Toronto Vs Vancouver aka New vs old who is winning?

[Arrow 1983]

Both these teams are fascinating in their management styles.

 

Toronto

1) Toronto Has a much younger GM. Has a vast analytical and cap staff department, (some might call it the best with both Laurence Gilman we all know who he is and Brandon Pridham, Literally the former NHL contact person for NHL General Managers, Assistant General Managers and NHL Executives on issues involving the CBA, salary cap and NHL Central Scouting department).

2) Toronto has also gone to the theory you need to only pay your top 4 d-men and top 9 forwards and their starting goalie any type of decent salaries and everyone else can make the league minimum, aka no middle class aka the rich and the poor period.

3) they have a president and GM 

 

Vancouver

 

1) JB the old guy compared to Dubas as the GM. Master scouter, Probably uses, The does he pass the eye test over every thing else. 

2) One of if not the smallest management department in the NHL. I would argue he would rather hire the best guys (Judd Brackett) over having many guys. 

3) No President old school way 1 guy holds both titles of president and GM.

4) Cap is much more Balanced no really high end salary. Low ends are ELC.  

 

GM vs GM personalities 

 

Dubas does far more interviews and far more extensive ones based on what I have seen in the last year or so. JB talks to the media as little as possible. This could be due to the difference in media coverage. Mostly I think JB is just a more quit person in general and doesn't need a hundred opinions to make a decision. Dubas seems to like to surround  himself with as many opinions as possible. There is a quote by Dubas "If you're only hiring white males, you're probably leaving a lot on the table in terms of where your organization goes and how it evolves and develops."

 

Toronto record VS Vancouver record 

 

This is not about their actually win lose record. But their directional record.

1) Both teams have drafted well ( Dubas hasn't been GM that long but I'm making the assumption that he did have a hand in Toronto's drafting record as AGM).

2) Draft wise Toronto did get more luck by winning the Draft lottery and being able to draft Auston Matthews. Vancouver had terrible Luck and fell every time.

3) Both teams have gotten steals Marner at 4th after Dylan Strome was selected before him however, both McDavid and Eichel where in the 2015 draft which allowed Marner to fall. Pettersson picked 5th and will most likely be the best player in that draft unless Makar somehow surpasses him.

4) JB came in having to please ownership and try to keep winning while the Sedins where still here. Toronto Shanahan Says almost from day one, there will be pain lots of pain get use to it cause it is coming. OK I paraphrase but I think you get the point they where going to tear it down and start rebuilding. There was no retool it wasn't in their dictionary.

 

So the Question is posed who has done a better job at their rebuild and managing their team, Toronto Or Vancouver? It really is a Question of old school vs New school. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Arrow 1983

[Chicken.]

I picked old school Vancouver because I am more optimistic about our teams’ long term goal of remaining competitive. Having prospects punching above their weight on an ELC is a huge asset for increasing team depth. I am confident JBs will find a few gems in the draft that will provide a cheap boost once our core group is set in stone and rolling with chemistry. We are slowly beginning to see his later draft picks develop now its been a while. Toronto has paid heavily for their star players (mostly deserved) which I cannot criticize them as I would have loved Tavares for what they signed him for. Nylander is a bad deal and Marner while highly talented is prob going to get paid too much imo.

I dont follow Toronto much but it seems impossible to beat the character we have on this team they really appear to want to leave it all on the ice for each other which is a crucial mentality to have for any team sport. 

 

Getting a bit off topic now... screw the Leafs

[McBackup]

I picked Toronto. I despise the Leafs as much as any other sane person but at the end of the day, until things change they're still a playoff team and we are not.

[Arrow 1983]

And if you are starting to wonder, the answer is yes I know exactly what I did here. 

 

I pitted our hated enemy against our beloved Canucks. But it flies in the face of everything we are taught. Everyone now is saying we need analytics and capologists in the new era NHL.

 

If the Canucks where to win the Cup first guys like JB will have GM jobs for a long time to come. If Tor wins a Cup first everyone will convert.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Arrow 1983

[RWMc1]

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by RWMc1

[Johnny Torts]

[Bissurnette]

JB is my guy.

 

People underestimate what drafting and development do for the success of a team. The single most important effect of the good, actually great drafting we've seen from JB and co is sustainable, long-term success. With management's drafting and development we can have quality prospects consistently being moved up into the system and catching the eye of other GMs who suddenly always have the prospect they want much higher on their list but for x circumstances, they had to go another direction. Prospects are the currency of the NHL. Younger, faster, more skilled. This doesn't mean you win Lord Stanley by having all young, fast, more skilled players on your team. Winning teams are more diverse than that. You win in the Playoffs by having elite skilled players surrounded by plenty of big, fast, physical players who battle it out each night and achieve results. But you do win because you have what everyone wants. GMs are suddenly ready to pay a premium to outbid other GMs for the apple of their eye. In a cap world, you need that leverage. It affords you quality players on the trade market. It puts you in a great position to attract free agents. The best part: it is sustainable. In 2-3 years we will start to see it if JB is allowed a few cracks at the playoffs with the core he built. 

[the grinder]

we get enough leaf coverage   on tv    , the leafs sucked forever   , they sucked so much they got a first overall pick  , the went out and got the best so called coach , and they sucked more to get more picks   , . they then sucked in the playoffs   , they sucked in game seven and got blown out   and then they went out and got the big free agent ,  plan the parade the media said , then flamingo boy couldn't sign him till the bitter end , well they still sucked in the playoffs , once again  , present day  one of their prized player is sitting on the sidelines wanting and deserving what they just paid  for JT  ,  plus they lost most of their key supporting players and replaced them with plugs    and like always the leafs will suck  and will suck in future

 

the canucks were a good team  in the finals 8 years ago  tried to take a few runs at the playoffs didn't work  drafted some good players  never got a first overall pick  , made a few questionable free agent signings  tho lately he has made up for those mistakes ,  just like some trades some bad ones and good ones , but overall  its looking up for the canucks and the leafs will blow

[-AJ-]

I voted Toronto just to be a contrarian.

[Captain Canuck #12]

32 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I voted Toronto just to be a contrarian.

Pffffft!  Whey do you Contrarians always seem to be doing the opposite of everyone else?  We need to ship you all back to Contraria to Make Canada Good Again!!

[BrockBoester]

We HAD to have a thread talking about Toronto, eh??!?!?

 

[King Heffy]

Vancouver.  Not a fan of the Leafs' no defense strategy.

[IBatch]

Dubas caved with his star RFAs both of them, big flunk, then squeezed his good ones on bridge deals to compensate.  And now is over a table with Marner, big flunk especially since he’s supposed to be a numbers guy, and had to trade a first and Kadri (on a great cap hit) to get some money - Barrie won’t stay and is a bandaid for sure because, well they also couldn’t afford Gardiner who’s their version of Edler.  Until he does something good JB all the way, he’s made some decent moves (Zaitsev), but inherited his team - that’s Lou and his predecessors.  

[PistolPete13]

Since you brought it up, how many non- white males does TO have on their management team? Or is that just some hot air from Dubas. 

Making the Leafs cup champions and the world a better place at the same time. 

Tomorrow Dubas will be rewriting the Ten Commandments and putting an end to world hunger. 

[Nucker 67]

I was actually going to choose TOR at first, but then gave it a bit of thought. I believe TOR traded a conditional 1st (2020) for cap relief, basically gave Leivo away so they could re-sign Nylander, but then messed that up, and is now at odds with Marner's camp on his contract. TOR seems to me, to also be less gritty (on paper) than they were last year. Yes, Dubas brought in Barrie (as a 1-year rental), but it cost them that grit (Kadri). If they're really going for it this year with Barrie, they could struggle in the playoffs without the required grit/toughness.  

 

Benning overhauled (upgraded) the D, brought in good support players (Beagle, Pearson, Leivo, Roussel) and 2 top 6 forwards (Ferland and Miller). He's still got to lose two players (Eriksson and ?), and re-sign Boeser, but he will get the job done. The team is faster, bigger and will be more physical than they've been for many years. If the Canucks manage to stay relatively healthy (no major surprises), then I like their chances to make the playoffs, and do well. It sounds like a long-shot because of previous years of the bottom 5, but I think Benning really changed this team almost overnight. I can't wait to see them play.

[Alflives]

Dubas signed Princess Nylander to way too much.  Then he doubled down on Leaf’s pajama boy Tavares.  Then he gave even more to pouty face Matthews.  Now the one guy of those three who is actually deserves the dollars he is demanding, Marner, is being told to take lesser dollars even though you’re more valuable than these other three.  

Dubas, and his method, is ruining what Lou and Hunter created.  

JB has built us a great team for the now and the future, and kept our contracts affordable.  We friggin’ win!  Leafs suck now, and will have fans again throwing jerseys onto the ice and wearing paper bags soon.

Unless they sign their new enforcer:

 

[naslund.is.king]

6 hours ago, BrockBoester said:

We HAD to have a thread talking about Toronto, eh??!?!?

 

 

10 hours ago, Johnny Torts said:

  @Arrow 1983 is one of the few making an effort to make discussions this summer

Ignore him or don't read it

[Dats hockey]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Vancouver.  Not a fan of the Leafs' no defense strategy.

You know what they always say, “Goals win Championships”. Wait hmmm that doesn’t seem right

[spur1]

39 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I was actually going to choose TOR at first, but then gave it a bit of thought. I believe TOR traded a conditional 1st (2020) for cap relief, basically gave Leivo away so they could re-sign Nylander, but then messed that up, and is now at odds with Marner's camp on his contract. TOR seems to me, to also be less gritty (on paper) than they were last year. Yes, Dubas brought in Barrie (as a 1-year rental), but it cost them that grit (Kadri). If they're really going for it this year with Barrie, they could struggle in the playoffs without the required grit/toughness.  

 

Benning overhauled (upgraded) the D, brought in good support players (Beagle, Pearson, Leivo, Roussel) and 2 top 6 forwards (Ferland and Miller). He's still got to lose two players (Eriksson and ?), and re-sign Boeser, but he will get the job done. The team is faster, bigger and will be more physical than they've been for many years. If the Canucks manage to stay relatively healthy (no major surprises), then I like their chances to make the playoffs, and do well. It sounds like a long-shot because of previous years of the bottom 5, but I think Benning really changed this team almost overnight. I can't wait to see them play.

I think that Benning has rewarded the team for their hard work and effort last season despite being undermanned. 

[48MPHSlapShot]

Apples and oranges. Situations aren't comparable in the slightest.