Popular Post DownUndaCanuck Posted October 27, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvats probably going to play all 7 games in Utica, then come up to the Canucks while Matthias gets the scratch and will have to earn each of his 9 games from there on. If he lasts all 9 and is better than Matthias/Richardson, plus he scores some points (I'd like at least 2 or 3 in his 9 games) and is a plus player, he should stay. However, if he produces no offence the way Matthias is right now and is a horrible negative player, he should go back to junior. Matthias' development was rushed and look how he turned out, we don't want another 4th line plug out of Horvat. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvats probably going to play all 7 games in Utica, then come up to the Canucks while Matthias gets the scratch and will have to earn each of his 9 games from there on. If he lasts all 9 and is better than Matthias/Richardson, plus he scores some points (I'd like at least 2 or 3 in his 9 games) and is a plus player, he should stay. However, if he produces no offence the way Matthias is right now and is a horrible negative player, he should go back to junior. Matthias' development was rushed and look how he turned out, we don't want another 4th line plug out of Horvat.PLUS ONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Does he Know? Hope Bo gets some points down in Utica, he needs the confidence before he returns to the nucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 That's the Manny Malhotra formula. I'd rather see him have a big offensive year in the OHL than waste the year doing what we're doing with him at this point. And I'm a big Bo booster; it's just that I personally don't like handing roster spots to self-entitled teenagers on the basis of draft position no matter who we're talking about. It's a men's league. I wouldn't call Bo self-entitled. Not from what I have seen and heard so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvats probably going to play all 7 games in Utica, then come up to the Canucks while Matthias gets the scratch and will have to earn each of his 9 games from there on. If he lasts all 9 and is better than Matthias/Richardson, plus he scores some points (I'd like at least 2 or 3 in his 9 games) and is a plus player, he should stay. However, if he produces no offence the way Matthias is right now and is a horrible negative player, he should go back to junior. Matthias' development was rushed and look how he turned out, we don't want another 4th line plug out of Horvat. agreed and fair enough. He has to earn it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvats probably going to play all 7 games in Utica, then come up to the Canucks while Matthias gets the scratch and will have to earn each of his 9 games from there on. If he lasts all 9 and is better than Matthias/Richardson, plus he scores some points (I'd like at least 2 or 3 in his 9 games) and is a plus player, he should stay. However, if he produces no offence the way Matthias is right now and is a horrible negative player, he should go back to junior. Matthias' development was rushed and look how he turned out, we don't want another 4th line plug out of Horvat. I think people overestimate Horvat's offensive ability. He's known for his defence and face off ability. Matthias's NHL production is where I'd put Horvat at. Many of you want a Patrice Bergeron out of Horvat (who doesn't), it's just not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 I think people overestimate Horvat's offensive ability. He's known for his defence and face off ability. Matthias's NHL production is where I'd put Horvat at. Many of you want a Patrice Bergeron out of Horvat (who doesn't), it's just not gonna happen. Based on what, exactly? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Never rush prospects. I think the 9 games with the Nucks and then the world juniors would be good for him, but sending him back to junior for half a season wont hurt him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knucklehd Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Never rush prospects. I think the 9 games with the Nucks and then the world juniors would be good for him, but sending him back to junior for half a season wont hurt him. I was against sending him back to juniors out of training camp, but after he gets some ahl exposure 9 nhl games, then sent back for WJC, all the while gaining daily experience just being/working with the pros. I don't think it would be nearly as bad if he went to juniors after WJC. He at least gets a very big taste of the pros to fuel him for the last half of junior and the playoffs. Then most likely, join Utica after London's season is over. Sounds like a real solid development path if he doesn't earn a spot for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Based on what, exactly? Their OHL point production is fairly similar. Better yet, what has Horvat done to convince people that he'll be an NHL goal scorer? I'd seriously like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plum Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvat might be in the line-up against the California road trip. Horvat is going to get a real taste of big, physical centres and physical hockey in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Their OHL point production is fairly similar. Better yet, what has Horvat done to convince people that he'll be an NHL goal scorer? I'd seriously like to know. Well, here are their respective junior stats ("so far" for Horvat). I've bolded their draft years. Matthias 16 yrs - 1G , 1A (2 PTS) in 37 GP 0.05 PPG 17 yrs - 13G, 21A (34 PTS) in 67 GP 0.51 PPG 18 yrs - 38G, 35A (73 PTS) in 64 GP 1.14 PPG 19 yrs - 32G, 47A (79 PTS) in 53 GP 1.49 PPG Horvat 16 yrs - 11G , 19A (30 PTS) in 64 GP 0.47 PPG 17 yrs - 33G, 28A (61 PTS) in 67 GP 0.91 PPG 18 yrs - 30G, 44A (74 PTS) in 54 GP 1.37 PPG Bergeron 17 yrs - 23G, 50A (73 PTS) in 70 GP 1.04 PPG As far as draft year points are concerned, Horvat had production closer to Bergeron. Matthias' PPG got "closer" in his draft +1 year but was still quite a bit lower, and he played with a guy who put up 129 points. Horvat spent his +1 year playing with the Rupert twins (both put up fewer points than Horvat). We'll have to see how things turn out with Horvat this year, but I think that saying he had a Matthias-like junior career right now is pretty inaccurate given the circumstances. That being said, Bergeron made the Bruins team right away so we'll never know how he would have done with another year of junior. Edited October 27, 2014 by Canucks1219 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borvat Horseman Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 These are my two ideal scenarios for Bo which I believe would be the best for his development: 1) Bo plays the full 6 games of his conditioning stint in Utica. When he arrives back in Vancouver they give him his 9 games and he plays his way into a role on the team (whatever that role may be). Come time for the World Juniors Vancouver loans him to Canada where he plays in a much larger role before returning to Vancouver for the rest of the year. 2) Bo plays his 6 games with Utica and 9 with Vancouver before being assigned back to London. This gives him 15 games of professional experience and allows him to build on the lessons he learned in a professional setting and apply them in a larger role. He then goes on to do the same at the World Juniors. Then hopefully either the Knights miss the playoffs (not likely) or they lose in the first round and Bo can be recalled for hopefully a lengthy playoff run with Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Their OHL point production is fairly similar. Better yet, what has Horvat done to convince people that he'll be an NHL goal scorer? I'd seriously like to know. Being drafted #9 + We traded Schneider for him. Canucks board logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valentine Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Their OHL point production is fairly similar. Better yet, what has Horvat done to convince people that he'll be an NHL goal scorer? I'd seriously like to know. Burden of proof is on you my friend. What exactly has Horvat done to prove to you that he'll only be capable of Matthias' level of point production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Their OHL point production is fairly similar. Better yet, what has Horvat done to convince people that he'll be an NHL goal scorer? I'd seriously like to know. Horvat's OHL point production is fairly similar to Bergeron's Q point production (not saying Bo will be as good as Bergeron). If all you're basing your argument on is similar point production, it is not the best argument to make. You could look back any number of years and find players who had similar or even higher point production but were busts as well as players with lower point production who had NHL success. Jeff Carter also had similar production as Bo in the OHL in his second season, and Horvat will definitely not have the same offensive success as Carter. Edited October 27, 2014 by Down by the River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnipeshow91 Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Scheifefe anyone . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Horvat's OHL point production is fairly similar to Bergeron's Q point production (not saying Bo will be as good as Bergeron, that's more your logic). If all you're basing your argument on is similar point production, it is a pretty terrible argument. You could look back any number of years and find players who had similar or even higher point production but were busts as well as players with lower point production who had NHL success. Jeff Carter also had similar production as Bo in the OHL in his second season, and Horvat will definitely not have the same offensive success as Carter. Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that point production is a more obscure point to argue from since accumulated totals are all over the place. Rather, it seems that people take Bo's and Bergeron's similar point totals in one year to heart and lay down the comparisons often (don't act like you've never seen it around these boards). Bo, to me, is a player who will be used for his defence throughout his career. He's more of a defensive forward than a two-way forward, as will be seen in his conditioning stint in the AHL and his minor tryout (or more?) in the NHL. Putting up points is almost a guarantee when you're on the top two lines in a team like the knights in the OHL. The NHL and even the AHL are two different monsters. I feel like people are a bit resistive to what Bo really is due to the Schneider trade. Getting a third or fourth line defensive forward out of that (IMO) will garner bust accusations so I hope that when the time comes, people will just let the kid play and prove his worth in the role he'll be given. Every team needs a defensive, grinding forward that'll put in work in their own zone and Bo will be valuable to us in that way. In the end, both sides are speculating I guess, so we'll get a better view of what Bo's poised for in the next couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Matthias/Vey have both have a face off percentage hovering around +/- 40%. They are the two worst face off guys on the team of all the players regularly taking draws on a team that's not overly good at winning them. We have one guy (Hank) over 50%. One guy. If Bo can come in and out perform either of them on the dot (and Matthias' dreadful -6 play so far), he'll get that 4C spot IMO. If not, well, it's back to London. My only real concern is how sore that arm/shoulder is and how it might affect his ability to win draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down by the River Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 (edited) Yeah, I'm beginning to realize that point production is a more obscure point to argue from since accumulated totals are all over the place. Rather, it seems that people take Bo's and Bergeron's similar point totals in one year to heart and lay down the comparisons often (don't act like you've never seen it around these boards). Bo, to me, is a player who will be used for his defence throughout his career. He's more of a defensive forward than a two-way forward, as will be seen in his conditioning stint in the AHL and his minor tryout (or more?) in the NHL. Putting up points is almost a guarantee when you're on the top two lines in a team like the knights in the OHL. The NHL and even the AHL are two different monsters. I feel like people are a bit resistive to what Bo really is due to the Schneider trade. Getting a third or fourth line defensive forward out of that (IMO) will garner bust accusations so I hope that when the time comes, people will just let the kid play and prove his worth in the role he'll be given. Every team needs a defensive, grinding forward that'll put in work in their own zone and Bo will be valuable to us in that way. In the end, both sides are speculating I guess, so we'll get a better view of what Bo's poised for in the next couple of years. Definitely. I had quite a few back and forths over the summer with Gooseberries about where Bo should play. The more I think about it, the more I think he may be right. I don't remember the last time I heard someone say that keeping a guy back in junior one more year really hurt his development. Moving a guy into the lineup early, that's been used many times as a reason why a guy didn't develop as expected. Edited October 27, 2014 by Down by the River Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now