[discussion] 3C targets for next season

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

JT Compher is the only UFA centre who might be a good fit for us as a 3rd line C.  He's having quite a break out season, so not sure if he'd be in our price range.

His numbers point more to 2C level.

[J.I.A.H.N]

I think we have 3 things to achieve this summer..........

 

#1..............Get our cap under control

#2..............a large defensive RHD

and lastly

#3..............a 3rd line center

 

In that order!

[AV's Coin]

Podkolzin

[86Viking]

Odd. : You are 100%

 

Barbashev may even be capable as a #2C, making a possiblt JT trade easier to make, problem is JT's NMC kicks in same time UFA starts.

 

Unless...Canucks trade for Barbashev's rights from Vegas at or before the draft. Not sure what he might get as a UFA but 5-6m is more than fair if the management thinks he is a #2C, that would be a great deal for the team. But if Barbashev is a #3C you don't want to a #3C more than 4m and that is even high for me but we all hope cap goes up alot in a few years then cap hits won't look as bad now as they might for some players with long term deals...no names mentioned by me!

[Kelly Green]

I always liked Ryan OReilly, not sure what he would want on his next deal but its probably more than TO can afford.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

3 hours ago, BlastPast said:

J.T. Compher would be nice but not sure if doable.

He's probably going to get 50 points this year - that is way too good for someone you're trying to put on the third line

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Neutral said:

Odd. : You are 100%

 

Barbashev may even be capable as a #2C, making a possiblt JT trade easier to make, problem is JT's NMC kicks in same time UFA starts.

 

Unless...Canucks trade for Barbashev's rights from Vegas at or before the draft. Not sure what he might get as a UFA but 5-6m is more than fair if the management thinks he is a #2C, that would be a great deal for the team. But if Barbashev is a #3C you don't want to a #3C more than 4m and that is even high for me but we all hope cap goes up alot in a few years then cap hits won't look as bad now as they might for some players with long term deals...no names mentioned by me!

How exactly would Barbashev be our 3C and even replace Miller in the lineup when he has only taken 140 faceoffs this year?

[KKnight]

5 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

Allvin confirmed we’ll be shopping for a third line C in the off-season. 

 

What UFA, RFA or trade targets does everyone like?

 

@Elias Pettersson has suggested Kuraly from CBJ.
 

Blueger could be another option, given his speed.

 

Who do you got?

Hartman & 2nd for Boeser (15% retention) 

[KKnight]

2 hours ago, J.I.A.H.N said:

I think we have 3 things to achieve this summer..........

 

#1..............Get our cap under control

#2..............a large defensive RHD

and lastly

#3..............a 3rd line center

 

In that order!

And if that all checks out target Trent Frederic to solidify the PK. Bruins are going to be in some cap trouble and I think he would be the perfect role player for us. I think a line of: 

 

Joshua - Aman - Frederic 

 

Would really piss teams off and have potential to be a very effective 4th line. 

[BigTramFan]

Top UFA options for 3C:

 

1 - Compher

2 - F Gaudreau

3 - Acciari

4 - Bjugstad

5 - Barbashev

6 - Kampf

7 - Monahan

 

Compher is my first choice and would be affordable if we can move out 2 of these guys: Myers, Boeser, OEL, Garland

Barbashev is intriguing. Not sure if he's a 3C. More of a winger these days.

[Phil_314]

3 hours ago, hammertime said:

Beagle??

3rd line... in the AHL??  Sure, I'd bring him back for Abbotsford's bottom-6.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I have a feeling Canucks will be looking for 25 year old and younger players to fit the same compete window with Petey and Hughes. 

 

I think of certain guys who are buried in depth and perhaps could break out such as Michael McLeod from NJ. 25 years old right shot center, RFA with Arbitration rights, NJ just committed lots of money to Meier and will need to reup Bratt too. 

 

I think of even guys like Ty Dellandrea from Dallas, Morgan Geekie from Seattle, or Joe Veleno from Detroit who are buried by their team's depth but are young and capable young centers.

 

I do wonder about some past Pittsburgh connections to Frederick Gaudreau who is 29 years old but is playing in Minnesota right now, slated to be a UFA this summer. I also wonder about someone like Nick Bjugstad who the previous Canucks regime really liked, and JR has a history with Bjugstad too back in Pittsburgh. I don't think this team can afford to take big swings yet. I would be more leary to sign a 3C to term and big dollars when you hope to have Raty as that guy potentially in a few years time. 

[DrJockitch]

4 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

I have a feeling Canucks will be looking for 25 year old and younger players to fit the same compete window with Petey and Hughes. 

 

I think of certain guys who are buried in depth and perhaps could break out such as Michael McLeod from NJ. 25 years old right shot center, RFA with Arbitration rights, NJ just committed lots of money to Meier and will need to reup Bratt too. 

 

I think of even guys like Ty Dellandrea from Dallas, Morgan Geekie from Seattle, or Joe Veleno from Detroit who are buried by their team's depth but are young and capable young centers.

 

I do wonder about some past Pittsburgh connections to Frederick Gaudreau who is 29 years old but is playing in Minnesota right now, slated to be a UFA this summer. I also wonder about someone like Nick Bjugstad who the previous Canucks regime really liked, and JR has a history with Bjugstad too back in Pittsburgh. I don't think this team can afford to take big swings yet. I would be more leary to sign a 3C to term and big dollars when you hope to have Raty as that guy potentially in a few years time. 

Ooh, love Geekie. 
We won’t have budget to go after any name centres. Scrap heap, reclamation pile more likely.

If they open up some cap space and don’t find a way to spend it on wingers they really still need a lot of work on the D.

Problem as always is inability to make space both as far as roster spots and cap. Myers will plug up the right for another year and I suspect OEL the left for a few more. 
‘If we had bit the bullet and taken the NYR deal last year we would be in much better shape. EP-Horvat-Chytl-Aman down the middle and a younger clone of Hronek on right D as well as the extra first rounder which would likely have been dealt for space or another D. 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Ooh, love Geekie. 
We won’t have budget to go after any name centres. Scrap heap, reclamation pile more likely.

If they open up some cap space and don’t find a way to spend it on wingers they really still need a lot of work on the D.

Problem as always is inability to make space both as far as roster spots and cap. Myers will plug up the right for another year and I suspect OEL the left for a few more. 
‘If we had bit the bullet and taken the NYR deal last year we would be in much better shape. EP-Horvat-Chytl-Aman down the middle and a younger clone of Hronek on right D as well as the extra first rounder which would likely have been dealt for space or another D. 

Have Bo at 8.5 per isn’t good. 

Petey

Miller

new right shot C

Aman

 

That’s much better than having Bo eating way too much cap and playing “his” way.

 

Completing the core and the supporting cast at the same time is what new management is doing. The core is done. A right shot, defensively sound, 3C is a supporting role player we still need. We might get that guy via trade (lateral cap move with Garland or Boeser) but more likely a free agent. Petey 11 + Miller 8 + new guy 3 + Aman 1.  23 on the cap allocated to centres in 2024/25.  Bo at 8.5 (and he’s poor defensively) was just way too much. 

[DrJockitch]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Have Bo at 8.5 per isn’t good. 

Petey

Miller

new right shot C

Aman

 

That’s much better than having Bo eating way too much cap and playing “his” way.

 

Completing the core and the supporting cast at the same time is what new management is doing. The core is done. A right shot, defensively sound, 3C is a supporting role player we still need. We might get that guy via trade (lateral cap move with Garland or Boeser) but more likely a free agent. Petey 11 + Miller 8 + new guy 3 + Aman 1.  23 on the cap allocated to centres in 2024/25.  Bo at 8.5 (and he’s poor defensively) was just way too much. 

If we had traded JTM we likely would have Bo signed last off-season for a lot less than $8.5 but that is all conjecture. 
You have shown your bias against Bo a lot and that is fine but Pettey-Miller-Fantasy-Aman is not a better plan especially if JTM comes in fat and out of sync again this year. 
Bo improved every year he was here, the criticisms are mostly ludicrous, he was the picture of leading by example for fitness as ingrained by Bieksa. 
We are again doing this where we look at a bottom feeder team and say, oh this just needs a couple of players who will automatically work out because they are Canucks like OEL and PlayerName. 
We are not 2 players short of being a contending team. This is not completing the core and building up the system this is panic moves to try to scrape into the playoffs and collecting castoffs and hoping to turn them around. It may work but takes a lot more luck than we have demonstrated and has a much lower chance of working than a purposely built team. 
This is just the same madness of the last 10 years and exactly what the Leafs did for 20 years before Shanahan.  If we keep this up we will waiste Pettey’s career the same way they did Sundin’s. 

[-DLC-]

41 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

If we had traded JTM we likely would have Bo signed last off-season for a lot less than $8.5 but that is all conjecture. 
You have shown your bias against Bo a lot and that is fine but Pettey-Miller-Fantasy-Aman is not a better plan especially if JTM comes in fat and out of sync again this year. 
Bo improved every year he was here, the criticisms are mostly ludicrous, he was the picture of leading by example for fitness as ingrained by Bieksa. 
 

LOL...if that was "fat" Miller, he scored right out of the gate so it didn't seem to matter.

 

I love Bo but you're also really showing a bias against JT and making a story about a guy "fat and out of sync". He had some moments for sure...but it's not like everyone else on the team didn't also. They were all out of sync.

 

JT brings an element that Bo lacked in....the grit and push back that is really important on this team. 

 

It's not about the personal growth (only), but also what you're willing to sacrifice for the team. I did not like Bo turning his head and skating by...even if it was for "discipline's" sake. I want a guy like JT who gets riled up by stuff and doesn't just accept it. We've seen that side of JT recently and with Schenn gone that's an important element that would be missing.

 

You are talking about "this" team without considering the additions that have been made recently. It's not the same team as the start of the year.

 

You're also trying to set up a story about JT that really is showing your bias but not all of us buy it.

 

[DrJockitch]

27 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

LOL...if that was "fat" Miller, he scored right out of the gate so it didn't seem to matter.

 

I love Bo but you're also really showing a bias against JT and making a story about a guy "fat and out of sync". He had some moments for sure...but it's not like everyone else on the team didn't also. They were all out of sync.

 

JT brings an element that Bo lacked in....the grit and push back that is really important on this team. 

 

It's not about the personal growth (only), but also what you're willing to sacrifice for the team. I did not like Bo turning his head and skating by...even if it was for "discipline's" sake. I want a guy like JT who gets riled up by stuff and doesn't just accept it. We've seen that side of JT recently and with Schenn gone that's an important element that would be missing.

 

You are talking about "this" team without considering the additions that have been made recently. It's not the same team as the start of the year.

 

You're also trying to set up a story about JT that really is showing your bias but not all of us buy it.

 

Your right. I saw JTM gassed with every shift and making ill-advised drop passes and assumed that a professional hockey player should be able to do better especially after signing massive contract. 
‘I was also more responding to Alf’s constant reference to Bo being fat when he was a leader from a fitness perspective, it was somewhat tongue in cheek.
Just because he moved on I don’t think we should be attacking Bo so much. He was a consummate pro here. He raised his game in the playoffs both in junior and the chance we were gifted here. He was a very valuable, quality player who did what few do on this team fought his way to the net.  People put expectations that he should be a defensive centre, pure goal scoring goon and if he didn’t fill all those roles at once he was a dispassionate failure. 
‘I have said again and again I like what JT brings on the wing. He is good forechecker, good offensive contributor and it limits the damage of his defensive play.  At C he has put a few good games together this year but also got pushed back to wing most of the year for a reason.  My problem here was that this team is not a player or two away and we aren’t a season or two away from contention. JTM will be on the downswing by the time we can be a solid playoff contender and the offers for him were rumoured to be pretty good and the assets would have better matched where this team really is.  So far having him here has not lead to any measurable success.  Being a better non playoff team during a rebuild/tool is not the path to contention. 
‘I think the management group has mostly done a good job with trades and additions.  I am looking forward to seeing what they do with college UFAs. 
I also think they have made a lot of mistakes but like their ability to move on from them. We have covered the bases on the numerous PR issues through this season.  
I just see them walking down the same path as Benning but doing it with better pro scouting and generally more competence. I think there in lies the ultimate mistake a constant push to scrape into the playoffs rather than taking a patient path to being a contender. 
 

Edited March 8, 2023 by DrJockitch

[-DLC-]

14 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I saw JTM gassed with every shift
 

That part is a bit overblown. He was gassed...."at times". But he still managed to be a factor and put up points/help set others up. People also don't factor in that he is playing a physical game out there and uses his body a lot. When he appeared to be "lazy", at least at times, I'm sure he was gassed.

 

I do agree about ripping on Bo though. No need for that. 

 

People seem to refer to being "a contender" without realizing it isn't just "boom, there you go" for most teams. That scraping in, getting experience, building from that is part of the path to get to BE a contender. Adjusting along the way as required. We haven't done a great job to date of providing pieces for Petey/Quinn/Demko to succeed with but I feel JT's one of them. And to write him off and put him out to pasture is a bit premature and guesswork.

 

Besides, some teams that are contenders have several top 5 or better picks...some with a couple of number one picks along the way. But tanking doesn't guarantee those top picks, it just provides better odds at them. We just don't have that kind of luck and even this year, I'm not holding my breath that we'll magically "win" top prize. I highly doubt it.

 

I also don't think we're as far away (with the new pieces in place) that some may think. With that, I say that every year so it could be me who is wrong.

 

Besides, I'm just regurgitating the same ol' and there are JT threads for that. I haven't really offered anything in relation to this discussion (target for 3c) so I'll bow out and let the people who have better insight on that part speak.

[smithers joe]

what about our own zlodeyev, supposed to be a good checking center?where is karlsson in our plans?

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

If we had traded JTM we likely would have Bo signed last off-season for a lot less than $8.5 but that is all conjecture. 
You have shown your bias against Bo a lot and that is fine but Pettey-Miller-Fantasy-Aman is not a better plan especially if JTM comes in fat and out of sync again this year. 
Bo improved every year he was here, the criticisms are mostly ludicrous, he was the picture of leading by example for fitness as ingrained by Bieksa. 
We are again doing this where we look at a bottom feeder team and say, oh this just needs a couple of players who will automatically work out because they are Canucks like OEL and PlayerName. 
We are not 2 players short of being a contending team. This is not completing the core and building up the system this is panic moves to try to scrape into the playoffs and collecting castoffs and hoping to turn them around. It may work but takes a lot more luck than we have demonstrated and has a much lower chance of working than a purposely built team. 
This is just the same madness of the last 10 years and exactly what the Leafs did for 20 years before Shanahan.  If we keep this up we will waiste Pettey’s career the same way they did Sundin’s. 

Sundins career wasn't wasted.   Only other TO team to get over 100 points and that was without loser points either - they were a legit threat just had their complex with Alfie and co which was great at the time.   Now it's a better team just getting boned with the quality of competition in their own division.   Didn't the WCE era have the same problems?   Yes they did.    Cloutier couldn't stop a beach ball and despite being a contender (weren't the favourite but were listed as one 2-3 years),  had some trouble didn't we too.     Have zero interest in the Shanny plan.   That's 100% based on lottery luck and the same stupid plan EDM had for over a decade until McDavid.     There isn't a perfect lane.  Yzerman who most thinks shit don't stink said as much lately.    As long as the plan is executed we have a chance.