Coronavirus outbreak

[RUPERTKBD]

10 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I think the reason why the US banned those Chinese flights earlier might have been partially due to "competition". I at least can't help but think there had to be ulterior motives to that but I could be mistaken and it could be my own bias coming into play. There were so many rascist Chinese comments coming out of Fox News at the time though. It was rather sickening (no pun intended).

FWIW, I think the US banned Chinese flights to defend against the Coronavirus, but as with much of their "strategy", it was a flawed line of reasoning.

 

During the course of the development of this pandemic, we've see over and over, examples that demonstrate travel bans are inefficient methods of combating the spread of the virus. The far more effective strategy is that of social distancing and isolation of the symptomatic.

 

While Trump was quick to institute the former, he was woefully slow in acknowledging the necessity of the latter. Trudeau, OTOH, did exactly the opposite.

 

So, one can try and equate the actions of both men, but the reality is their reactions were far from "equal".

[stawns]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Maybe... but a dictatorship can shut things down substantially more quickly and more effectively than a democratic nation. 

The fact that China is shipping vast amounts of PPE out of their country and starting to get things back online tells me that their numbers may not be as bad as the western world is making them out to be.  We're just used to how slow things happen over here vs how quickly they can happen in China. 

Remember, they constructed multiple temporary hospitals in mere days to battle this thing.  They also mass produce equipment faster than any other nation on Earth.

let's slow our roll on china re-emerging.  Give it 3-4 weeks and see if their numbers come back up.  That will tell us an awful lot about what we can expect..........if they actually give us any substantial, real info at all.

[coastal.view]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Maybe... but a dictatorship can shut things down substantially more quickly and more effectively than a democratic nation. 

The fact that China is shipping vast amounts of PPE out of their country and starting to get things back online tells me that their numbers may not be as bad as the western world is making them out to be.  We're just used to how slow things happen over here vs how quickly they can happen in China. 

Remember, they constructed multiple temporary hospitals in mere days to battle this thing.  They also mass produce equipment faster than any other nation on Earth.

well said

 

and really those are the 2 competing narratives right now

 

did the draconian approach work ?

 

is/has the authoritarian state really spouting misinformation about the situation in china?

[RUPERTKBD]

2 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

yes. I 'love' how they were exploding then halted after a few weeks and now they're at virtually zero new cases. Convenient! 

While I'm pretty sure that the numbers coming out of China are false, I think it behooves us to remember that this is a country that built a hospital in a week, to help fight this virus.

 

Honestly, I think the truth likely falls somewhere in between the two extremes.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Just now, RUPERTKBD said:

While I'm pretty sure that the numbers coming out of China are false, I think it behooves us to remember that this is a country that built a hospital in a week, to help fight this virus.

 

Honestly, I think the truth likely falls somewhere in between the two extremes.

The power of authoritarianism. It's great for getting $&!# done. Meanwhile here if we want to get anything done effectively it takes a couple weeks - if it gets done at all. 

[The Lock]

Just now, Heretic said:

Yet, people are saying Trump has been downplaying for 2 months - that takes us back to January as well.

 

Look, for Pete's sake, I'm NOT defending Trump, I think he's an idiot too - I just hate seeing people hate one person more than another when all are to blame.

 

Just look at what some here post time and time again against me - only because I offer a different view.

 

It doesn't really bother me - but it proves my point - even those that blindly follow and make a derogatory like because of what someone else replied back to me.

 

I don't expect everyone to get it.  But most, (like you) have some intelligence.

I don't think it's so much a matter of a different view, but I will say if you call out people for "being hypocrites", that doesn't help either, especially when I see the exact same things happening on the other end. It seems to be the latest CDC craze: to call others hypocrites. I'm just saying to think about how you're coming across with that. That's all. Everyone is a hypocrite to an extend: everyone in this world. Why? Because we're all human.

 

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with having a different opinion, just expect people to challenge it as much as you are challenging them with your opinion.

[Down by the River]

2 minutes ago, Heretic said:

Yet, people are saying Trump has been downplaying for 2 months - that takes us back to January as well.

 

Look, for Pete's sake, I'm NOT defending Trump, I think he's an idiot too - I just hate seeing people hate one person more than another when all are to blame.

 

Just look at what some here post time and time again against me - only because I offer a different view.

 

It doesn't really bother me - but it proves my point - even those that blindly follow and make a derogatory like because of what someone else replied back to me.

 

I don't expect everyone to get it.  But most, (like you) have some intelligence.

You are mistaking offering a different view with offering a wrong view. There aren't always two sides to a story. Not all are of equal blame. Accordingly, you will see more attention given to those that are more culpable. 

 

You're not providing some introspection into something that everyone else in the thread overlooked. 

[Chicken.]

4 minutes ago, The Lock said:

I think the reason why the US banned those Chinese flights earlier might have been partially due to "competition". I at least can't help but think there had to be ulterior motives to that but I could be mistaken and it could be my own bias coming into play. There were so many rascist Chinese comments coming out of Fox News at the time though. It was rather sickening (no pun intended).

I think there needs to be a clear distinction between racism and vilifying the CCP regime. From my view people criticizing China or the Chinese are pointing towards the government and not the Chinese populace themselves.. which clearly have no control over their countries actions. 

 

And the reason for the flight bans can be debated, but in hindsight it appears to have been the correct move. 

 

I am sure there have been incidents targeting Chinese Americans and the like which is a shame there are losers out there that will do that but the responsibility therein lies with the Chinese communist party and perhaps the WHO that has been useless imo... 

[RUPERTKBD]

9 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

The power of authoritarianism. It's great for getting $&!# done. Meanwhile here if we want to get anything done effectively it takes a couple weeks - if it gets done at all. 

Yep. those dictators get all the breaks....

 

....it's why Bone Spurs is so jelly....

Edited March 30, 2020 by RUPERTKBD

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

FWIW, I think the US banned Chinese flights to defend against the Coronavirus, but as with much of their "strategy", it was a flawed line of reasoning.

 

During the course of the development of this pandemic, we've see over and over, examples that demonstrate travel bans are inefficient methods of combating the spread of the virus. The far more effective strategy is that of social distancing and isolation of the symptomatic.

 

While Trump was quick to institute the former, he was woefully slow in acknowledging the necessity of the latter. Trudeau, OTOH, did exactly the opposite.

 

So, one can try and equate the actions of both men, but the reality is their reactions were far from "equal".

Can't argue with this. I see what you are saying, and in no way do I think Trudeau has been perfect, but who ever is? Therefore, it's a matter of who's done the better job as a whole. Also, you can completely mess things up (like what we're seeing with Trump).

[Me_]

18 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

But, somehow this can be construed as a world leader doing a good job for his people. 

Wait until the Billy-Janes die of pneumonia see what the Clydes do with their guns.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

And the reason for the flight bans can be debated, but in hindsight it appears to have been the correct move. 

 

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

I think there needs to be a clear distinction between racism and vilifying the CCP regime. From my view people criticizing China or the Chinese are pointing towards the government and not the Chinese populace themselves.. which clearly have no control over their countries actions. 

 

And the reason for the flight bans can be debated, but in hindsight it appears to have been the correct move. 

 

I am sure there have been incidents targeting Chinese Americans and the like which is a shame there are losers out there that will do that but the responsibility therein lies with the Chinese communist party and perhaps the WHO that has been useless imo... 

Definitely there's a different between government and people. I'd even argue that politics is almost always about government interactions and it almost never reflects the people.

 

But that's also the problem because then the propaganda machine comes out making people believe what the government wants them to believe.

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, coastal.view said:

i'm not sure i buy this

unless you attach some intention or plan to the virus infection originating in china

and then spreading globally

that does not seem to be what happened

 

what does seem to have happened

is this virus originated in a wuhan open market

and once is became noticed in the local population

chinese authorities tried to contain information about this problem

and maintain a position of denial

 

they also then turned to a position of containment of the virus

but that pivot was too late as the virus already got out

despite this china persisted on the path of containment

and appeared to actually achieve this outcome in a small geographic area of the country

 

so world ended up dealing with the virus going through their populations

and china has not .. except for a small sector of their country

 

and i'm curious about their plan

to deal with this situation, that almost their entire population is still vulnerable to the virus

i can only see waiting for an effective vaccine as their option

I think you may have misunderstood me.

 

My statement was that, China has been ramping up production and their economic endeavours for the last 2-3 weeks.  Effectively telling everyone it's ok, all good and business as usual.  Whereas the rest of the known world is floundering and suffering from this virus as it shatters homes, health and economy.  Numerous experts have come out questioning China's response and honestly about this.  Knowing a second wave is not just likely but a certainty.

 

There are or were videos of China welding doors shut on tenements the same day they were telling the world that all is well cases are dropping.  Remembering that the WHO goes by what nations tell them are reported cases/fatalities etc as they cannot be on the ground conducting these studies themselves.

 

I am not suggesting this was a man made event, nor am I suggesting it is or was intentional.  What I am suggesting is that China IS in fact being disingenuous with their numbers and that by all reports are apparently going back to work in an effort to stave off economic ruin.  Which would in effect propel them towards supremacy on the world stage.

 

35 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

usa confirmed cases will double china today

they likely to project to be over 500,000 confirmed cases

by the end of this week

it appears their rate of increase of infection is still increasing

That is the mathematical projection yes.

 

It's genuinely frightening

[Chicken.]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Definitely there's a different between government and people. I'd even argue that politics is almost always about government interactions and it almost never reflects the people.

 

But that's also the problem because then the propaganda machine comes out making people believe what the government wants them to believe.

Yeah. It can really take your mind for a loop trying to connect all the dots in this insane geopolitical climate. All we the people can do is hope for the best and control our own actions to follow government guidelines. 

 

Makes for a good way to pass the time though.. 

 

 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Chicken. said:

Yeah. It can really take your mind for a loop trying to connect all the dots in this insane geopolitical climate. All we the people can do is hope for the best and control our own actions to follow government guidelines. 

 

Makes for a good way to pass the time though.. 

I have friends in the US and the stress down there... I can only imagine how much more stressful things must be for them right now. Not to downgrade people's stress up here, but imagine if BC was the hotspot right now.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

 

Bone Spurs:  Massage my ego & you'll get ventilators.

[Warhippy]

Regarding Trump and the White House during this crisis.  These are the statements of his spokesperson and Trump himself.  She states that there has been meetings since Jan 12th regarding Covid-19 

 

Shameful.  There is NO comparison to how Canada is handling this compared to the US.  At all

 

 

[DeNiro]

35 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Maybe... but a dictatorship can shut things down substantially more quickly and more effectively than a democratic nation. 

 

The fact that China is shipping vast amounts of PPE out of their country and starting to get things back online tells me that their numbers may not be as bad as the western world is making them out to be.  We're just used to how slow things happen over here vs how quickly they can happen in China. 

 

Remember, they constructed multiple temporary hospitals in mere days to battle this thing.  They also mass produce equipment faster than any other nation on Earth.

 

Just because USA and Italy (and others) are struggling more than China doesn't necessarily mean China doesn't (or didn't) have this thing under control way faster than we expected.  South Korea is another example.  Nobody is calling them out for getting things under control.  Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. 

 

Perhaps.

 

Or perhaps they’ve given up on testing in poor villages and are simply letting this thing run its course while focusing on keeping manufacturing zones virus free areas.

If you believe the reports about urns being delivered by the thousands, that would indicate the latter.

 

[The Lock]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Perhaps.

 

Or perhaps they’ve given up on testing in poor villages and are simply letting this thing run its course while focusing on keeping manufacturing zones virus free areas.

If you believe the reports about urns being delivered by the thousands, that would indicate the latter.

 

True. If they stop testing people in an area then there's no more 'confirmed cases' as well.