[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks @ Toronto Maple Laffs | February 8, 2021 | 4 p.m. PT | TVAS, SNP

[sassbs]

32 minutes ago, PositionOfPower said:

I hope aswell, but also we need someone who has the balls to bench scratch veterans for bad play. Not a pushover like Green who finally scratched Eriksson after trillion years

Remember toffoli first few games here, he was like a wrecking ball... didn’t take him long to form into the country club playing sissy’s  the coaches made this team into 

[Tom Sestito]

12 minutes ago, luckylager said:

He's our enforcer on HF.

 

Break their heads, tito. 

I can't break my own guys who took me in when the hammer came down on me here. 

 

 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Is that a banana in your hand?

[alt kilgore]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm overdramatizing your drama?

 

You claimed that the kids are upset because this offseason's moves 'reduces their chances of winning a Cup in their career".

If the team that Benning had assembled was tracking towards such a good chance of winning a Cup - do you see the irony -and how fundamentally that undermines your story?

 

Can you see the glaring contradiction?

Benning sucks - fire Benning - on and on ad infinitum - and yet, three veterans that were part of a team that just beat Minnesota, the Stanley Cup Champions and went to 7 with Vegas in M.A.S.H. mode - a team that was build by that incompetent idiot.  The raised expectations here to the point you're talking about Championship chances.

 

This is the crux of the twitter story in Vancouver.

 

The irony for me - but there's absolutely nothing surprising about it - is that that playoff success is less important in this market than the opportunity to bitch about a few twilight zone weeks at the start of a bizarre covid season.  A herd-minded intent to qualify this compulsive confirmation bias - that Benning is allegedly an idiot - that becomes more important than both the long game - and the playoff results everyone here enjoyed months ago (as if there was some continuum leading straight up to the Cup.   If that were the case, the ironing about all the Benning hate would be that much more delicious.

 

 

 

Debating with you ON is as delicious as it gets.

 

You could at least quote me correctly.  It was that "they want to win a Cup at some point in their careers". Pretty close I guess. But thank you for agreeing somewhat.  Yes, Benning had assembled something that looked like it was tracking towards a chance at the Cup.  Players were feeling great. Toffoli was working out great, finally rounding out our top six. We still had a bonified #1 goalie, a shot blocking leader on D, a heart and soul Stech. And I was even looking forward to Leivo rejoining the team. He was playing very well when he went down.  Players can't think too much about the business, and just focus on the next game. They expect their GM to handle all that, and none of them expected he'd f it up this much. That's when all that irony is lost.

 

I and a few others dared to post in here that his plan, or non plan, was unsustainable, and he was headed for trouble. I saw mostly In-Benning-We-Trust threads then. Now you complain about anti Benning posts when he finally is reaping what he sowed? 

 

Like I said back then,  I am not wishing JB fails.  I can't. Because he's the GM of my favorite hockey team. I have to hang in there. I have a fan NTC.  From LE, to Brackett, to Tofolli, to this off season, and everything in between.  I've lost confidence in my team's GM, and I don't feel like playing as hard for him. But prove me wrong Jim....PROVE . ME . WRONG.

[lmm]

3 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

How is the coaching staff still employed?

 

4 years and we are last in the league in team d and close to the bottom in points 

 

the Canucks just accept a losing culture

 

maddening 

At this point I do not see the value in just getting rid of the coaches.

Don't get me wrong, I have never liked this group, but now firing the coaches makes as much sense as trading Jake Virtanen or Gaudette and expecting that to help.

Miller is floating, Huggy, Myers  and Pettersson are give away machines and Bo does something, I'm just not sure what, but lets trade Jake or Adam.

Jimmer has wasted 25% of our cap and employed substandard coaches since the say he arrived.

We don't even have a real President, with an identity or plan.

Jim sat by while AHL Willie embarrassed Sestito and Tryamkin, and let him coach an NHL team for 2 1/2 more years, ducked responsibility for Kassian, brought in Prust, bungled the Hamhius situation, brought in Miller and Schmidt, who seem to be leading this team down the garden path. But as bad as they are, they are not worse than LE who Jim has never critisized once and seems committed to let run out his bloated contract. .  LE is the elephant in the room, the locker room. Everyone knows that Toffoli and Tanev were not signed because Loui got their money, but Jim lets him hang around. Jim says he looks for character players, but he has not shown the character he says he is looking for.

 

But even if we swept house up to Jmmer I am not sure that we get rid of all our charcter flaws because Aqua presides over all of this.

 

edit: oops I almost forgot to answer your question. The coaching staff stays because Jim gets good "value" by letting them stay til the end of their contract.

What harm can it do?

Edited February 10, 2021 by lmm

[luckylager]

26 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

I can't break my own guys who took me in when the hammer came down on me here. 

 

 

Be that way man.

@DonaldBrashear, you're up.

[oldnews]

13 minutes ago, kilgore said:

 

Debating with you ON is as delicious as it gets.

 

You could at least quote me correctly.  It was that "they want to win a Cup at some point in their careers".

On 2/8/2021 at 8:48 PM, kilgore said:

  It was anger that JB reduced their chances of lifting the Cup in their careers, by a couple more years at least, in a very short career sport.  

 

 

 

[oldnews]

3 hours ago, Merely said:

Why do other Canucks boards hate us? I went to Hfboards to see how it is, I mention I’m from CDC, and they were extremely rude 

HF is a "safe space" for smarmy whiners - if they come here, they face counterpoints, differences of opinion.

If you don't hate your team, you won't fit in that echo chamber.

[TNucks1]

ugh, i really hope we sweep the flames.

[Toffolli]

JB trading for Toffoli by trading Madden, a second round pick and then not signing Toffoli mmmmmm

Brilliant!  This is what short sightedness looks like when a GM makes moves to save his arse. It will only get worse with JB, can't see it getting better,

He makes some good decisions, then ruins the momentum by making bad decisions.

 

Why did he do that (trade for Toffoli)? maybe to make the playoffs since Brock was injured and the team was tanking.

Covid hit and the league allowed 24 teams to playoff, which also played in JB's favour and saved his arse

 

SMH over JB not resigning TT. Not resigning TT is just as bad as not picking MT

 

 

[Tom Sestito]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

HF is a "safe space" for smarmy whiners - if they come here, they face counterpoints, differences of opinion.

If you don't hate your team, you won't fit in that echo chamber.

alright mr gudbranson better than tanev

[Coconuts]

19 minutes ago, Toffolli said:

JB trading for Toffoli by trading Madden, a second round pick and then not signing Toffoli mmmmmm

Brilliant!  This is what short sightedness looks like when a GM makes moves to save his arse. It will only get worse with JB, can't see it getting better,

He makes some good decisions, then ruins the momentum by making bad decisions.

 

Why did he do that (trade for Toffoli)? maybe to make the playoffs since Brock was injured and the team was tanking.

Covid hit and the league allowed 24 teams to playoff, which also played in JB's favour and saved his arse

 

SMH over JB not resigning TT. Not resigning TT is just as bad as not picking MT

 

 

This has been beaten to death, but sure, I'll bite. 

 

At the time of the trade the Covid reality hadn't hit and it was forecasted that the cap would be going up. We were in the thick of a playoff race and Boeser had gone down, Toffoli was brought in to help us gun for the playoffs. I understand dumping on JB and co is the thing to do nowadays, but short of having a functional crystal ball there was no way they could have known what was to come. Global pandemics don't come along and throw a massive wrench into the sporting world every year. 

 

Madden may never turn into something, he was talented but his size was always in question. A 2nd is a fair price for a proven top six player, prior to the deadline no less. 

 

At the end of the day we made the playoffs, and went on a run (mostly without Toffoli in the lineup no less). The goal at the beginning of the season was to make the playoffs, we did that. Petey and Hughes were a revelation and that playoff experience was arguably worth the price alone, next time we make it into the dance most of our key pieces will have been battle tested and know what to expect. Griping about the trade at this point is just dumb, the result was well worth the cost. Did we get a bit lucky getting into the playoffs? Sure, but we made it in and Toffoli contributed to that (albeit in a small sample size). 

 

Had the cap gone up as forecasted a lot of things would likely have gone different regarding who we kept and why. Toffoli's had a hot start, against us in particular, if he'd been even a bit more average we likely wouldn't be having this conversation at all. It's also worth noting that Toffoli hasn't done much for Montreal against any team that hasn't been us, that's more a reflection of where our group is than his scoring prowess against teams in the division. 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Is that a banana in your hand?

[GritGrinder]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

This has been beaten to death, but sure, I'll bite. 

 

At the time of the trade the Covid reality hadn't hit and it was forecasted that the cap would be going up. We were in the thick of a playoff race and Boeser had gone down, Toffoli was brought in to help us gun for the playoffs. I understand dumping on JB and co is the thing to do nowadays, but short of having a functional crystal ball there was no way they could have known what was to come. Global pandemics don't come along and throw a massive wrench into the sporting world every year. 

 

Madden may never turn into something, he was talented but his size was always in question. A 2nd is a fair price for a proven top six player, prior to the deadline no less. 

 

At the end of the day we made the playoffs, and went on a run (mostly without Toffoli in the lineup no less). The goal at the beginning of the season was to make the playoffs, we did that. Petey and Hughes were a revelation and that playoff experience was arguably worth the price alone, next time we make it into the dance most of our key pieces will have been battle tested and know what to expect. Griping about the trade at this point is just dumb, the result was well worth the cost. Did we get a bit lucky getting into the playoffs? Sure, but we made it in and Toffoli contributed to that (albeit in a small sample size). 

 

Had the cap gone up as forecasted a lot of things would likely have gone different regarding who we kept and why. Toffoli's had a hot start, against us in particular, if he'd been even a bit more average we likely wouldn't be having this conversation at all. It's also worth noting that Toffoli hasn't done much for Montreal against any team that hasn't been us, that's more a reflection of where our group is than his scoring prowess against teams in the division. 

 

 

So why aren’t the “key pieces” putting all that “battle testing” to work

right now? They don’t know what to expect now but they will in April/May of 2022 when they maybe make the playoffs again? If they really are “battle tested” then they wouldn’t be one of the worst teams in the league right now and it’s likely that they won’t even see the playoffs for 14+ months. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

So why aren’t the “key pieces” putting all that “battle testing” to work

right now? They don’t know what to expect now but they will in April/May of 2022 when they maybe make the playoffs again? If they really are “battle tested” then they wouldn’t be one of the worst teams in the league right now and it’s likely that they won’t even see the playoffs for 14+ months. 

It was always a possibility we'd be in the same position (missing the playoffs) with all three in the lineup too.   Didn't fair well with them last year against these teams, and quite a few made significant improvements - where as pundits figured  we stayed flat or even.    Nobody thought we'd be this bad, that's for sure - but double downing on 3 guys that age wasn't a step forward at all, a step to the side maybe for now , but gradually aging poorly (all three deals).   

 

TT was is a career middle sixer, not prime Ovi or something.   That seems to get lost on some folks - same does the fact he wasn't much of an impact for us the few games he did play during the playoffs - or that we'd never have gone there if BB was injured in the first place as we didn't have the cap space to do so.    What matters is we added Schmidt, found a suitable replacement for Markstrom to dangle in the ED or share the crease with him (although he's yet to play a great game for us) and that we avoided 8.5 million in cap over years 2-4 of those deals when it matters most (not to bring up yet again, how the heck would he pay for all of this without giving up something like Hogs, Podz and some picks plus lose Demko etc etc).    

 

Not saying we should keep JB or TG.   But am saying he made the tough decisions to keep the teams best chances and opportunity as open as possible.   Cleaning up his own messes?  Yes.   Would the mess be there if EP, QHs took an extra year?  Probably not.   TT, Tanev and Markstrom, why not put a pin on that and wait and see how it goes for a year at least, two for sure, to me at least it would have meant the "mushy middle".     Strange times - ED looming, zero gate playoff revenue.   If there ever was a time to add a blue chip player to the lineup via the draft it's this year from a business viewpoint, and definitely from a contending viewpoint.   Teams still holey ... rather have a holy crap! that's a great team wouldn't you? 

[canuck2288]

8 hours ago, lmm said:

At this point I do not see the value in just getting rid of the coaches.

Don't get me wrong, I have never liked this group, but now firing the coaches makes as much sense as trading Jake Virtanen or Gaudette and expecting that to help.

Miller is floating, Huggy, Myers  and Pettersson are give away machines and Bo does something, I'm just not sure what, but lets trade Jake or Adam.

Jimmer has wasted 25% of our cap and employed substandard coaches since the say he arrived.

We don't even have a real President, with an identity or plan.

Jim sat by while AHL Willie embarrassed Sestito and Tryamkin, and let him coach an NHL team for 2 1/2 more years, ducked responsibility for Kassian, brought in Prust, bungled the Hamhius situation, brought in Miller and Schmidt, who seem to be leading this team down the garden path. But as bad as they are, they are not worse than LE who Jim has never critisized once and seems committed to let run out his bloated contract. .  LE is the elephant in the room, the locker room. Everyone knows that Toffoli and Tanev were not signed because Loui got their money, but Jim lets him hang around. Jim says he looks for character players, but he has not shown the character he says he is looking for.

 

But even if we swept house up to Jmmer I am not sure that we get rid of all our charcter flaws because Aqua presides over all of this.

 

edit: oops I almost forgot to answer your question. The coaching staff stays because Jim gets good "value" by letting them stay til the end of their contract.

What harm can it do?

No doubt from a cost perspective, agree with you there

 

to me, the decision boils down to 1) bonus time for new coaches to work with team 2) grabbing Gallant before Seattle does 3) maybe going on a run under new staff 

 

if we truly think the roster won’t allow a run this year under new coaching then yes we may as well fire up the Green tank and lose for Hughes 

[GritGrinder]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

It was always a possibility we'd be in the same position (missing the playoffs) with all three in the lineup too.   Didn't fair well with them last year against these teams, and quite a few made significant improvements - where as pundits figured  we stayed flat or even.    Nobody thought we'd be this bad, that's for sure - but double downing on 3 guys that age wasn't a step forward at all, a step to the side maybe for now , but gradually aging poorly (all three deals).   

 

TT was is a career middle sixer, not prime Ovi or something.   That seems to get lost on some folks - same does the fact he wasn't much of an impact for us the few games he did play during the playoffs - or that we'd never have gone there if BB was injured in the first place as we didn't have the cap space to do so.    What matters is we added Schmidt, found a suitable replacement for Markstrom to dangle in the ED or share the crease with him (although he's yet to play a great game for us) and that we avoided 8.5 million in cap over years 2-4 of those deals when it matters most (not to bring up yet again, how the heck would he pay for all of this without giving up something like Hogs, Podz and some picks plus lose Demko etc etc).    

 

Not saying we should keep JB or TG.   But am saying he made the tough decisions to keep the teams best chances and opportunity as open as possible.   Cleaning up his own messes?  Yes.   Would the mess be there if EP, QHs took an extra year?  Probably not.   TT, Tanev and Markstrom, why not put a pin on that and wait and see how it goes for a year at least, two for sure, to me at least it would have meant the "mushy middle".     Strange times - ED looming, zero gate playoff revenue.   If there ever was a time to add a blue chip player to the lineup via the draft it's this year from a business viewpoint, and definitely from a contending viewpoint.   Teams still holey ... rather have a holy crap! that's a great team wouldn't you? 

Here's where that logic kind of has some holes in it.

 

Schmidt is only a year and a half younger than Tanev but is signed for an additional year. When Tanev's contract ends he'll be 34 yrs and 7 months old, when Schmidt's contract ends he's 2 weeks from turning 34. I know Tanev has missed significant time previously to injuries but Schmidt has also missed a large # of games (50+) to injury  the last few seasons. And lets not forget the $1.5m aav difference as well.

 

Markstrom just turned 31 and he hasn't exactly been a workhorse, only 125 total NHL appearances in his first 7 seasons. Most would say he is just entering his prime so him performing well until he's 36-37 isn't that crazy. JB could have either traded Demko (probably for a 1st or some high-end prospect) or could have made a deal with Seattle to ensure Demko wasn't taken and have him as Marky's back up for another couple of seasons and hope his trade value increases. Either way JB had a few different options here and basically took the easiest one.

 

Toffoli is only 28 and it was only a 4yr deal so I'm not sure his deal will be as "aging poorly" as you assume it will. Let JV walk and the extra $1.5m JB spent on Schmidt over Tanev makes up the difference to sign Toffoli. Again, there were options and JB took the easiest one.

 

JB not making enough "bold" moves will likely cost him his job, probably at the end of this season or sooner if things progress the way they are.

 

[CaptKirk888]

12 hours ago, PositionOfPower said:

U dumb? Trio meaning gaudette and virt and sutter

Thanks for the kind words. Obviously I misunderstood you. Have a nice day

[lmm]

1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

Here's where that logic kind of has some holes in it.

 

Schmidt is only a year and a half younger than Tanev but is signed for an additional year. When Tanev's contract ends he'll be 34 yrs and 7 months old, when Schmidt's contract ends he's 2 weeks from turning 34. I know Tanev has missed significant time previously to injuries but Schmidt has also missed a large # of games (50+) to injury  the last few seasons. And lets not forget the $1.5m aav difference as well.

 

Markstrom just turned 31 and he hasn't exactly been a workhorse, only 125 total NHL appearances in his first 7 seasons. Most would say he is just entering his prime so him performing well until he's 36-37 isn't that crazy. JB could have either traded Demko (probably for a 1st or some high-end prospect) or could have made a deal with Seattle to ensure Demko wasn't taken and have him as Marky's back up for another couple of seasons and hope his trade value increases. Either way JB had a few different options here and basically took the easiest one.

 

Toffoli is only 28 and it was only a 4yr deal so I'm not sure his deal will be as "aging poorly" as you assume it will. Let JV walk and the extra $1.5m JB spent on Schmidt over Tanev makes up the difference to sign Toffoli. Again, there were options and JB took the easiest one.

 

JB not making enough "bold" moves will likely cost him his job, probably at the end of this season or sooner if things progress the way they are.

 

A few days ago I thought maybe Green would get fired. BUt I realized that Jim will not make any decisions.

I think he is frozen by stress

I do not mean this in a disrespectful way, but maybe Jim will tell us one day how mental illness  (stress) affected his ability to run this team.

[bree2]

people need to get over this, fire Green, Fire Benning.  and whining about the players that have left. every team in the NHL changes players every year.   now that our team is back home and starting to get days off, i believe things will change and the team will start winning . you got to have faith.! as for Toffoli he only scored against us. he hasn't scored since!  anyways it gets tiring posting about  why those players left.  time to move on!!!