hlinkas wrister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 2 minutes ago, The Lock said: If you're referring to Downunda's post as "half full", I didn't read it like that at all. What I'm saying is rookies are more likely to make mistakes than veterans. They're rookies. They're learning. I'm not saying you can't criticize; however, should they really be treated like vets as Downunda's post seems to do? It's how I read it anyway. Considering your post, you seem pretty bias anyway in your opinion of him, so I can see how you'd view it differently. He pointed out one mistake, and then balanced it out by pointing out the positives he also saw in his game, hardly a reactionary post. And I, like any fan of the team, want all of our draft picks to succeed ( I believe I mentioned that). Pointing out mistakes that players have made doesn't automatically show our "bias against them". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Actually JV was in position to make the right play. That's huge. Look at a guy like Drouin. He never even gets to that spot. JV is doing really well. He's done the hard part easy, but struggled with the easy part. And you wouldn't see this type of positioning on the back check from a peewee. You, my dear Mr. Poster, are not looking at the bigger picture in development. You are right, he did back check Alf and that is something positive. But that should have been the easy part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 1 minute ago, hlinkas wrister said: He pointed out one mistake, and then balanced it out by pointing out the positives he also saw in his game, hardly a reactionary post. And I, like any fan of the team, want all of our draft picks to succeed ( I believe I mentioned that). Pointing out mistakes that players have made doesn't automatically show our "bias against them". I think it's more to do with his posts before that post to be honest that irked me a bit. You're right that the post in question does at least have some positives. I also misread your initial reply to me thinking that you didn't think Virt should have been picked that high. I don't know what your opinion is of that, but I apologize for that. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against criticizing him. I'm more of a belief that he made this club for a reason (and not out of WD's heart). Power forwards tend to be rare in this league which is why he was picked so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 8 minutes ago, hlinkas wrister said: You are right, he did back check Alf and that is something positive. But that should have been the easy part. Well, with young players, especially offensive minded ones, it's not. Even a guy like Mackinnon has struggled with that. We see a lot of young guys get moved to wing to give them less responsibility on defence. JV is doing really well away from the puck. I do agree, he handles it like a grenade at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Just now, The Lock said: I think it's more to do with his posts before that post to be honest that irked me a bit. You're right that the post in question does at least have some positives. I also misread your initial reply to me thinking that you didn't think Virt should have been picked that high. I don't know what your opinion is of that, but I apologize for that. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against criticizing him. I'm more of a belief that he made this club for a reason (and not out of WD's heart). Power forwards tend to be rare in this league which is why he was picked so high. No worries, for the record I think the potential in Jake is off the charts but he is a little out of his depth this year. He's got the size and tools of a full grown man but he's struggling to handle the thinking side of the game, probably because he's still just a kid lol. That being said I think it would have been a waste of time keeping him with the Hitmen, he's moved beyond that level too. He reminds me a lot of Bure the way he can beat defensemen out wide and that's as rare a skill in the game nowadays as any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 9 hours ago, hlinkas wrister said: No worries, for the record I think the potential in Jake is off the charts but he is a little out of his depth this year. He's got the size and tools of a full grown man but he's struggling to handle the thinking side of the game, probably because he's still just a kid lol. That being said I think it would have been a waste of time keeping him with the Hitmen, he's moved beyond that level too. He reminds me a lot of Bure the way he can beat defensemen out wide and that's as rare a skill in the game nowadays as any. There it lot's of guys in the league that can beat d-men wide, it's not as rare as you think it is. He also is playing against 2nd and 3rd pair d-men. Bure played in an era of clutch and grab and a red line splitting the neutral zone. Bure could beat a defender from the blue line in with 3 steps, now that is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 On November 22, 2015 at 8:07:33 PM, The Lock said: I think it's more to do with his posts before that post to be honest that irked me a bit. You're right that the post in question does at least have some positives. I also misread your initial reply to me thinking that you didn't think Virt should have been picked that high. I don't know what your opinion is of that, but I apologize for that. Please don't get me wrong. I'm not against criticizing him. I'm more of a belief that he made this club for a reason (and not out of WD's heart). Power forwards tend to be rare in this league which is why he was picked so high. The whole "power forwards are a rare breed in the league" premise is false nowadays but continues to get used to JV's advantage. Most teams have decently-sized forwards who enjoy physicality and go to the net. This is nothing new in today's NHL. If you're referring to power forwards with Rick Nash or Jamie Benn-like offensive potential, well he still has to prove that he's even half as good. Until then, there's nothing "rare" about JV. On November 22, 2015 at 8:18:32 PM, hlinkas wrister said: No worries, for the record I think the potential in Jake is off the charts but he is a little out of his depth this year. He's got the size and tools of a full grown man but he's struggling to handle the thinking side of the game, probably because he's still just a kid lol. That being said I think it would have been a waste of time keeping him with the Hitmen, he's moved beyond that level too. He reminds me a lot of Bure the way he can beat defensemen out wide and that's as rare a skill in the game nowadays as any. I've agreed with most of your posts but I'm just wondering why you think that he's too good for the Hitmen. Injury or not, he only had one above average season there and it wasn't his latest one. He wasn't even a first liner. The more I learn about the Hitmen management, the more I suspect that JV's inclusion in the Canucks this year could be because of the dire conditions of his junior club. Should JV have been in London or Belleville for example, I'm not so sure he'd still be here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHoneyBadger Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 He is here to stay, he just needs more confidence in his game. He seems to be trying so hard to be defensively responsible and keep his shifts short that his offensive game has suffered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlinkas wrister Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) 7 hours ago, guntrix said: I've agreed with most of your posts but I'm just wondering why you think that he's too good for the Hitmen. Injury or not, he only had one above average season there and it wasn't his latest one. He wasn't even a first liner. The more I learn about the Hitmen management, the more I suspect that JV's inclusion in the Canucks this year could be because of the dire conditions of his junior club. Should JV have been in London or Belleville for example, I'm not so sure he'd still be here. I don't think junior is the best place for Jake because he needs to learn the finer points of the game, put him back down against 17 and 18 year olds and it's too easy for him to dominate and slip into the same old habits. Ideally he would get to spend more time with Green in Utica but as that's a no-go then I'd rather he stayed with the Canucks. I can't speak for the level of coaching in Calgary but I don't see Jake showing the signs of being very well coached while he was there. Edited November 24, 2015 by hlinkas wrister grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 6 hours ago, AlphaHoneyBadger said: He is here to stay, he just needs more confidence in his game. He seems to be trying so hard to be defensively responsible and keep his shifts short that his offensive game has suffered. His 'offensive game' (and associated expectations) shouldn't even barely be on the radar this season. Any points he gets should entirely be considered gravy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) 8 hours ago, guntrix said: The whole "power forwards are a rare breed in the league" premise is false nowadays but continues to get used to JV's advantage. Most teams have decently-sized forwards who enjoy physicality and go to the net. This is nothing new in today's NHL. If you're referring to power forwards with Rick Nash or Jamie Benn-like offensive potential, well he still has to prove that he's even half as good. Until then, there's nothing "rare" about JV. It's not false actually. Not every big body out there brings a physical game. Just look at Kessel for example. Most of those forwards you're talking about don't hit like Virtanen. They don't bring as physical of a game. Just look at the hits of Nash and Benn compared with Virtanen so far this season: Nash has 33, Benn has 41.... Virtanen has 52. What's even more interesting is Brown (who's known to be a hitting machine on the ice) also has 52 hits. Virtanen's bringing a Brown-like hitting game on the ice as a rookie. This is without even mentioning that he has the most hits on the team. Add to that how he hit in the WHL. He would plow through 6 foot 5 defenders. Instead of the defender body checking him to get him off the puck, he'd body check them while staying on the puck! Does that really sound like a guy who can still benefit from that league or a guy who's a man playing against boys? Think about it. EDIT: Actually, you look at Dustin Brown's stats early on in his career: 5 points in 31 games in his first season. Perhaps we have a bigger Brown with more scoring potential.... Edited November 24, 2015 by The Lock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 11 hours ago, guntrix said: The whole "power forwards are a rare breed in the league" premise is false nowadays but continues to get used to JV's advantage. Most teams have decently-sized forwards who enjoy physicality and go to the net. This is nothing new in today's NHL. If you're referring to power forwards with Rick Nash or Jamie Benn-like offensive potential, well he still has to prove that he's even half as good. Until then, there's nothing "rare" about JV. I've agreed with most of your posts but I'm just wondering why you think that he's too good for the Hitmen. Injury or not, he only had one above average season there and it wasn't his latest one. He wasn't even a first liner. The more I learn about the Hitmen management, the more I suspect that JV's inclusion in the Canucks this year could be because of the dire conditions of his junior club. Should JV have been in London or Belleville for example, I'm not so sure he'd still be here. Totally agree with your Hitman management comment. How about Kelowna? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 If the problems with Jakes game is his smarts, then I really do think keeping him up is the right decision. What better place to learn how to think on an NHL level than with NHL players. He has the full skillset and toolset. He just needs experience and exposure on the NHL level, or at the very minimum Pro North American level so he can learn his responsibilities. Having him in the CHL would do little to nothing for him. Give Jake some time. It took Horvat about half a season before he started to find his groove offensively speaking. He's coming. Give him time. You can't teach athleticism and the aspects of Jakes game that are top notch. You can however teach positioning, and what to do at what time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRussianRocket. Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 @benkuzma: #Canucks are attending Cowboys-Panthers game Thursday in Big D. Asked what he's most excited about, Virtanan said: "The cheerleaders." atta boi Jake, what a lad! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 On 24/11/2015 09:21:04, J.R. said: His 'offensive game' (and associated expectations) shouldn't even barely be on the radar this season. Any points he gets should entirely be considered gravy. Yup, so long as he's playing responsibly, doing well on the forecheck and using his size when he can, the rest will come on it's own accord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice orca Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 6 minutes ago, TheRussianRocket. said: @benkuzma: #Canucks are attending Cowboys-Panthers game Thursday in Big D. Asked what he's most excited about, Virtanan said: "The cheerleaders." atta boi Jake, what a lad! He is still young and sillicone looks real real good to him...wish i was young again. Go Jake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nergish Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 2 hours ago, TheLiveWire said: If the problems with Jakes game is his smarts, then I really do think keeping him up is the right decision. What better place to learn how to think on an NHL level than with NHL players. He has the full skillset and toolset. He just needs experience and exposure on the NHL level, or at the very minimum Pro North American level so he can learn his responsibilities. Having him in the CHL would do little to nothing for him. Give Jake some time. It took Horvat about half a season before he started to find his groove offensively speaking. He's coming. Give him time. You can't teach athleticism and the aspects of Jakes game that are top notch. You can however teach positioning, and what to do at what time We've essentially initiated some sort of process by keeping Jake with the team. Results won't really come this year, and maybe not even next. But this is a player with limitless potential if he can find a way to combine his physical prowess / ability to hold opposing players off of him (Bertuzzi's trademark) with a deeper understanding of the game in terms of strategy, preparation, awareness, etc. Believe me, he's no McDavid. The kid is a meat and potatoes hockey player, not a Sedin. But if there were anywhere for a player like that to learn about hockey sense and the mental aspect of the sport, would it not be alongside Henrik and Daniel in practice? Prust did a good job showing Jake how to have fun on the ice, answering the bell, getting physical (the codes of the game, I guess), but now we need to see a guy like Vrbata showing him how to pick corners, the Twins teaching him the cycle, and Bo leading by example as a responsible, dependable player that can chip in offensively. Long story short: the better our team plays, the more Jake is going to gain this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I want to see fire from this kid tonight. You dont like sitting in the press box? Good. Show me how much you hate it. I dont expect these kids to be consistent. I do however expect flashes once in a while. Hopefully tonight is virtanens night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyLow_ Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 He gives the puck away every time he touches, not sure how that is playing responsible. Hutton makes mistakes, McCann make mistakes, but there has been positive progress with them. Jake has made absolutely zero progress since the start of camp. He was given a spot despite being outperformed. He is not ready, and there is nothing wrong with that except that he's been chained to Bo and is dragging him to the bottom of the ocean. Send him to the WJC's, then back to Junior where he will actually touch a puck and be able to take what he's learned and try to apply it. We don't need him now, Gaunce can easily contribute more, it's best for everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 (edited) ^ I can't put my finger on it, but something tells me you're exaggerating... 1 hour ago, ice orca said: He is still young and sillicone looks real real good to him...wish i was young again. Go Jake. Cheerleaders aren't usually overly endowed, they kind of get in the way of all the acrobatic moves. Edited November 25, 2015 by elvis15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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