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1 minute ago, Kanukfanatic said:

You apparently are uninformed about gun ownership in Canada.

 

If you have a possession and acquisition license for non-restricted and restricted firearms, you can purchase as many as you want. Most Canadians think we cannot.

true

my post was grounded in irony

not fact

 

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9 minutes ago, Canorth said:

It’s also suggesting that tax dollars won’t help with Covid19 by association to “global warming”

 

its a retarded dangerous f*cked up message. 

 

 

By the sounds of it, Covid-19 is helping climate change or am I just tangling things up more than I need to :bigblush:

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Just now, bree2 said:

I just got some scary news, My grandson and his live in girlfriend  had to call an ambulance,  for her as she has a bad cough, chest pain, both have colds. she has been working where she had to be in public. some workers tested positive last week, so she was brought in to work full time.  

:(

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1 minute ago, bree2 said:

I just got some scary news, My grandson and his live in girlfriend  had to call an ambulance,  for her as she has a bad cough, chest pain, both have colds. she has been working where she had to be in public. some workers tested positive last week, so she was brought in to work full time.  

thoughts are with you Bree - good luck to them, hopefully its just a bad cold. 

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2 hours ago, bree2 said:

thank you, I am sitting here in tears, I wish I could help them

 

Fingers crossed. At least now they are at the right place / hospital getting top professional care.

I spent the last few years in and out of ICU / High Acuity wards with my dad.....  Hospitals are full of excellent nurses and doctors.

Fingers crossed for speedy recoveries for your family members. 

Edited by kingofsurrey
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The following is just opinion........

 

Coming around to the idea that the only useful coronavirus number is deaths

Sat 28 Mar 2020 14:45:21 GMT

 

If you work backwards from the number of deaths, you get some troublesome numbers

If you work backwards from the number of deaths, you get some troublesome numbers
Testing and confirmed numbers all over the world are basically only indicative of how much you're testing. Even among nations that are testing at high rates, there are numbers that don't add up.
 
New York State and the UK have done about the same amount of tests and yet the UK has found one-third as many cases. So there must be fewer overall cases in the UK, right?
 
Yet the UK has 759 deaths compared to 519 in the US. The UK's median age is 40.5 compared to 38.1 in the US but it's healthier on some other metrics so I don't think that's a significant factor. Is the healthcare system that much more effective in the US? Possibly but by that much?
 
It's the same thing with a dozen other countries. There are quirks everywhere with the testing population and the quality of the tests themselves.

Even deaths themselves aren't iron clad. The first US confirmed death was recorded more than a week after the person died when they went back and tested. Surely many people who have died of 'pneumonia' in many countries had the virus but I still think that's the best number we've got.
 
So if you work back from deaths and you make a few assumptions here's what you get.
 
Assumptions:
  • 0.8%-1.0% mortality
  • 5 days from time of exposure to first symptoms
  • 25 days on average from time of exposure to death
  • Cases double every 3 days
Now take the US where there are at 1,358 as of Friday. If that's 1% of the people who had the virus 25 days ago (or longer) then 25 days ago then 135,800 people had it on March 2, including those who had contracted it but didn't have symptoms.
 
If you assume a doubling every three days, that gives you 43.8 million cases right now with about 33 million not yet showing any symptoms. Given how many celebrities, executives and politicians have tested positive already, that's entirely believable.
 
That's too high because the US started some social distancing measures on March 16 and got more aggressive on the 23. At best that gives you aggressive growth for another 4 days but 10 days is more realistic given the Italian experience.
 
As for places like Italy and Spain with unusually high mortality rates, you have to add adjustments for age and things like smoking but smoking levels are also high in China and the Wuhan mortality rate (at least officially) was 1.4%.
 
Take Spain, it has 4858 deaths as of Friday, which would mean 485,800 cases a month ago with three-quarters not showing any symptoms. That would have been March 2. There was no national lockdown until March 14. Some simple math from there and you have to assume everyone in the country is exposed to it, eventually.
Edited by nuckin_futz
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10 minutes ago, gurn said:

Warning:

This story will leave you crying.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/anything-good-i-could-say-about-this-would-be-a-lie/ar-BB11QoWz?ocid=spartandhp

"

She’s dead, and I’m quarantined. That’s how the story ends. I keep going back over it in loops, trying to find a way to sweeten it, but nothing changes the facts. I wasn’t there with her at the end. I didn’t get to say goodbye. I don’t even know where her body is right now, or if the only thing that’s left is her ashes.

From normal life to this hell in a week. That’s how long it took. How am I supposed to make any sense of that? It’s loops and more loops.

An oral history of covid-19. First in a series.

She transported cars for a rental company. That’s where all this must have come from. People fly in from somewhere for a meeting and fly out a few hours later. You’ve got germs from all over the world inside those cars. I didn’t like the fact that she was working so hard, 69 years old and still climbing in and out of Ford Fusions all day, driving from Indianapolis to St. Louis and back with bad knees, bad hips, diabetes, and all the rest of it. Sometimes, she hurt so much after work I had to help her out of the car. I guess I should have told her to quit, but nobody told Birdie anything. She liked to drive, and we needed the money.

I think she’d been feeling bad for a few days, but I don’t remember much about what happened early on. She wasn’t a complainer, and I’m not always the best at noticing. There was a cough somewhere in there. Probably a touch of a fever. But this was a few weeks back, when those things didn’t mean so much. I thought she had a cold, or maybe bronchitis. She would get that sometimes, lose her voice and be fine a few days later, no big deal. But then she woke me up at about 4 in the morning and kept pointing to her throat. She said she couldn’t sleep. Said her eyes hurt. Said it felt like somebody was pounding on top of her head. Birdie’s usually one of those who wants to rub some dirt on it and keep moving, so when she told me to take her to the emergency room, I knew it was serious. I knew she was sick.

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First it was a fever of 103. Then the doctors decided it was pneumonia and went ahead and admitted her. Then it was pneumonia in both of her lungs. If anybody was thinking it was the coronavirus, I didn’t hear it — at least not at first. Nobody in Indiana had it yet. Even if it was killing people in Washington state and starting to infect people in New York, it was basically happening on TV.

The best precautions weren’t taken in the early stages. A few nurses wore gloves or masks when they came to see Birdie, but that seemed normal for treating pneumonia. I didn’t wear anything, and nobody really asked me to. I was lying next to her in the bed or sitting in a chair and holding her hand. She didn’t have much other family, and if I got up to go out into the hallway for a few minutes, I’d kiss her goodbye.

Would it have gone any different if they knew what it was? Maybe. Or maybe they would have quarantined her right then, and I would have lost a few more days with her.

See, I could analyze this to death. I’ll be doing this for the rest of my life.

a man wearing a suit and tie smiling and looking at the camera: Tony Sizemore, whose partner was the first person known to have died of covid-19 in Indiana. (Chris Bergin for The Washington Post) © Chris Bergin/For The Washington Post Tony Sizemore, whose partner was the first person known to have died of covid-19 in Indiana. (Chris Bergin for The Washington Post)

It was hard for me to sit there. I’m almost ashamed to say that, but it’s true. She was in the bed, and I was usually a few feet away in the recliner. It was two or three days in that room, but each one felt like a year. I’m not a natural caretaker, and never claimed to be, but it seemed like no matter what I tried, I couldn’t help her. It was just watch, wait, touch her forehead, apologize. I couldn’t do anything. Nobody could.

She was taking so much oxygen, but it was never enough. She had two little tubes put in her nose, and she couldn’t get enough air. They put a big mask on her face to get her oxygen back up, and that made her claustrophobic and panicky. She got real freaked out. I tried to count breaths with her. I kept saying: “Easy. Easy. In, out. In, out.” I couldn’t distract her because she was so deep in her head with panic. It labored her to talk. It labored her to breathe. I said, “Don’t talk then, honey. Save your energy.” There was a TV in there, but neither of us could focus on it. I sat in the quiet with her, for whatever comfort that might have brought her. I don’t know. I listened to her breathing. I watched her. When she was asleep she was taking these real quick, short breaths, like she was gulping air more than breathing it. When she was awake, she was kind of mumbling to herself. Maybe it was the medication they were giving her. I hope to God it was the medication. She was talking about how her eyes hurt, her insides hurt. She would clutch her fists and hit the bed and stuff, and you don’t really know how to help somebody in that frame. I mean, when she’s just clutching her fists and moaning and — I don’t know. I don’t know what I could have done. I sat there for as long as I could and then I got up every few hours to pace the hallway, or I’d drive eight minutes home to feed the dogs. I was starting to go a little crazy myself. I couldn’t keep sitting there, feeling helpless, listening to her breathe.

It was an awful time. I should be thankful she’s not suffering anymore, but she did suffer some.

It got worse. Her breaths got raspy. Shorter. They put her on life support. They rolled her across the hall one afternoon and tested her for the virus. At some point in there, I went home after midnight to check on the dogs, and when I came back early the next morning there was a sign that said “No Visitors” taped to the door of the hallway that led to her room. The whole thing became confusing to me. They said I couldn’t go in. They said nobody could. I sat in the waiting room for hours. I peeked through the window down the hallway once and saw them moving her to a different room. It looked like she was sleeping with the tube down her throat. The doctor said she was heavily sedated to stay comfortable. I’d like to believe that, but I don’t know if she was comfortable or not.

When they said the test was positive, that’s when I started thinking this virus was a death sentence for her. She had every underlying condition it attacks. Damaged lungs. High blood pressure. Her body wasn’t strong enough. She was lying there waiting to die.

The doctors told me to go home, but I didn’t. Most of the time I sat by the elevators in the waiting room. Nobody else was in there. Sometimes one of Birdie’s friends would come sit with me. The doctors kept saying, “No change.” “No change.” It had been five days now since she’d woken me up pointing at her throat. They sent a chaplain to talk to me. Their voices kind of kept getting softer and softer. Everyone knew what was coming. I was up most nights and sleeping some in the day. My body wore down. I started coughing, and they told me I didn’t have a choice. They said I needed to go home and quarantine.

I walked circles in the house. I’m 62, fairly healthy but not indestructible, and now I’m worrying about Birdie but also about my own mortality. Pretty soon the hospital started calling me to ask about unplugging her. They said her kidneys were shutting down. That it was my decision. I told them: “How can I turn her off without looking at her? I can’t take your word on this. She might be doing jumping jacks for all I know. I need to see her.” That’s when they started talking about setting up a video call, so they could take her off some of the meds and I could say some kind of goodbye.

I’m not a techie. Birdie liked to tease me about that. When I got with her six years ago, I still had a flip phone. She liked going on Facebook, and it kind of pissed me off when she was on her phone all the time. The only friends I have are ones I can see and touch. But now I’m talking on the phone for hours with some nice lady from hospital IT, who’s telling me how to download some kind of app. She asked if I had an iPhone, but I don’t. I found one of Birdie’s old ones, but I didn’t have the password. So now I’m getting frustrated, trying to get this video chat to work on my old Android. The lady said my phone needed to be charged to 50 percent for the video to work, but my phone hasn’t seen 50 percent in two years. It only charges if it’s turned off, so I started turning it off and back on every few hours to check if anyone had been calling about Birdie. And it’s like, you know what, is this really what I should be doing right now? Is this really how I’m supposed to tell her goodbye? Finally the phone gets to 50 and dies out of nowhere. Fifty again but I need some kind of password. I said to hell with it. This isn’t going to work.

The doctor called the next morning. Birdie died at 10:20. So I didn’t have to unplug her, and I didn’t get to see her.

They held a press conference since she was the first to die in Indiana. They said we got to say goodbye over video. I guess it’s a nicer story. I don’t really blame them. I’d like to find a way to sugarcoat this thing, too, but I can’t. Anything good I could say about this would be a lie.

They told me to isolate and stay home for 14 days from the last time I saw her. I’m kind of losing track of how many it’s been. I have some depression issues, and it would be real easy for me to go to bed and pull the covers up over my head. I could bury myself in this thing and let my mind keep running loops. I’m staring at her clothes in the closet. Her curling iron is on the bathroom sink. Her car’s out front that we owe money on. I have no idea what I’m going to do. I don’t know what bills are paid up and what aren’t. She handled most of that. She looked after me in some ways like she cared for everybody, whether she knew you or not. That was always her nature. Anyway. Yesterday afternoon, they cut the power off, but I figured out how to get it back on.

I haven’t eaten much, and it’s probably making me weak. I’m bone tired and coughing like crazy. They called me back to the hospital for a chest X-ray, but the doctors said I looked good. No fever. No trouble breathing. They decided not to even give me a test. They have 12 nurses quarantined over there now and a whole floor of people with the virus, but I got lucky. They told me I’ll be fine."

 

 

Edited by coastal.view
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11 minutes ago, gurn said:

Warning:

This story will leave you crying.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/anything-good-i-could-say-about-this-would-be-a-lie/ar-BB11QoWz?ocid=spartandhp

"

She’s dead, and I’m quarantined. That’s how the story ends. I keep going back over it in loops, trying to find a way to sweeten it, but nothing changes the facts. I wasn’t there with her at the end. I didn’t get to say goodbye. I don’t even know where her body is right now, or if the only thing that’s left is her ashes.

From normal life to this hell in a week. That’s how long it took. How am I supposed to make any sense of that? It’s loops and more loops.

An oral history of covid-19. First in a series.

She transported cars for a rental company. That’s where all this must have come from. People fly in from somewhere for a meeting and fly out a few hours later. You’ve got germs from all over the world inside those cars. I didn’t like the fact that she was working so hard, 69 years old and still climbing in and out of Ford Fusions all day, driving from Indianapolis to St. Louis and back with bad knees, bad hips, diabetes, and all the rest of it. Sometimes, she hurt so much after work I had to help her out of the car. I guess I should have told her to quit, but nobody told Birdie anything. She liked to drive, and we needed the money.

I think she’d been feeling bad for a few days, but I don’t remember much about what happened early on. She wasn’t a complainer, and I’m not always the best at noticing. There was a cough somewhere in there. Probably a touch of a fever. But this was a few weeks back, when those things didn’t mean so much. I thought she had a cold, or maybe bronchitis. She would get that sometimes, lose her voice and be fine a few days later, no big deal. But then she woke me up at about 4 in the morning and kept pointing to her throat. She said she couldn’t sleep. Said her eyes hurt. Said it felt like somebody was pounding on top of her head. Birdie’s usually one of those who wants to rub some dirt on it and keep moving, so when she told me to take her to the emergency room, I knew it was serious. I knew she was sick.

Advertisement

First it was a fever of 103. Then the doctors decided it was pneumonia and went ahead and admitted her. Then it was pneumonia in both of her lungs. If anybody was thinking it was the coronavirus, I didn’t hear it — at least not at first. Nobody in Indiana had it yet. Even if it was killing people in Washington state and starting to infect people in New York, it was basically happening on TV.

The best precautions weren’t taken in the early stages. A few nurses wore gloves or masks when they came to see Birdie, but that seemed normal for treating pneumonia. I didn’t wear anything, and nobody really asked me to. I was lying next to her in the bed or sitting in a chair and holding her hand. She didn’t have much other family, and if I got up to go out into the hallway for a few minutes, I’d kiss her goodbye.

Would it have gone any different if they knew what it was? Maybe. Or maybe they would have quarantined her right then, and I would have lost a few more days with her.

See, I could analyze this to death. I’ll be doing this for the rest of my life.

a man wearing a suit and tie smiling and looking at the camera: Tony Sizemore, whose partner was the first person known to have died of covid-19 in Indiana. (Chris Bergin for The Washington Post) © Chris Bergin/For The Washington Post Tony Sizemore, whose partner was the first person known to have died of covid-19 in Indiana. (Chris Bergin for The Washington Post)

It was hard for me to sit there. I’m almost ashamed to say that, but it’s true. She was in the bed, and I was usually a few feet away in the recliner. It was two or three days in that room, but each one felt like a year. I’m not a natural caretaker, and never claimed to be, but it seemed like no matter what I tried, I couldn’t help her. It was just watch, wait, touch her forehead, apologize. I couldn’t do anything. Nobody could.

She was taking so much oxygen, but it was never enough. She had two little tubes put in her nose, and she couldn’t get enough air. They put a big mask on her face to get her oxygen back up, and that made her claustrophobic and panicky. She got real freaked out. I tried to count breaths with her. I kept saying: “Easy. Easy. In, out. In, out.” I couldn’t distract her because she was so deep in her head with panic. It labored her to talk. It labored her to breathe. I said, “Don’t talk then, honey. Save your energy.” There was a TV in there, but neither of us could focus on it. I sat in the quiet with her, for whatever comfort that might have brought her. I don’t know. I listened to her breathing. I watched her. When she was asleep she was taking these real quick, short breaths, like she was gulping air more than breathing it. When she was awake, she was kind of mumbling to herself. Maybe it was the medication they were giving her. I hope to God it was the medication. She was talking about how her eyes hurt, her insides hurt. She would clutch her fists and hit the bed and stuff, and you don’t really know how to help somebody in that frame. I mean, when she’s just clutching her fists and moaning and — I don’t know. I don’t know what I could have done. I sat there for as long as I could and then I got up every few hours to pace the hallway, or I’d drive eight minutes home to feed the dogs. I was starting to go a little crazy myself. I couldn’t keep sitting there, feeling helpless, listening to her breathe.

It was an awful time. I should be thankful she’s not suffering anymore, but she did suffer some.

It got worse. Her breaths got raspy. Shorter. They put her on life support. They rolled her across the hall one afternoon and tested her for the virus. At some point in there, I went home after midnight to check on the dogs, and when I came back early the next morning there was a sign that said “No Visitors” taped to the door of the hallway that led to her room. The whole thing became confusing to me. They said I couldn’t go in. They said nobody could. I sat in the waiting room for hours. I peeked through the window down the hallway once and saw them moving her to a different room. It looked like she was sleeping with the tube down her throat. The doctor said she was heavily sedated to stay comfortable. I’d like to believe that, but I don’t know if she was comfortable or not.

When they said the test was positive, that’s when I started thinking this virus was a death sentence for her. She had every underlying condition it attacks. Damaged lungs. High blood pressure. Her body wasn’t strong enough. She was lying there waiting to die.

The doctors told me to go home, but I didn’t. Most of the time I sat by the elevators in the waiting room. Nobody else was in there. Sometimes one of Birdie’s friends would come sit with me. The doctors kept saying, “No change.” “No change.” It had been five days now since she’d woken me up pointing at her throat. They sent a chaplain to talk to me. Their voices kind of kept getting softer and softer. Everyone knew what was coming. I was up most nights and sleeping some in the day. My body wore down. I started coughing, and they told me I didn’t have a choice. They said I needed to go home and quarantine.

I walked circles in the house. I’m 62, fairly healthy but not indestructible, and now I’m worrying about Birdie but also about my own mortality. Pretty soon the hospital started calling me to ask about unplugging her. They said her kidneys were shutting down. That it was my decision. I told them: “How can I turn her off without looking at her? I can’t take your word on this. She might be doing jumping jacks for all I know. I need to see her.” That’s when they started talking about setting up a video call, so they could take her off some of the meds and I could say some kind of goodbye.

I’m not a techie. Birdie liked to tease me about that. When I got with her six years ago, I still had a flip phone. She liked going on Facebook, and it kind of pissed me off when she was on her phone all the time. The only friends I have are ones I can see and touch. But now I’m talking on the phone for hours with some nice lady from hospital IT, who’s telling me how to download some kind of app. She asked if I had an iPhone, but I don’t. I found one of Birdie’s old ones, but I didn’t have the password. So now I’m getting frustrated, trying to get this video chat to work on my old Android. The lady said my phone needed to be charged to 50 percent for the video to work, but my phone hasn’t seen 50 percent in two years. It only charges if it’s turned off, so I started turning it off and back on every few hours to check if anyone had been calling about Birdie. And it’s like, you know what, is this really what I should be doing right now? Is this really how I’m supposed to tell her goodbye? Finally the phone gets to 50 and dies out of nowhere. Fifty again but I need some kind of password. I said to hell with it. This isn’t going to work.

The doctor called the next morning. Birdie died at 10:20. So I didn’t have to unplug her, and I didn’t get to see her.

They held a press conference since she was the first to die in Indiana. They said we got to say goodbye over video. I guess it’s a nicer story. I don’t really blame them. I’d like to find a way to sugarcoat this thing, too, but I can’t. Anything good I could say about this would be a lie.

They told me to isolate and stay home for 14 days from the last time I saw her. I’m kind of losing track of how many it’s been. I have some depression issues, and it would be real easy for me to go to bed and pull the covers up over my head. I could bury myself in this thing and let my mind keep running loops. I’m staring at her clothes in the closet. Her curling iron is on the bathroom sink. Her car’s out front that we owe money on. I have no idea what I’m going to do. I don’t know what bills are paid up and what aren’t. She handled most of that. She looked after me in some ways like she cared for everybody, whether she knew you or not. That was always her nature. Anyway. Yesterday afternoon, they cut the power off, but I figured out how to get it back on.

I haven’t eaten much, and it’s probably making me weak. I’m bone tired and coughing like crazy. They called me back to the hospital for a chest X-ray, but the doctors said I looked good. No fever. No trouble breathing. They decided not to even give me a test. They have 12 nurses quarantined over there now and a whole floor of people with the virus, but I got lucky. They told me I’ll be fine."

Oh man. :sadno:

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3 hours ago, gurn said:

Getting  very worried about our southern neighbours, the mortality rate is trending upwards over the last few days.

116,448 cases, 1943 deaths    1.668%.   Was hovering around 1.1 and 1.2

I was actually thinking about this with their rate of growth over the last few days. I understand we have a essential trade between the two countries but I wonder if it might be a good idea for Canada to do better screening at the border for the coronavirus symptoms to truck drivers and other workers coming from the United States.

Edited by Ryan Strome
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