: -5.1 GAR

Def: -15.6 GAR

xEVD: -9.2 GAR

xSHD: -4.4 GAR

xDef: -13.6 GAR

 

(stats taken from Evolving Hockey)

 

So, basically, Horvat has racked up a greater total, across the board, of negative defensive impact (in terms of GAR), despite Horvat having a career that’s two seasons shorter than Miller’s.

 

And Miller at least has better expected numbers than actual, suggesting he’s possibly been somewhat unlucky. While Horvat’s xGAR (expected) stats are even worse than his actual GAR, when it comes to his defence.

 

Of course, GAR isn’t the be-all and end-all of hockey analytics, but it’s usually pretty useful in giving us a general picture.

 

One note, in Horvat’s favour, is that his stats have improved over time. His first three seasons were just ugly, in terms of defensive GAR, and the last six have been more up-and-down (but still a net negative). Miller’s negative defensive impacts are more balanced, season-to-season, although he’s been slightly worse in recent years than he was at the start of his career. So Horvat today may actually be a little better defensively (in terms of stats impacts) than Miller. For the most part, however, their defensive numbers are both rather poor overall.

 

Which, of course, isn’t to say either is a bad player. Just that their value is clearly on the offensive side of the game, and certainly not their respective defensive impacts.

[Jaimito]

We finally got a rat on the team. 

 

 

[RWJC]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Elias Petterson for Captain? "He's just not ready" 

 

This message has been brought to you by the Luke Schenn for captaincy party of Canuck Nation

Haha nice. 
EP isn’t ready yet though.

not in this shit show of a season either. It’s not fair to him.

 

figure out the roster, make the necessary changes, and when it appears we have reestablished or added to the core, then hand him the reigns.

if that occurs and the offseason goes well, I wouldn’t be surprised if EP dons the C next season. 
just please mgmt, don’t rush him under your direction.

 

[chon derry]

2 minutes ago, RWJC said:

I think you can still get something good by trade. One major chip just got taken off the market (maybe temporarily). The next couple weeks will determine how the arms race will unfold, but if JTM was to be added into the mix, he might fetch a very good return, especially if Bo isn’t extended by NYI. The certainty of JTM’s

contract, although I don’t like the last 3-4 years of it, could become very attractive quite quickly to other clubs if NYI/Bo don’t agree and Bo re-enters the TDL talk. 

I would think millers more tradable with BO off the market than having to compete with interested teams vying for a player of millers money/ term/ ability 

[canuck73_3]

35 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Where did I say that. I'm fine w it these nincompoops put themselves in this situation. I didn't expect a king's ransom. It is what it is. Hey at least we've cornered the market on wingers. 

I just don't get painting with the same brush on a message board with so many opinions.