Do Canuck fans think Benning is a great GM?

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

It’s really TBD, but I finally bit the bullet and voted in the poll.
 

Went with the unpopular “Benning is not a great GM” option. He just hasn’t earned “great GM” status (yet). He very well may one day, but he’s yet to prove it to me.

 

I still see Benning’s tenure to-date as a bit of a mixed bag. Lots of highs and lows. I won’t bother making a list because then I’ll be forced into a bunch of replies to people nitpicking individual points (sorry, just not interested in those discussions, so I’m gonna cop out when it comes to bringing the receipts). 

Plus, most people are just going to agree or disagree anyway, regardless of how persuasive an argument I make. Many people seem to believe Benning can do no wrong, and they react quite emotionally to even the suggestion that he’s made mistakes. I don’t really understand those people, but what I have learned is that arguing with them is a fruitless exercise. Others think he’s “Dim Jim” and can’t do anything right. For them, any successes Benning has enjoyed are either flukes or the result of his underlings succeeding in spite of their boss. I have just as little interest in trying to argue with those people.
 

No degree of analysis of Benning’s management record is really going to sway the minds of either of those camps.
 

So, I’m not even gonna try.

 

Sorry.
 

And then, there’s the group of us in the middle. We acknowledge, appreciate, and celebrate the successes, but we also have some legitimate concerns about the failures. 
 

(And I’m definitely putting on the flak jacket now that I’ve openly stated on CDC that Benning has had failures.)

What I take some comfort in is that, IMO, Benning’s success to failure ratio has generally been improving over his tenure. I believe he’s learned from many of his mistakes, and is a better GM today for it.

 

But, even though he’s shown improvement in many areas, he’s not (yet) a great GM.

 

For me, where Benning will earn his final grade will be how he handles the coming extensions for our core, young players, especially Pettersson and Hughes, and whether or not he’ll be able to bring in the necessary pieces to build a legitimate contender around that core. It’s a monumental task, and one that, if done correctly, should earn him “great GM” status

 

And I’ll gladly give it to him, if he successfully navigates that next phase.

 

So, like I said at the top, it’s TBD, but as of today, he’s not a great GM. He hasn’t earned it (yet).
 

But I really hope he does.

Edited October 14, 2020 by SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME
Typos

[Baggins]

15 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Every team in the league starts off close to first overall, as the season progresses the gap widens.

Gillis again? good lord man he hasn't drafted for 7 going on 8 years. Why not blame Nonis?

You are about to witness what is on the farm, the team will need 4 more defencemen and three more forwards for depth, 16 games a month for 5+ months, exhaustion, injuries, illness, family, mental fatigue, inexperience, pressure combined with travel. They will be lucky to have a .400 win/loss record. Other teams within the division with more and better players just got deeper and improved.

 

Are you refuting Benning started with a barren prospect pool?

[Brovat]

On 10/13/2020 at 2:28 AM, iinatcc said:

Well considering the landscape of so many teams signing quality players to relatively cheap and low risk contracts a lot of teams of consequence (meaning expected to complete for a playoff spot) got better and Vancouver was one of the few teams that actually got worse. So in that respect yes they are one of the bigger losers this off season add to the fact that they only had 5 picks in the draft. Even Detroit and New Jersey got better.

 

In short other teams took advantage of the situation of cheaper contracts but not the Canucks. Something that would have been beneficial to the team.

 

Quality players to cheap low risk contracts. Who are you talking about? None of the ex-Canucks went that way except Stetcher who’s likely going to be on the top pairing in Detroit next season. Perhaps you should be a fan of the Wings and their fiscal responsibility if that’s what you value. 

[CaptKirk888]

As usual, when something doesn’t go as they wanted the doom and gloom haters come out from under their bridges.

i don’t recognize half the posters in this thread, where were they when this team was on a decent playoff run?

A lot of bias and crystal balling.

[Lazurus]

14 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

I think Benning is a good GM, not a great one. He has his warts, but so does everyGM. He's a fantastic at the draft, hit and miss at trades and poor at signings, but his record in the latter two categories is improving.

 

The thing everyone in the 'Fire Benning' camp seems to neglect is that if you can him he does need to be replaced. And it seems nobody who wants to fire him has his next in line lined up, and you can't just get rid of him and watch the team magically win the cup without a GM. I'm convinced most people in that camp are just part of the vocal minority of canucks fans who look to complain about everything.

Over the same period of time with the same team only ONE GM has had a worse record, Milbury and the NYI,

 

Possible GM? Off the top of my head, Mark Hunter?

[Lazurus]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

As usual, when something doesn’t go as they wanted the doom and gloom haters come out from under their bridges.

i don’t recognize half the posters in this thread, where were they when this team was on a decent playoff run?

A lot of bias and crystal balling.

I didn't post much, one of the first games I posted everyone should enjoy the games and that this was a one time team, and why it was, I was correct, cap problems, cash problems, contract problems all contributed to that group being a one time all out effort, I also posted they would not get Toffoli, Tanev or Markstrom back, not that was so bad it was just the cost of Toffoli for 14 games and now, while a good trade for Schmidt, the cost could be more than just the 3rd, it could be Gaudette and Virtanen as well. Recently there is talk of Gallagher instead of either JV or AG, but that worsens the cap problems for the future

[iinatcc]

2 hours ago, Brovat said:

Quality players to cheap low risk contracts. Who are you talking about? None of the ex-Canucks went that way except Stetcher who’s likely going to be on the top pairing in Detroit next season. Perhaps you should be a fan of the Wings and their fiscal responsibility if that’s what you value. 

I am a Canucks fan for life. But it's not like my concerns are unfounded, the folks in TSN and, to a lesser extent, Sportsnet have the same sentiment. 

[McBackup]

1 hour ago, Lazurus said:

Over the same period of time with the same team only ONE GM has had a worse record, Milbury and the NYI,

 

Possible GM? Off the top of my head, Mark Hunter?

Neat

[Brovat]

46 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I am a Canucks fan for life. But it's not like my concerns are unfounded, the folks in TSN and, to a lesser extent, Sportsnet have the same sentiment. 

I read an article out of Edmonton where the author thought the Oilers had won the UFA market by signing Barrie. It’s all relative. I wish Tanev could of stayed. That’s the one that hurts my feelings. At the end of the day though if I was the Canucks gm I wouldn’t of made that deal either. 
 

I think this team on paper relatively healthy will make the playoffs. I also think now is the time where the prospects (fellas who are not regulars) will have to start stepping up if the Canucks are going to turn into the team we all want them to be.
 

3 excellent rookies 3 seasons in a row is a great start. Now the meat and potato grinder/depth forwards need to start being injected and at least 1 more prospect d-man needs to project to be a true top 4 guy. If you throw a handful of chili at the wall at least one bean has to stick. 
 

I’m personally happy no long term contracts were handed out. My perspective is “losing” at the UFA market means there’s nothing to panic about fixing. 
 

Perspective: I also thought Dallas was insane for signing a bunch of over the hill vets as well though. Haha. 

[alt kilgore]

7 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s really TBD, but I finally bit the bullet and voted in the poll.
 

Went with the unpopular “Benning is not a great GM” option. He just hasn’t earned “great GM” status (yet). He very well may one day, but he’s yet to prove it to me.

 

I still see Benning’s tenure to-date as a bit of a mixed bag. Lots of highs and lows. I won’t bother making a list because then I’ll be forced into a bunch of replies to people nitpicking individual points (sorry, just not interested in those discussions, so I’m gonna cop out when it comes to bringing the receipts). 

Plus, most people are just going to agree or disagree anyway, regardless of how persuasive an argument I make. Many people seem to believe Benning can do no wrong, and they react quite emotionally to even the suggestion that he’s made mistakes. I don’t really understand those people, but what I have learned is that arguing with them is a fruitless exercise. Others think he’s “Dim Jim” and can’t do anything right. For them, any successes Benning has enjoyed are either flukes or the result of his underlings succeeding in spite of their boss. I have just as little interest in trying to argue with those people.
 

No degree of analysis of Benning’s management record is really going to sway the minds of either of those camps.
 

So, I’m not even gonna try.

 

Sorry.
 

And then, there’s the group of us in the middle. We acknowledge, appreciate, and celebrate the successes, but we also have some legitimate concerns about the failures. 
 

(And I’m definitely putting on the flak jacket now that I’ve openly stated on CDC that Benning has had failures.)

What I take some comfort in is that, IMO, Benning’s success to failure ratio has generally been improving over his tenure. I believe he’s learned from many of his mistakes, and is a better GM today for it.

 

But, even though he’s shown improvement in many areas, he’s not (yet) a great GM.

 

For me, where Benning will earn his final grade will be how he handles the coming extensions for our core, young players, especially Pettersson and Hughes, and whether or not he’ll be able to bring in the necessary pieces to build a legitimate contender around that core. It’s a monumental task, and one that, if done correctly, should earn him “great GM” status

 

And I’ll gladly give it to him, if he successfully navigates that next phase.

 

So, like I said at the top, it’s TBD, but as of today, he’s not a great GM. He hasn’t earned it (yet).
 

But I really hope he does.

I agree for the most part.

His first test was when he came in. To honestly analyze the team as it was, and make hard choices sooner rather than later. Stand up to the owner if that is necessary. He failed that first test.

His first years he kept this team floating near the bottom of the league, in spite of dropping picks and prospects for FA and trades in a long shot hope to get into and catch fire in the playoffs.  And for gawd's sake don't use the "R" word ever!!!  To placate Aquilini? who  knows?

 

He has been good in the draft, notably stealing Hughes and Petey. Miller has been a gawd send, even if it cost us a #1 in an already sparse cupboard.

 

Getting Schmidt was good.  But losing Toffoli and Stecher for doable contracts was puzzling. How much of that was his management style and JB's assumptions that Tofu and Stech would just sit around waiting while he spent all his time on Markstrom, which failed too in the end?

 

But we'll see.   I cannot be pessimistic, despite acknowledging JBs past mistakes which some here just don't allow themselves to go there for some reason, I have high hopes. Mostly because our young core is stellar, Bo, Boeser, Petey, Hughes, Demko. As well Myers and his size is a good addition, despite the price tag. And signing Motte was a good move. You can't win with just the core, as Edmonton knows, But filling out the other pieces is less difficult in building a winner.

 

"Benning will earn his final grade will be how he handles the coming extensions for our core",  

This is the key. And more important than losing Stecher and Toffoli, Madden and more picks today, despite how much I and others may rant about it.  Benning could still pull a few rabbits out his helmet.  I don't mind him being patient now. Its smart to wait until other teams get more desperate to make a deal.

 

[iceman64]

3 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

As usual, when something doesn’t go as they wanted the doom and gloom haters come out from under their bridges.

i don’t recognize half the posters in this thread, where were they when this team was on a decent playoff run?

A lot of bias and crystal balling.

That shouldn't surprise you actually, most of the stupidity your reading here is coming from parrots who don't think for themselves, they just say exactly what the clueless clowns of the media sort and the $&!# they make up.. same ole $&!# every year... I guess some find it too difficult to think for themselves hey?  Yes I'll say it again, I thought this would stop when JT proved my point of that by coming here and lighting it up better than anyone on the whole team but again, nothing new..  

[kanucks25]

4 hours ago, CaptKirk888 said:

As usual, when something doesn’t go as they wanted the doom and gloom haters come out from under their bridges.

i don’t recognize half the posters in this thread, where were they when this team was on a decent playoff run?

A lot of bias and crystal balling.

What is this with this forum and labeling anyone that disagrees with them a "hater" or "troll".

 

I was under the impression that the majority of this forum's users were adults but maybe I was wrong lol.

It's possible for someone to disagree with you and not warrant childish name calling and labelling that I used to do on gaming forums when I was 13 years old.

Edited October 14, 2020 by kanucks25

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Far from great, but you can see the improvement in his abilities as a GM over the years. Remember, this is his first gig as a GM. 

[whcanuck]

I feel like I’m in a very small minority in that I think we still have a very good team. Our best players are quite young and should keep improving. Players like Bo Horvat who had excellent playoffs, should be continuing to grow and mature. I actually trust Benning. He’s made some errors, but this team now compared to 4 years ago is drastically better.

[Toews]

On 10/12/2020 at 12:12 PM, Robert Long said:

But Linden was fully on board with the retool, and the moves to try to keep the remaining older core competitive. 

 

We all have theories about what went on in the room between Aquilini and Linden but none of us know, but I can tell you we know as much as Ed Willies does. 

 

My pet theory is the declining attendance, which I suspect Linden didn't have an answer for. He just failed at a 4 year retool, his hand picked coach was a disaster, and now wanted a 4 year rebuild. Thats 8 years of bad hockey with potentially declining seat and luxury box revenue. Thats where I think things went sideways. 

 

Linden got on board with the plan because that's how he was going to get the job. He knew that the previous guy got turfed for proposing a rebuild. He also wasn't a credible hire for President of Hockey Operations. He had limited experience as a hockey executive, he had spent some time as a union rep but other than that his resume was owning and managing gyms. If he turns down this opportunity, its likely he never gets a shot like this again. Elsewhere he might have to climb the ladder, starting off as assistant or in scouting and working his way up hockey ops. Look at how long it took for Benning to get this opportunity.

 

Neither man was motivated to challenge the direction set forth by the man that signs the cheques. They were willing to make the best of an imperfect situation. Linden kept changing his tune when questioned on the organization's plan, initially it was establishing a 'winning culture', then it turned into 'competitive environment', then it was 'unfair to the Sedins'.

 

That last incredulous remark I felt went too far. As if a near billion dollar franchise is going to hold off key decisions based on two past their prime superstars. As if Linden was going to hinge his track record in management on being 'fair'. Anyone could see that this team badly needed a rebuild. Tortorella spoke plainly, he knew we were screwed when he decided to mail it in, taking long naps in his office. In a ways we are paying the price for not accepting our fate sooner. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Toews

[Toews]

10 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

It’s really TBD, but I finally bit the bullet and voted in the poll.
 

Went with the unpopular “Benning is not a great GM” option. He just hasn’t earned “great GM” status (yet). He very well may one day, but he’s yet to prove it to me.

 

I still see Benning’s tenure to-date as a bit of a mixed bag. Lots of highs and lows. I won’t bother making a list because then I’ll be forced into a bunch of replies to people nitpicking individual points (sorry, just not interested in those discussions, so I’m gonna cop out when it comes to bringing the receipts). 

Plus, most people are just going to agree or disagree anyway, regardless of how persuasive an argument I make. Many people seem to believe Benning can do no wrong, and they react quite emotionally to even the suggestion that he’s made mistakes. I don’t really understand those people, but what I have learned is that arguing with them is a fruitless exercise. Others think he’s “Dim Jim” and can’t do anything right. For them, any successes Benning has enjoyed are either flukes or the result of his underlings succeeding in spite of their boss. I have just as little interest in trying to argue with those people.
 

No degree of analysis of Benning’s management record is really going to sway the minds of either of those camps.
 

So, I’m not even gonna try.

 

Sorry.

Two ideological extremes, sort of reminds me of politics, people just pick a corner and never look back. Then they insult and berate people who they don't see as part of their 'clan'. I too no longer see the point in responding to ideologues, its a waste of time. If someone can't be convinced that the Linden Vey trade was a dud or refuses to accept that the Miller trade was a good one, then they likely will make excuses (and refer to it as "context") in every scenario you place in front of them. Tribalism in human beings is such a weakness when it overrides rational thought, it just lessens the possibility of civil discourse especially on the internet where its very easy to call anyone an 'idiot' or a 'troll'. Quite frankly, its just plain sad.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Toews

[Honky Cat]

I think he is a good/decent GM, but a great GM..?..absolutely not, so I voted no..To be honest, I don't think the Canucks have ever had a 'great' GM (and thats no disrespect to the late Pat Quinn).

Bennings work has been a mixed bag, but I do believe he is getting better.

[CaptKirk888]

1 hour ago, kanucks25 said:

What is this with this forum and labeling anyone that disagrees with them a "hater" or "troll".

 

I was under the impression that the majority of this forum's users were adults but maybe I was wrong lol.

It's possible for someone to disagree with you and not warrant childish name calling and labelling that I used to do on gaming forums when I was 13 years old.

That is not the point. It's not that I disagree with some of the comments. My point is they don't seem to be here unless they have something to complain about. Nor was I name calling, just calling it for how I see it. You know, my opinion. But hey you have your opinion too, and I respect that.

[Timråfan]

Benning is a good scout with lots of contacts through his father. 

This means that he's not a great GM

This means he knows how to find good players.

If finding good players is the only thing a GM has to do to be great...

Hey, is the GM a scout? 

[AV.]

No.

 

He might have an eye for talent but his tenure has proven he doesn't know what to do with his talent.  It certainly doesn't help that he has the biggest clown ever in John Weisbrod as his AGM.  It's a shame; Benning is a super likeable guy, loves hockey, etc but his skillset is best suited to being a director of scouting and not a lead in a front office.

 

The sooner Jim and John go, the sooner we might become a steadier team.