Popular Post J-23 Posted October 23, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted October 23, 2022 25 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: I still love OEL and Garland. I just return to see people being mad. People aren’t mad at OEL and Garland. They would rather just have Guenther + the cap space. 3 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 8 hours ago, dougieL said: Imagine what we'd have to PAY to get off the OEL contract. The fact that ARZ insisted on us adding a second round pick, and the fact that we paid it, still boggles my mind to this day. What a horrid trade this was in every respect. Its called the Benning premium. Slap on a 2nd round pick to almost everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DownUndaCanuck Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 41 minutes ago, J-23 said: People aren’t mad at OEL and Garland. They would rather just have Guenther + the cap space. If we were a winning team in a playoff hunt, I'd take OEL and Garland - a top 2 defenceman and top 6 winger. But we're still finding a way to suck despite "good" players in their prime, so now of course anyone would take the rebuild. At the time JB went for it because he thought we could be a winning team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-23 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 18 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: If we were a winning team in a playoff hunt, I'd take OEL and Garland - a top 2 defenceman and top 6 winger. But we're still finding a way to suck despite "good" players in their prime, so now of course anyone would take the rebuild. At the time JB went for it because he thought we could be a winning team. He thought we were a winning team but we weren’t. Have to be a proven and consistent playoff team before you make deals like that 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, J-23 said: People aren’t mad at OEL and Garland. They would rather just have Guenther + the cap space. And whoever we would have selected with that 2022 second round pick, but yes, this is pretty accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Durst Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) ahead of a trade of such a magnitude you have to take a moment and think about 1. cap implications 2. pieces that are already on the roster The blockbuster trade with the Arizona Coyotes didn't make any sense for Canucks. When you have a player like Quinn Hughes that plays on the PP and is eating lots of minutes on the left side there is absolutely no need to bring in a player like OEL. What Canucks desperately needed was a solid Top 4 stay at home D-Man who plays a physical game and kills penalties. Physical stay at home D-Man for the left side would have been fully sufficient. Benning and team should have known that re-signing Hughes would come at a high cap hit - beyond 7M $. From a cap perspective it makes zero sense to add another D-Man for the left side which comes at a cap hit north of 7M $. When you spend around 14 M $ for two D-Men on the left side you are lacking cap space to address other positions on the roster. To Garland: you get a goal scoring winger that brings similar qualities to the ice in free agency. Garland lacks 1. speed 2. size 3. physicality 4. can't kill penalties 5 can't play overtime due to his slowness. I labelled this trade as "worst trade in Canucks history" once the trade was announced. It turns out to be the right assessment. Edited October 23, 2022 by Wolfgang Durst 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV. Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 No surprise that I was downvoted for saying this was bad. Life of AV. Very funny to see people hype up Garland as some line-driving forward. Garland that year, Miller last year...Canucks fans love to think anomaly seasons are the norm. I'll be curious to see how Guenther gets on. Looks pretty good thus far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, AV. said: No surprise that I was downvoted for saying this was bad. Life of AV. Very funny to see people hype up Garland as some line-driving forward. Garland that year, Miller last year...Canucks fans love to think anomaly seasons are the norm. I'll be curious to see how Guenther gets on. Looks pretty good thus far. I'm not sure I'll be able to handle watching Guenther turn into a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Wolfgang Durst said: ahead of a trade of such a magnitude you have to take a moment and think about 1. cap implications 2. pieces that are already on the roster The blockbuster trade with the Arizona Coyotes didn't make any sense for Canucks. When you have a player like Quinn Hughes that plays on the PP and is eating lots of minutes on the left side there is absolutely no need to bring in a player like OEL. What Canucks desperately needed was a solid Top 4 stay at home D-Man who plays a physical game and kills penalties. Physical stay at home D-Man for the left side would have been fully sufficient. Benning and team should have known that re-signing Hughes would come at a high cap hit - beyond 7M $. From a cap perspective it makes zero sense to add another D-Man for the left side which comes at a cap hit north of 7M $. When you spend around 14 M $ for two D-Men on the left side you are lacking cap space to address other positions on the roster. To Garland: you get a goal scoring winger that brings similar qualities to the ice in free agency. Garland lacks 1. speed 2. size 3. physicality 4. can't kill penalties 5 can't play overtime due to his slowness. I labelled this trade as "worst trade in Canucks history" once the trade was announced. It turns out to be the right assessment. Definitely one of the worst, and considering the cap implications, I might have to agree. There's not one aspect of this trade that made any sense to me. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 9 minutes ago, dougieL said: I'm not sure I'll be able to handle watching Guenther turn into a good player. Geunther isn’t much. But the trade was horrible for us anyway. We were only one year away from the three cap dumps we sent coming off our books. Our owner’s “win now” philosophy worked during the Gillis era (clearly) but has been a complete disaster since. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, AV. said: No surprise that I was downvoted for saying this was bad. Life of AV. Very funny to see people hype up Garland as some line-driving forward. Garland that year, Miller last year...Canucks fans love to think anomaly seasons are the norm. I'll be curious to see how Guenther gets on. Looks pretty good thus far. There was a lot of Benning defending going on after this trade. We've all seen how it's played out. We know who was right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, awalk said: There was a lot of Benning defending going on after this trade. We've all seen how it's played out. We know who was right. Has it played out already? Didn't realize Dylan Guenther had already retired. I guess 4 games makes a career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 minute ago, coryberg said: Has it played out already? Didn't realize Dylan Guenther had already retired. I guess 4 games makes a career. He could literally get sent to the ECHL for the rest of his career and we still came out with a fat L on that trade 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flickyoursedin Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 15 hours ago, DanielCloutier said: tanev signed in calgary a full season before the OEL trade lol The OEL saga started that summer when Tanev left. It was that summer OEL said he wanted to be traded and only wanted to go to Vancouver or Boston. Then it seemed like that’s all Benning was trying to get done. Nothing eventually got done with OEL putting a trade deadline on a deal by training camp or something like that. Then played one more year in Arizona and they finally agreed on a deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 17 hours ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: Why don’t you marry Sportsnet! The station, and it's guest analyst' have been more accurate than this forum has in evaluating the team over the past 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 11 hours ago, J-23 said: People aren’t mad at OEL and Garland. They would rather just have Guenther + the cap space. Exactly. I've actually ended up liking OEL and Garland more than I thought I would. OEL has been much better defensively than I thought he was prior to the trade. But, I said at the time and will say again, I think we would have been better off running a no expectations year to then gain 12M in cap space (plus still have our 1st and 2nd round draft picks). I might have had a different opinion if LE, Roussel, and Beagle still had a few years left on their contracts, but they were all expiring the next summer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 4 hours ago, awalk said: He could literally get sent to the ECHL for the rest of his career and we still came out with a fat L on that trade Yep exactly. Guenther turning out well would just be salt in the wound at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 16 hours ago, aGENT said: The "problem" with OEL is that we have garbage around him and Hughes (understandably) gets all the prime offensive/PP minutes. In fact he did just that the few times we were without Hughes last year. He's an excellent, two way, first pair D when put in the position to be one. Actually build some proper partners for Hughes and him and we'd be laughing. But right now he's saddled with poor fitting/low quality partners, most of the harder matchups and we're not remotely putting him in the best position to succeed/get the most out of his contract. That's a "Canucks problem", not an "OEL problem". You don't fix that problem by getting rid of the good player, you build around, and complement the good player. See, this is what you and your ilk have had incredible trouble comprehending over the Benning years. It's quite a simple concept but for some reason it seems to go over your head, and that is: the salary cap, cap flexibility, and opportunity cost. When you have a crapload of expensive forwards and you already have a "not defense first top pair LHD" where in the hell are you going to find the money to pay for the supporting cast you need to "put them in the best possible position to succeed"? Benning had a guy like that in Tanev but lost him because he wanted other shiny toys. You can't have everything all at once, that's the cap. I like OEL and Garland in a vacuum. But it was a ridiculous trade when you consider our cap structure and organizational trajectory. We brought in a skill forward and a skill LH D-man when we already had those things, and then we have nothing left to get what we actually need, which are forwards and D-men that are "defense first". The D-man also being past his prime, on a team that wasn't even close to winning. They are both good players, most teams would take them, at least if OEL was a few mil cheaper and had a few less years (and please don't come at me with "the OEL contract is fine" because out of the entire hockey world, only a certain segment/usual suspects of Canucks fans actually believe that). But unless you ignore all context, the trade was a poor fit for this team. Same goes for all those "veteran leadership" acquisitions and signings. Is character and leadership during a tough rebuild where there is going to be a lot of losing important? Sure. But you find that by signing cheap 1-year deals that you may even be able to flip, or taking on cap dump vets that are over the hill but still good in the room and you get some assets along with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70seven Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 This was a brutal trade as much as i am a garland fan. Imagine a world where we re-sign Tanev and keep the cap savings/picks given up in this package. complete disgrace of asset management. I see Dickinson scoring again… and wondering once again why we are giving up picks to solve problems, only to create more problems I have been following this team since ‘91… and am fully on board for a scorched earth rebuild. with the exception of Petey, Huggy, and Demko, I’d trade the rest of this group for picks and prospects where applicable. Should have traded Miller when we had the chance. Ain’t no one taking that deal now. say goodbye to our captain for sure… and tank hard for bedard 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: See, this is what you and your ilk have had incredible trouble comprehending over the Benning years. It's quite a simple concept but for some reason it seems to go over your head, and that is: the salary cap, cap flexibility, and opportunity cost. When you have a crapload of expensive forwards and you already have a "not defense first top pair LHD" where in the hell are you going to find the money to pay for the supporting cast you need to "put them in the best possible position to succeed"? Ahem 17 hours ago, aGENT said: He's a first pair D with a low end first pair, high end 2nd pair cap hit. That's not the problem. A perfectly capable, but ill fitting 2nd pair D in Myers is a far bigger road block there. As are Virtanen/Holtby buyouts, Ferland, too many F's etc. You know, the ACTUAL cap/roster inefficiencies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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