Patel Bure Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, Arrow 1983 said: From last season's playoffs to the first 9 games this season is Motte becoming a top 6 forward??? Lets look at it, 5 goals in the first 9 games If Pearson is a top 6 forward is Motte not better Motte's Determination resembles Horvats, actually I go as far as saying Motte is to our winger's as Horvat is to our centers And most importantly wouldn't a line of Motte Horvat and Hoglander look pretty good All in all IMHO it is time to promote Motte and demote Pearson. Pearson might work better against weaker competition It’s tough to really say if Motte is becoming a legit top 6 forward. I’m inclined to say “no,” but I said the same thing about Burrows back in 2008. I make the Burrows comparison because Motte, like Burrows, is a hard worker and very cerebral. While I love what Motte does for us on the bottom 6, I’d be willing to give him a couple of periods with Miller and Pettersson to see what he can do with them. Miller-Pettersson-Motte Pearson-Horvat-Boeser Roussel-Sutter-MacEwen Hoglander-Gaudette-Virtanen If Motte can kill it on the top 6, then it gives us more depth by default. I’m not sure if the Motte experiment would work but like I said.....that’s what I said about Burrows 13 years ago. Although I would likely just keep Motte on the bottom 6 and have him contribute down there with Sutter, I’d give Motte a few looks with Miller and Pettersson to reward him and to see what he can do up there. Edited January 28, 2021 by DarkIndianRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I've been saying since last season that Motte is playing his way into a protection spot for expansion. Many believed we'd only be losing a "4th liner" and that would count as a win, which I would agree with, however I think he's more than just a "4th liner" to this team. He is currently playing 16+ minutes a night (12+ even strength), which puts him in top 6 minutes on the team despite not being "in the top 6". He's scored 5 goals in 9 games. Whatever we are doing with him, it's working and I don't see why we would need to adjust the lineup. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 13 hours ago, -AJ- said: But does moving Motte up to the top six fix that problem? We have a top 6 problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 9 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said: He scored those 5 goals playing 16:36 a night. I think he's fine where he's at. He's a vital bottom 6 piece for us. Many of those minutes on the PK as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said: It’s tough to really say if Motte is becoming a legit top 6 forward. I’m inclined to say “no,” but I said the same thing about Burrows back in 2008. I make the Burrows comparison because Motte, like Burrows, is a hard worker and very cerebral. While I love what Motte does for us on the bottom 6, I’d be willing to give him a couple of periods with Miller and Pettersson to see what he can do with them. Miller-Pettersson-Motte Pearson-Horvat-Boeser Roussel-Sutter-MacEwen Hoglander-Gaudette-Virtanen If Motte can kill it on the top 6, then it gives us more depth by default. I’m not sure if the Motte experiment would work but like I said.....that’s what I said about Burrows 13 years ago. Although I would likely just keep Motte on the bottom 6 and have him contribute down there with Sutter, I’d give Motte a few looks with Miller and Pettersson to reward him and to see what he can do up there. I feel really bad for Hoglander getting kicked out of your lineup while he is right near the top of rookie scoring... poor kid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I voted no, because I think Motte is the perfect, 3rd line energy guy. He has the ability to shift the flow of a game with his energy, and I could see giving him a shot on second unit powerplay. Have always thought that he has better hands than a lot of people believed, I think he's really showing what he's capable of. Hope we keep him for a long time, last year, we had a much better winning percentage when he wasn't out with injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 34 minutes ago, Provost said: I feel really bad for Hoglander getting kicked out of your lineup while he is right near the top of rookie scoring... poor kid. It's Pearson that needs to be looking behind his back for sure ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, BCNate said: Many of those minutes on the PK as well. Still 12+ minutes even strength which puts him at 6th place amongst forwards on our team. Roughly equal to Hoglander currently for even strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I remember when just about everyone besides me and @oldnews were shocked and dismayed that Benning didn't get a low percentage, mid round pick instead of this all motor, spark plug with a track record of production at lower levels 'scrub' The usual CDC masochistic lamenting was delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Provost said: I feel really bad for Hoglander getting kicked out of your lineup while he is right near the top of rookie scoring... poor kid. it's Beagle he's taken out of his lineup - in favour of a 'kid' 4th line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amebushi Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 While I love what I see from Motte I don’t know that he belongs in the top 6. I see this as a different issue. Our second line is always given matchup duties because our third and fourth lines can’t contain people like McDavid but Bo can. Motte would fit fine on Bo’s wing as it is, but preferably we find a true 3rd line Center (think prime malhotra) and Motte would be even better. He is scoring because the competition he is facing is lower due to Bobtaking the hard minutes. I think if you moved him up he would keep checking but the scoring would dry up against better dmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) I honestly couldn't care less. "Top 6" / "bottom 6" / "top 4"/ "3rd pairing" are increasingly meaningless terms in the present NHL. The reality is that the young highly talented players - as expected - are not really close to ready to winning the "possession" game at the NHL level. So you need a 'bottom 6' that can generate 'territory' - or you're getting killed at the 'top' and 'bottom' ends of your lineup. Miller was an epic - and as perfect as they come acquisition to fit with this group, so the principal matter was 'solved' imo when they pulled that off. I'll get to Horvat's line later. Why would you want to take a player with results like this: 30.4% ozone starts (only Beagle is lower) 50.0% corsi (6th on the team) 5 goals (tied for 1st), 5pts (5th). +3 (2nd best on the team). 34 hits - leads the team by a large margin 3.9 on ice goals for per 60, 2.2 against +1.7 on ice goals per 60 is 3rd best on the team (Virtanen 3.1/0.6 = +2.5, Beagle 4.8/2.7 = +2.1) That incredibly valuable when your bottom six generates outcomes like that. And further - it takes a ton of pressure off the young players. The idea of moving Motte into the top 6 only makes sense if 1) the top 6 is broken or 2) you are deadset determined to 'reward' him. I'm pretty sure that a coach like Green makes it patently clear to everyone that a player's 'value' is not dictated by semantics ("top 6") or misleading 'rank'. The team needs Motte right where he is - more than they need to take away one of the huge advantages he provides - the ability to turn pucks in the dzone into possession (and faceoffs) in the ozone. The exception to that - the one idea in this thread that I agree with - is that he could make sense on Horvat's wing - when Horvat is drawn into principally shutdown/matchup duty. For me that is the worst case scenario for Horvat's line - and is typically dictated by injuries to other centers - and the need to shelter a line centered by Gaudette, at the same time as tiliting the ice for EP's line... Leave Sutter and Beagle centering the "bottom six" lines - and Horvat's is freed to play in more opportune circumstances - and leave that line as it is. Additionally - Hoglander is a very adept without the puck - a good young defensive forward for his 'stage' of development, and Pearson is a capable secondary penalty killer - so Horvat's line in matchup is not without capable defensive wingers. "If it aint broke, don't 'fix' it." Edited January 28, 2021 by oldnews 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmylu1 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Is Motte a top six?, or is he the bottom six player the rest of all our bottom six need to look up too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokes Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Who from the top six would you move down for Motte? The only person I can think of is Hoglander and he's actually been really good on the second line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, smokes said: Who from the top six would you move down for Motte? The only person I can think of is Hoglander and he's actually been really good on the second line. Pearson, gets moved down for a few games. If Motte fits and plays well, Pearson can be trade bait before the deadline; he is a UFA at the end of this season anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patel Bure Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Provost said: I feel really bad for Hoglander getting kicked out of your lineup while he is right near the top of rookie scoring... poor kid. Beagle, not Hoglander, would become the 13th man in my scenario. Hoglander would still be in my line-up. I have him listed on my 4th line in the line-up that I proposed, but those bottom 6 lines are quite interchangeable. If you look closely, it’s not like I have Hoglander out there with Beagle and Sutter. I’d put Hoglander with Gaudette and Virtanen and have them be a consistent bottom scoring threat. Or Hoglander with Gaudette and MacEwen. Trust me, I love Hoglander. Hoglander on our bottom 6 would give us depth by default if Motte can hang on the top 6. That was the point that I was trying to make. Hope this helps! Edited January 28, 2021 by DarkIndianRises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 hour ago, gurn said: Pearson, gets moved down for a few games. If Motte fits and plays well, Pearson can be trade bait before the deadline; he is a UFA at the end of this season anyway. I don't want to get on Pearson's case - I find him solid overall, even if spotty/inconsistent - but I was looking at that line last night and wondering what it'll look like if they manage to keep the 'heaviness' but add some speed and playmaking - it could be bloody dynamic. Horvat has scored some pp goals and been dominant in the faceoff circle thus far this season, but I'm finding him and Pearson a bit 'flat' at 5on5. Not the worst time to be expiring - I think as the young 'bottom six' guys develop, those two lines get more and more solid in shutdown - and EP/Boeser continue to develop...should take more weight off Horvat. I'm probably one of the minority that would re-sign Sutter if the price is reasonable. If Motte were to move up - Horvat's line would still be bloody hard to play against, but quicker on the wings. If Podkolzin takes that spot - they have a young two way powerforward there. Hard to see where Pearson fits moving forward - part of the reason I proposed moving him this offseason, because he might have been as moveable cap as there was (while still being palatable), and 'replaceable' in due course. If Pearson and Roussel could be moved, I'd probably take those chances. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 When I see Mottes name I think of Ernie "Punch" McLean who used to say. Every hockey game consists of a 1000 short races, the team that wins the most races wins the game. That's Motte, he never gives the opposition time to look for a play before he's on them. Would he look better if moved up a line, maybe, but more than any thing I tend to think it would reduce the effectiveness of the lower line with Pearson on it. Maybe Pearson is on a limited time, he's a UFA come the end of this season ... so who knows maybe he gets moved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nave Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I don't look at him as top 6, but he is our best bottom 6 forward. That trade was so worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I don't think Motte is a top six forward. His ceiling might be an elite third line player, who might be able to do spot duty on the top six if there were injuries. But I don't think he's got the skill to remain and play at an elite top six level. This sounds bad, but he might even be a better player than Virtanen with less of a toolbox. The man works hard, and he's hungry. If Virtanen would have even just some of that hunger and intensity from Motte. He'd be a beast. As it stands, he's a healthy scratch. Wonder if that'll light a fire under his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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