Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I seem to recall him playing for Team Canada during this which helped not drive his trade value not too far down (keep him active/in game shape).  

He is Not Canadian.  He escaped Czech Republic during juniors in Calgary if I remember correctly. 

[bbllpp]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

He is Not Canadian.  He escaped Czech Republic during juniors in Calgary if I remember correctly. 

He played for Canada with Lindros (another hold out) in the 94 Winter Olympics.  If I recall his number choice of 93 reflects when he became a Canadian citizen 

[shiznak]

13 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

If we're to bring up Marner's deal, then let's also throw Nathan MacKinnon and Leon Draisatl into the mix.  

League MVP candidates who have proven much more in the league got these deals: 

 

MacKinnon 7 years x 6.3 million 

Draisatl 8 years x 8.5 million 

 

So yeah, Petey shouldn't be getting 9 million unless he signs an 8 year deal with us.  It just makes no sense to give him that much money on a 5 year deal even as we're not getting a deal at that price point.  We're probably overpaying him by about 2-3 million at the beginning and then saving what exactly in years 4 and 5?  $500,000?  

Oddly enough, when MacKinnon signed that deal, many thought is was an overpayment. He just came off a 53 points season, and took 8% of the team’s  salary cap. Sakic knew what he was doing, he paid him for his potential, knowing the cap was  probably going to increase each year and if he somehow didn’t reach his potential. It was still going to be a team friendly contract at the end of it.
 

Unfortunately, we probably won’t have that option with Petey. Friedman predicts the cap won’t be increasing, any time soon (heard 5 years of a flat cap, 3 years minimum). That is why I’m not too keen on paying either Hughes or Pettersson 8x8. 

[Provost]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol so which team in the NHL sat their star rfa for the entire season due to contract?? prolly like 1 or 2 in the history? lol they'll enjoy making 0 for 1 year and make it back later while your gm will be out of a job in the league

They don’t have to sit out their stars, because the players end up signing or being traded.

 

We have a fairly deep, solid team for once so need to use that as some leverage.  We would also have a crap ton of cap space if they weren’t signed this season.

 

Players can hold out their services and regularly do… teams can hold out their job offers.  It is all part of the CBA.

 

Getting good deals for these two contracts is going to decide whether we have a reasonable chance to contend for a Cup in the next 5-10 years.  It is that important, so signing bad contracts just to get them playing this year is far less important.  Toronto is a good example of how giving out a couple of bad deals to stare has ruined their chances to contend for an entire window.

 

Benning needs to learn to hang up the phone.

 

Deadlines seem to help deals get done.  Hughes has no leverage at all and since they share an agent now, we can use that in Petterson negotiations (Petterson has to sign first).  They went to the same agent to increase their leverage and it is totally fair to use it against them at the same time.

[4petesake]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Yeah, I call horse $&!# on waiting for Kaprizov.

They're barely direct comparables and one guy is clearly holding his team hostage.

 

If that's the tactic Pettersson (his agent) wants to use to help building the 'winning team' he wants to be on, have fun being traded.

 

Thankfully, I highly doubt Benning will cave to such demands (if they're even true).

I have no idea if Garrioch actually has any info on this or if he’s just pulling it out of thin air but he mentions that it is believed that the Canucks are closer to having a deal done with Petey than Quinn in this article.

 

 

[DrJockitch]

55 minutes ago, bbllpp said:

He played for Canada with Lindros (another hold out) in the 94 Winter Olympics.  If I recall his number choice of 93 reflects when he became a Canadian citizen 

Cool, didn't remember that.

[Maddogy]

On the positive side, since they are expected to miss the training camp next week, we may see some interesting D pairings and top 6 lines. Hamonic may be paired with OEL to form the shut down pair. Podkolzin may see top 6 minutes. 

 

If they have slow starts due to missing training camp, we may see Miller centering the top line and Pettersson relegated to the second line with Horvat. 

[bbllpp]

45 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Cool, didn't remember that.

Sorry had to check my facts, Lindros played in 92, Nedved played with Paul Kariya in 94.  Had my super stars mixed up

[Gawdzukes]

21 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Per Dhalliwal today contract talks on Petey and Quinn are quiet. Quiet. Not going back and forth - just quiet.

 

He says the next logical point is the day before training camp opens and he suggests this may be when things finally get going.

 

Look it's impossible to know how it ends up, but I think it is obvious that the agents are going to hold out as long as they can.  What a ridiculous process. Yes agents have a job to do but so does the team and so do the players.  The league needs to put some framework on this process rather than just hold everyone hostage while it inevitably drags on into training camp and beyond before the threat of hold out moves management and the threat of a lousy start to the year moves the player and everyone's nerves get frayed. Dumb.

[Provost]

46 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

On the positive side, since they are expected to miss the training camp next week, we may see some interesting D pairings and top 6 lines. Hamonic may be paired with OEL to form the shut down pair. Podkolzin may see top 6 minutes. 

 

If they have slow starts due to missing training camp, we may see Miller centering the top line and Pettersson relegated to the second line with Horvat. 

Yep, still looks fine… though players almost always have a bad year when missing some/all of training camp.

 

Hoglander-Horvat-Garland

Podkolzin-Miller-Boeser

Pearson-Dickinson-MacEwan

Motte-Sutter-DiGiuseppe

 

OEL-Hamonic

Juolevi-Myers

Rathbone-Poolman

 

fly at it boys and go to war with the guys who want to be part of the team.

['NucK™]

5 hours ago, Goal:thecup said:

What are his best comparables and where do you see EP's contract fitting into that group?

(If you don't mind; not trying to be argumentative.)

Couturier (8*$7.75), Landeskog (8*$7), Svechnikov (8*$7.75), Barzal (3*$7)  - maybe not direct comparables, but I would swap Petey for Svech or Barzal in a heartbeat. For him to want anything close to $9m is absolutely ridiculous. 

[Nucker 67]

Some players get their contracts done quickly, some even take a bit less, because the team is priority #1 - the ones who love where they're playing.

 

Petey's not sure I guess. He's no Henrik anyway. 

 

 

[sonoman]

1 hour ago, Maddogy said:

On the positive side, since they are expected to miss the training camp next week, we may see some interesting D pairings and top 6 lines. Hamonic may be paired with OEL to form the shut down pair. Podkolzin may see top 6 minutes. 

 

If they have slow starts due to missing training camp, we may see Miller centering the top line and Pettersson relegated to the second line with Horvat. 

Training camp the following week?  September 25 I think.  Rookie camp next week

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, Maddogy said:

On the positive side, since they are expected to miss the training camp next week,

Other than pure conjecture by so-called media where was it expressed by anyone from the Canucks organization or EP/Hughes representatives that there is an 'expectation' that they will miss camp?  I'm not trying to harass you, I just don't follow much social media garbage and didn't see/hear anyone who actually knows anything concrete about the situation express the thoughts that either play won't be at camp. 

[TFerguson]

9 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Arbitration is a brutal process. The team goes in and makes a case for why the player isn’t worth what he thinks he is. It’s generally the beginning of the end for the relationship. That’s one of the reasons  very few cases actually make it to arbitration each year 

You don't think that's exactly what's happening right now?

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, Maddogy said:

On the positive side, since they are expected to miss the training camp next week, we may see some interesting D pairings and top 6 lines. Hamonic may be paired with OEL to form the shut down pair. Podkolzin may see top 6 minutes. 

 

If they have slow starts due to missing training camp, we may see Miller centering the top line and Pettersson relegated to the second line with Horvat. 

Have no idea why you would think they will miss training camp, or the start of training camp for that matter. 

 

Contracts can be done within a few hours when both sides are committed to working through issues and hammering out a deal.

 

We have more than a week before the start of camp, that's plenty of time to get this done.

 

[tas]

22 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Per Dhalliwal today contract talks on Petey and Quinn are quiet. Quiet. Not going back and forth - just quiet.

 

He says the next logical point is the day before training camp opens and he suggests this may be when things finally get going.

 

Look it's impossible to know how it ends up, but I think it is obvious that the agents are going to hold out as long as they can.  What a ridiculous process. Yes agents have a job to do but so does the team and so do the players.  The league needs to put some framework on this process rather than just hold everyone hostage while it inevitably drags on into training camp and beyond before the threat of hold out moves management and the threat of a lousy start to the year moves the player and everyone's nerves get frayed. Dumb.

one of these days rick will realize that just because he isn't hearing anything doesn't mean it's quiet -- it means his loose lips have sunk all his source ships. 

[qwijibo]

20 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said:

You don't think that's exactly what's happening right now?

They aren’t doing it to the players face. Seriously. Arbitration hearings are known to be vicious 

['NucK™]

19 minutes ago, AllWeatherFan said:

You don't think that's exactly what's happening right now?

Not quite the same.. negotiations are much more about finding middle ground. Arbitration on the other hand is all about pushing solely your side of the story, and ignoring the other side, because you literally need to convince the arbitrator that what the other side is asking/offering is unreasonable. 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

They don’t have to sit out their stars, because the players end up signing or being traded.

 

We have a fairly deep, solid team for once so need to use that as some leverage.  We would also have a crap ton of cap space if they weren’t signed this season.

 

Players can hold out their services and regularly do… teams can hold out their job offers.  It is all part of the CBA.

 

Getting good deals for these two contracts is going to decide whether we have a reasonable chance to contend for a Cup in the next 5-10 years.  It is that important, so signing bad contracts just to get them playing this year is far less important.  Toronto is a good example of how giving out a couple of bad deals to stare has ruined their chances to contend for an entire window.

 

Benning needs to learn to hang up the phone.

 

Deadlines seem to help deals get done.  Hughes has no leverage at all and since they share an agent now, we can use that in Petterson negotiations (Petterson has to sign first).  They went to the same agent to increase their leverage and it is totally fair to use it against them at the same time.

Toronto's problem wasn't the plan, it was the execution.  They were attempting to emulate the Pens.  They failed to surround their stars with an adequate supporting cast imho.