Blackhawks core veterans “have had enough”

[D-Money]

Toews and Kane have won exactly 1 playoff game since the 2nd year off their new contracts (2016-17).

 

You'd think by now they'd know the team sucks.

[Monty]

24 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Toews and Kane have won exactly 1 playoff game since the 2nd year off their new contracts (2016-17).

 

You'd think by now they'd know the team sucks.

Players obviously know their club has deficiencies, but that doesn't mean they don't remain competitive internally, or that they don't desire for things to change. And for guys that essentially played on the current modern day dynasty, with the roster changing players several times, yet still winning Cups, has to be frustrating.

 

I think its one thing for a player to be on a team for years and never be competitive, then to say something like this. But Toews and Kane will be inducted into the HOF, with loads of team and personal accomplishments on the ice. I applaud them for putting pressure on the club publicly, showing that they don't buy into a rebuild and want to give the fans a club that still wants to remain competitive. Whether that's realistic or not, that's another discussion. But to convey to fans and ownership that you still want to be competitive is a positive.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Monty

[Down by the River]

I don't see anything wrong with what Toews said. I think it was more about the Blackhawks not being honest/upfront about what they were doing. I don't think Toews is necessarily saying that the leadership group needs to be consulted about the direction of the franchise, but I think they've done enough to be kept in the loop. 

[IBatch]

On 10/11/2020 at 3:58 PM, canuktravella said:

 if im bowman i ship toews out even if half salary retained  if he wanted to win another cup he should have taken 7 mill a yr not 10  

Yep.   They cashed in and since at best have managed a bubble effort.   Cap world.   Has to be both ignorant and naive to think one of their core guys would be walking at some point.    Should just be grateful he won three cups and collect his paycheque because that’s exactly what both him and Kane signed up for their last contract. 

[JeremyCuddles]

37 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

I don't see anything wrong with what Toews said. I think it was more about the Blackhawks not being honest/upfront about what they were doing. I don't think Toews is necessarily saying that the leadership group needs to be consulted about the direction of the franchise, but I think they've done enough to be kept in the loop. 

They need to be told that being a middle of the pack team isn't a good long term plan? They aren't good enough for the playoffs and don't suck enough for the top end of the lottery. Of course they need to move assets for kids and picks. If the leadership group needs to be told their cap hits are too much to keep a sustainable  playoff team maybe they are stupid.

[canucks.brad]

Big Chicago fan here but Toews and Kane have no one to blame but themselves here. Their contracts are massive and eat up a lot of cap space. Yes they have earned it, but it has hampered their ability to ice a competitive team. 

 

Also the Saad for Panarin trade killed them...

 

As someone else mentioned as well, it's great they have the fire in them, even after 3 cup wins! 

[DeNiro]

16 minutes ago, canucks.bradley said:

Big Chicago fan here but Toews and Kane have no one to blame but themselves here. Their contracts are massive and eat up a lot of cap space. Yes they have earned it, but it has hampered their ability to ice a competitive team. 

 

Also the Saad for Panarin trade killed them...

 

As someone else mentioned as well, it's great they have the fire in them, even after 3 cup wins! 

They should have done everything they could to keep Panarin. They would probably still be competitive if they did.

 

Even if they didn’t take less they would eat up the same amount as the Leafs top 3.

 

Just a horrible move by Bowman there. Not only that they gave up Motte in the deal too. Should have been fired for that alone.

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by DeNiro

[knucklehead91]

6 hours ago, Monty said:

Players obviously know their club has deficiencies, but that doesn't mean they don't remain competitive internally, or that they don't desire for things to change. And for guys that essentially played on the current modern day dynasty, with the roster changing players several times, yet still winning Cups, has to be frustrating.

 

I think its one thing for a player to be on a team for years and never be competitive, then to say something like this. But Toews and Kane will be inducted into the HOF, with loads of team and personal accomplishments on the ice. I applaud them for putting pressure on the club publicly, showing that they don't buy into a rebuild and want to give the fans a club that still wants to remain competitive. Whether that's realistic or not, that's another discussion. But to convey to fans and ownership that you still want to be competitive is a positive.

Shoulda taken paycuts. I have no sympathy whatsoever. They won 3 cups and coulda had a chance at maybe a 4th cup if they didnt get greedy. Signing 10.5mil deals and then complaining a few years down the road they are unhappy with management and feel that management isnt doing enough to remain competitive is a f*****g joke. I hope their last years of their contract are absolutely miserable for publicly calling out management after inking those big deals and handcuffing their team.

[Kragar]

On 10/15/2020 at 7:32 AM, Monty said:

However, nobody wants him here  precisely because of his price tag. You cannot remain competitive year in and year out with a contract like that, unless that player is top 3 in the league. Just not worth it. 

I'm confused, Monty.  In the thread, you seem to be defending Toews' comments in the article, but that doesn't seem to reconcile with your own.  If the contract he signed is not worth it, as he is far from top 3 now (was he even top 3 at the time of signing???), then how do his comments hold up?  While many will say they got paid for their Cup wins, it's not like Toews & Kane were underpaid before their new contracts, so it's not like they needed management to make up some lost earnings.  They went for the big bucks, and they got paid.

 

Sure, it is great that they want to compete, but they (Toews, Kane, Seabrook) take a good sized share of the blame for tying managements' hands.  While I agree with your point about them talking about being competitive and wanting to win, but their past actions disagree with their current stance.

 

Knock 1.5M each off of Toews and Kane's contracts, and not sign Seabrook (20/20 hindsight aside, his contract was stupid from the get-go... 4 years too long, at least), and the Hawks would be a better team for it. 

 

They chose to eat the cake.  Fair enough, but don't complain when it's gone.

[TNucks1]

toews kane seabrook keiths contracts probs why.

[-Vintage Canuck-]

 

[mll]

Quote

When Blackhawks captain Jonathan Toews came out of the woodwork to voice his frustration regarding the team's offseason moves, it was significant. This was the first time a member of the leadership group publicly questioned the roster decisions, which signaled a real disconnect between the players and front office. 

 

“Bottom line is, I want to win,” Toews told The Athletic. “The expectation for the other leaders on this team and myself is to come ready to training camp every year to be a playoff team. We prepare ourselves to win a Cup for our fans. I’ve never been told that we were going through a rebuild. That has never been communicated to me, for that matter. A lot of this comes as a shock because it’s a completely different direction than we expected.”  

 

The Blackhawks want to be more transparent going forward and they started that process on Tuesday by sending out a letter to their fans. But privately, it began last week.  

 

After Toews' comments sent shockwaves through the city, Blackhawks GM Stan Bowman organized a video conference call with senior vice president of hockey operations Al MacIsaac, head coach Jeremy Colliton and the Core Four — Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Brent Seabrook and Toews. It was vital that the seven of them got on the same page to clear up any confusion about the direction of the franchise.  

 

"We had a very good discussion, in-depth discussion about where we're going," Bowman revealed in an exclusive one-hour interview on the Blackhawks Talk Podcast. "I think part of this communication here is to clear up some miscommunications or perceptions. It's really not a rebuild in a tense of 'we're tearing this down and we're just getting rid of all the players.' Sometimes you do have to make difficult decisions to trade away popular players and it's hard for our veterans who've been together.  

 

"It's certainly a difficult thing when you have to part ways with somebody who's been here and you've spent so much time with, but in my conversations with our veteran players, I've tried to explain to them — much like I am to you — what we're trying to do. We're trying to build more depth to make it easier on them. I think it's a lot for a couple guys to try to carry the load and we need to build up a better supporting cast, so as much as it might be hard for them to understand, I think as we discussed it more and more and explained it, I think they understand what we're trying to accomplish."  

 

Rather than sit down with each player individually, Bowman felt it was important to do so as a group. There's a reason for that.  

 

"What you don't want to do, I don't want there to be any misunderstanding; one player interpreted one thing one way, someone else interpreted it a different way," Bowman said. "I wanted to make sure that we were all on the same page. It was probably an hour long, we talked, and it was a lot of back and forth.

 

"I certainly started the conversation, but I would say everybody weighed in with their thoughts and their questions they had, and I think by the time we ended the call, it appeared as if there was a better appreciation for what was happening. I don't want to put words in their mouth, they can speak for themselves, but I think it was good to clarify anything that might've been unclear."

 

Bowman acknowledged it's a "balancing act" of keeping the three-time Stanley Cup champions who have earned that respect in the loop on things but not involving them in the day to day operations. And understandably so.

 

Kane, Keith, Seabrook and Toews are the four players who set the tone inside the locker room and there must be buy-in from them or else the rest of the roster won't. They also have full no-movement clauses, but Bowman didn't get the impression that any of them wanted out. They want to win again, and they want to do it in Chicago.

 

"That's a tough hypothetical because that wasn't the feeling I got from them," Bowman said. "I guess we would tackle that at the time, I don't really want to speculate what that would look like or who it is or when it happens, I'm not sure that there's an answer to that. If that ever came up, we would deal with that in the moment, but right now, what I was trying to get across to them and to you as well, is this isn't just about one or two or three players.

 

"There's going to be a day where none of those players are playing anymore, there's going to be a day where I'm not involved, there's going to be a day where Jeremy's [Colliton] not involved. The Blackhawks organization will thrive and survive moving forward, so the team is what matters most. Now, in order to have team success, you certainly need individual players to do well. But what we're trying to do is, we're trying to build up more of a team approach than maybe we've had in the past because I think that's our path back to the top of the mountain and we're working our way up. It's about the collective, that we need to try to put this together."

 

[flat land fish]

Dear hawks fans you are about to enter purgatory and you may not leave until your former stars retire or are traded.  Given their contracts it appears this will last 5 years.  They will set team record’s eventually you get to celebrate the good times retiring a jersey but you will probably not sniff the playoffs for atleast 5 years and being a top team for much longer.  Enjoy your cups well earned but the glory days are past you.

[Violator]

In this cap system you can afford two people at 10+ a year

 

E5 Kane for virtanen and Ericsson

Edited October 20, 2020 by Violator

[Gnarcore]

On 10/14/2020 at 8:31 AM, skolozsy2 said:

Blackhawks fans have had enough too.  We've wanted Seabrook gone for years, and yet, he's still here. 

 

Hawks fans also have no qualms about losing Crawford, we appreciate what he's done in the past, but he's past his prime and has some serious concussion issues. Cagguila has the same concussion issues, he's one hit from being lost for season.

 

And Saad, really.  The guy who held the Hawks ransom for a bigger paycheck the first chance he got.  Give me a break.

 

It's time for a rebuild, simple as that.  Maybe all the moves won't work out, but its moving in the right direction in my opinion. 

That fair. It is also fair no one has helped you guys get rid of that terrible contract

[Patel Bure]

On 10/11/2020 at 12:36 PM, grandmaster said:

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2037605
 

The Chicago Blackhawks' veteran core - Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, and Brent Seabrook - is fed up with the organization's early offseason moves, according to The Athletic's Mark Lazerus.

"They're pissed. The core guys have had enough," one source said.

Toews told Lazerus the club's offseason transactions don't align with his desire to win.

 

 

"Bottom line is, I want to win," Toews said. "The expectation for the other leaders on this team and myself is to come ready to training camp every year to be a playoff team. We prepare ourselves to win a Cup for our fans.

"I've never been told that we were going through a rebuild. That has never been communicated to me, for that matter. A lot of this comes as a shock because it's a completely different direction than we expected."

This offseason, the Blackhawks have let longtime goaltender Corey Crawford walk in free agency, traded forward Brandon Saad, and failed to extend qualifying offers to reliable depth pieces in Drake Caggiulaand Slater Koekkoek.

Each of those moves made Chicago's roster weaker on paper. They also come just months after the 12th-seeded Blackhawks eliminated the Edmonton Oilers in the qualifying round to make the playoffs for the first time since 2017.

The funniest thing that I get from this article is that Brent Seabrook is upset.    Seabrook hasn’t been relevant to hockey since the Obama administration.

 

Instead of being upset, Seabrook should be thankful that he’s not working at BC Ferries Horseshoe Bay terminal.

[ShawnAntoski]

The Haks are fine and these Chumpions should finish there career with the team that signed them to those contracts. 

[khay]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:26 PM, DeNiro said:

They should have done everything they could to keep Panarin. They would probably still be competitive if they did.

 

Even if they didn’t take less they would eat up the same amount as the Leafs top 3.

 

Just a horrible move by Bowman there. Not only that they gave up Motte in the deal too. Should have been fired for that alone.

 

Honestly, Bowman hasn't done $hit other than having a HOF and best coach ever as dad. 

 

He inherited a great roster and a great coach that won him 3 cups. All he's done is to slowly piss away those assets one by one leading up to their current situation.

 

That Panarin trade didn't make any sense. I feel like Panarin could have been had at around 7 (Nylander money). That would have put them in a situation to compete year in and year out.

 

Personally, I'm happy to see Chicago be mediocre so... Go Stan! Continue with what you were doing!

[khay]

On 10/20/2020 at 2:28 PM, Violator said:

In this cap system you can afford two people at 10+ a year

 

E5 Kane for virtanen and Ericsson

You can?

 

I feel like 2 players at 10+ makes it near impossible to win a cup. 

 

Frankly, other than McDavid, no one deserves 10+ mil in the NHL. Well, maybe MacKinnon. 

 

Toewes is an all-star caliber player but he doesn't deserve 10+ mil. 

 

Our future success depends heavily on getting EP and QH under 9, preferably around 8.5. Heck, even OV is only getting 9.5. With flat cap for the next x years, it's a hard sell from EP and QH's agents to ask for something higher than 9.

 

[Violator]

1 hour ago, khay said:

You can?

 

I feel like 2 players at 10+ makes it near impossible to win a cup. 

 

Frankly, other than McDavid, no one deserves 10+ mil in the NHL. Well, maybe MacKinnon. 

 

Toewes is an all-star caliber player but he doesn't deserve 10+ mil. 

 

Our future success depends heavily on getting EP and QH under 9, preferably around 8.5. Heck, even OV is only getting 9.5. With flat cap for the next x years, it's a hard sell from EP and QH's agents to ask for something higher than 9.

 

I meant cant