Top 50 Canucks of All-Time - #3

[the grinder]

ill vote bure again and again . nomimate  t tanti 

[kingfreako]

Voted Bure, nominate Burrows

[Iggynucks]

Voted Naslund. The man was pure class and a top 5 player for a 3 year span. He made me love watching the Canucks again after the late 90s fiasco. Unfortunately a lack of playoff success but you could almost say that for everyone on the list.

 

Nominate Burrows. The guy bled blue and green and would do anything for the better of the team. Was finally the linemate to find chemistry with the Sedins and propel them from stars to superstars. Some of the biggest and memorable goals in Canucks’ history.

[ruilin96]

Voted Trevor Linden, nominating Alex Burrows.

[Smashian Kassian]

Voted Bure

 

Nominating Jovo

[ItalianCanuck1]

Linden. 

 

Nominating Burrows. 

[smithers joe]

i choose stan smyl

nominate lumme.

[joe-max]

Voted Linde, nominate Lumme.

[BarnBurner]

Voted Linden. 

 

Nominate Tiger Williams

[Wilbur]

Voted Linden

Nominating Burrows

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Master Mind said:

HE It's certainly debatable. I have Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek ahead of Luongo.

 

I think the talent pool of skaters has increased over the years, meaning Luongo faced overall the toughest competition of the bunch. 

 

Not easy to compare eras or situations especially for goalies. But based on what I've seen, that's where he ranks for me.

Talent level has been great since the 70's.   Funny thing is you can track it by how the best compare to the new best in any era right to to present time.   Orr was better then Potvin and Robinson all defenseman he played against.   Gretzky and Lemuiex were better then anyone right up to close to retirement.   Including guys like Yzerman, Selanne, Iginla who were better then a lot of the Getzlaf aged guys who still play today.   So it's a bit naive to think that Luongo faced better competition then guys like Parent, Esposito, Smith, Furh, Belfour, Barrasso, Vernon, McLean, Hasek, Broduer and Roy etc.   One could say the 80-90's goalies faced the best there ever was because it was true.  Much smaller league back then and the level of forward talent was better then it's ever been.  Just look at how many super stars, stars and best all-time talent there was compared to now.   It's not even close and that's with 31 teams...although it seems to be on the upswing again for sure.

 

Some of these guys posted elite sp before the butterfly existed - including Parent, Espisito, and Dryden.

 

As far as comparing Luongo to his previous peers that didn't have the luxury of padding their win colums with shoot-out wins...well Luongo and especially Lundqvist take huge hits -there is a reason 400 wins used to be viewed as a exceptional accomplishment.   Luongo would be in the low 400s if you made them ties instead - Lundqvist would around Vernon - outside looking in. 

 

THN has been making lists for decades now - which included experts views on players from long ago eras that were alive back then to make proper comparisons.  One rule they have is once a player retires they can't move ahead of others that have etc.   Luongo has been around the high 20's recently.   Never won a Vezina - few second team all-star appearances etc.   In other words he wasn't even considered the best during his own era - how does that compare to guys that were?  Not favourably.   Yes he's the best to ever play for us ....and one the best in his era too.  And has consistently played at or near elite level for a very long time.  

 

Maybe Cujo is a good comparison.   The difference is Luongo won two gold medals and one as a starter - which is why he should going to the HHOF.   Otherwise he'd have to wait just like Cujo - even though factually Cujo has more wins if you level the playing field. 

[189lb enforcers?]

Should have to post your age beside your vote for reasons obvious to anyone who saw all the cup runs, etc. 
 

Like the OP says, it’s up to the poster to decide on who is great, so I will not become an ANTIFA blocker in here by shutting down other’s opinions/comments. 
 

Linden

Bure 

Sedins

Steamer

 

That is my top 5 for players who best carried the flag for the franchise. 
 

Then there are the Luongo types, which there are several, like Ohlund. How about, arguably, our first super star, in Sundstom. 
 

Nominating Sundstom and someone should eventually do for Skriko.
 

Both skinny Europeans played in the Gladiator era and still put up points, without being called “tough” like the Sedins are. The two eras are not even remotely close to the same levels of intimidation and violence. The Sedins played a version of ringette compared to the sport those two survived. 
 

Garth Butcher will be an interesting discussion when he comes up, as will Babch, who will be among the more popular names recalled from the past, like Lumme or Lidster or the whack of 70’s warriors that served this franchise in its tough beginnings. 

[Master Mind]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Talent level has been great since the 70's.   Funny thing is you can track it by how the best compare to the new best in any era right to to present time.   Orr was better then Potvin and Robinson all defenseman he played against.   Gretzky and Lemuiex were better then anyone right up to close to retirement.   Including guys like Yzerman, Selanne, Iginla who were better then a lot of the Getzlaf aged guys who still play today.   So it's a bit naive to think that Luongo faced better competition then guys like Parent, Esposito, Smith, Furh, Belfour, Barrasso, Vernon, McLean, Hasek, Broduer and Roy etc.   One could say the 80-90's goalies faced the best there ever was because it was true.  Much smaller league back then and the level of forward talent was better then it's ever been.  Just look at how many super stars, stars and best all-time talent there was compared to now.   It's not even close and that's with 31 teams...although it seems to be on the upswing again for sure.

 

Some of these guys posted elite sp before the butterfly existed - including Parent, Espisito, and Dryden.

 

As far as comparing Luongo to his previous peers that didn't have the luxury of padding their win colums with shoot-out wins...well Luongo and especially Lundqvist take huge hits -there is a reason 400 wins used to be viewed as a exceptional accomplishment.   Luongo would be in the low 400s if you made them ties instead - Lundqvist would around Vernon - outside looking in. 

 

THN has been making lists for decades now - which included experts views on players from long ago eras that were alive back then to make proper comparisons.  One rule they have is once a player retires they can't move ahead of others that have etc.   Luongo has been around the high 20's recently.   Never won a Vezina - few second team all-star appearances etc.   In other words he wasn't even considered the best during his own era - how does that compare to guys that were?  Not favourably.   Yes he's the best to ever play for us ....and one the best in his era too.  And has consistently played at or near elite level for a very long time.  

 

Maybe Cujo is a good comparison.   The difference is Luongo won two gold medals and one as a starter - which is why he should going to the HHOF.   Otherwise he'd have to wait just like Cujo - even though factually Cujo has more wins if you level the playing field. 

Fair point on the shootouts. However as mentioned he'd still be over 400 wins, which keeps him in elite company. The lack of Vezina shouldn't really matter too much, as 2006-07 was clearly a Vezina caliber season. He puts up 47 wins any other year and it's an easy win. Shouldn't be discounted just because Brodeur had an even better season that year.

 

I would have to respectfully disagree on the talent pool though. There are still several superstars today, who would rack up even more points I would think if playing in the 90s or sooner, when scoring was higher/easier.

 

The main factor is the depth players overall are more talented than previous generations. That's of course in part due to the disappearance of the enforcer. Lots of skilled players playing in bottom six roles, who are all using better equipment, and have better training than previous eras.

 

Edited March 22, 2020 by Master Mind

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Luongo has been around the high 20's recently.   Never won a Vezina - few second team all-star appearances etc.   In other words he wasn't even considered the best during his own era - how does that compare to guys that were?  Not favourably.   Yes he's the best to ever play for us ....and one the best in his era too.  And has consistently played at or near elite level for a very long time.  

 

Maybe Cujo is a good comparison.   The difference is Luongo won two gold medals and one as a starter - which is why he should going to the HHOF.   Otherwise he'd have to wait just like Cujo - even though factually Cujo has more wins if you level the playing field. 

 

The tough question for me is something like Luongo vs. Barrasso.  Barrasso, two Cups and a Vezina (and a Calder).  Luongo, actually no NHL hardware really.  Yet Lu has top 2-5 all time career numbers and Barrasso - while not a Tim Thomas level brief peak - still can't get into the HOF for whatever reason, I am guessing career numbers that are merely "impressive" and perhaps a bit of a prickly personality.

 

Lu and Barrasso is kind of like a goalie version of Andreychuk / Recchi vs. Bure / Lindros.  I mean, Lu had a higher peak than Andreychuk or Recchi, and Barrasso had a longer peak run than Lindros, but it's kind of the same principle.  Actually, I would say Osgood and Joseph are the true Recchis and Andreychuks of the goalie world, and goalies don't seem to get respected by the Hall.  Guys like Liut (league MVP over Gretzky) or Moog or Resch or even Vernon don't even make the "who's in the running this year that has been waiting forever" and the same goes for defensemen...  How Doug Wilson isn't in the HOF yet is beyond me.  He should have been in ages ago and we should have been instead at least talking a little bit about players like Randy Carlyle or possibly Gary Suter or Sergei Gonchar.

 

Oh well...

 

Anyway, yeah, the three point games have really messed up the all-time goalie stats and that was one of my issues with them the day they floated the idea in the first place.  At least for these informal all-time discussions, we should take all the old dogs like Mike Liut and Don Beaupre and Richard Brodeur and take half their ties and make them into wins.

 

And that's not even considering how the number of games in a season has almost doubled since Rocket Richard's prime days.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Sean Monahan]

Voted Linden.

 

Perhaps it's already been covered, but what's our criteria here? Most talented? Best career? Most valuable to the franchise? Best career as a Canuck? 

 

Most talented, a guy like Mogilny would have to get some consideration somewhere in this list even though he certainly didn't have one of the 50 best Canuck careers. 

Best overall career? Guys like Messier and Sundin would be high on the list even though they weren't much as Canucks.

 

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Should have to post your age beside your vote for reasons obvious to anyone who saw all the cup runs, etc. 
 

Nominating Sundstom and someone should eventually do for Skriko.

 

Sundstrom's 93 point season record was very quickly forgotten by the city once Bure broke it.

 

And Lidster's still standing 63 point record had been completely forgotten itself until people just started wondering if Hughes would break it.

 

As McLean's records were forgotten once Luongo broke them, and Brodeur's records were forgotten once McLean broke those...

 

We've had three players who led the team to a Cup final and retired as the all time scoring leaders:  Henrik Sedin, Trevor Linden and Stan Smyl.

 

And we've had three goalies who backstopped the team to a Cup final and also retired as the career goalie leaders in everything:  Luongo, McLean and Brodeur.

 

And we've had some good to fantastic players who don't even seem to make it into trivia questions...

 

But I have hope.  I had a conversation on here where a guy scoffed at Tanti being listed among the very good Canucks and when I presented his resume...the guy was like, "hmmm... I guess I underestimated Tanti."  Which was refreshing, as I was kind of expecting a different response.

 

And you rightly mentioned Skriko.  He was a very good Canuck but a lot of people forget he was a magnificent player for Finland on the international stage.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Biff Tannen]

16 hours ago, Moose Nuckle said:

Luongo is the best player the Canucks have ever had. You're salty and it's ok cuz Luongo is peppering you. 

Bobby, is that you?

[Biff Tannen]

Voted Linden

 

Nominate Chaput Mogilny

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, Sean Monahan said:

Voted Linden.

 

Perhaps it's already been covered, but what's our criteria here? Most talented? Best career? Most valuable to the franchise? Best career as a Canuck? 

 

Most talented, a guy like Mogilny would have to get some consideration somewhere in this list even though he certainly didn't have one of the 50 best Canuck careers. 

Best overall career? Guys like Messier and Sundin would be high on the list even though they weren't much as Canucks.

 

It has been left to every person to decide.  But I think it's kind of understood that Messier and Sundin aren't all-time great "Canucks" (especially the Lays Chips Piggy).

 

Otherwise we'd be putting Gary Leeman and Jimmy Carson in the top twenty or thirty all-time Canucks because they did great stuff for the Leafs and Kings before suiting up as a Canuck for 20 games.

 

 

[RowdyCanuck]

22 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

It has been left to every person to decide.  But I think it's kind of understood that Messier and Sundin aren't all-time great "Canucks" (especially the Lays Chips Piggy).

 

Otherwise we'd be putting Gary Leeman and Jimmy Carson in the top twenty or thirty all-time Canucks because they did great stuff for the Leafs and Kings before suiting up as a Canuck for 20 games.

 

 

What about that cam Neely guy.....drafted a Canuck......