How did JR/PA do on TDL 2022? (10 being best, 1 being worst)

[BCNate]

18 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Regardless.  Treading water is what we've done for about 7 or 8 years.

 

We're in tight now to re-sign Boeser, either make an offer to Miller or move him, shore up that blue line and still re-stock the cupboards.  By doing what we did, we didn't pick a direction.  We didn't give the players any definitive answers except to suggest "go out and play it is what it is" and we didn't see management, all 17.4 of them; actually suggest there was an active or actual plan for the future in place.

 

The person I responded to is right in that a lot of the angst possibly shown today is due to the lack of an actual direction or definitive plan from a group famous for making trades by the bucketload.

 

We may NOT be in a rush to do anything at this point, but for a fan base that has literally seen this exact MO for almost 8 years; it is frustrating to have thought we'd be seeing anything different; only to receive more of the exact same.

Honest question: What did you think they were going to do?

 

We had no assets that had to be moved aside from Motte, and some undesirable players.  Should they have taken less for Boeser, Garland, Miller just to apease a fan base?  They did very well on the Hamonic/Dermott deals, and got a 4th round pick for an upcoming UFA 4th liner.  Dermott is light years better than our current #3LD, is young, and signed for 1.5 mil next year. That was a solid move.  The fact we didn't have to retain/buyout/sweeten the pot for Hamonic is also a huge win.

 

I'm sorry they didn't make enough trades for your liking, but holding the course until the summer, when the market for players is much bigger, was 100% the right call in my eyes.

[RU SERIOUS]

23 hours ago, Itchyfinger said:

Let’s bring in a 37 year old guy that can’t crack the flames roster to replace motte.....

 

He's just a Temp/Plug, so don't get too excited..  With our season basically over after last weeks disasterous home stand, there is no need to make knee-jerk decisions.  I'm very, very happy that JR & Alvin did not start off the team "Tear-Down & Rebuild' like a Bulldozer in a China shop and lose players for nothing, or below market value, or sign players at above what they're worth and hand out NTC's like Candy - like Uncle Jim did every year - with Aqua-lini pressuring in the background.

 

It's a Healthy Change and let our new management take their time and get the Rebuild done right this time.   We've waited over a decade for this.................

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

Thing is, not everyone wants to play in Canada, let alone Vancouver. 

That works for me........................  They Can stay in the Excited States of America.  See if I care.............

[spook007]

5 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

He's just a Temp/Plug, so don't get too excited..  With our season basically over after last weeks disasterous home stand, there is no need to make knee-jerk decisions.  I'm very, very happy that JR & Alvin did not start off the team "Tear-Down & Rebuild' like a Bulldozer in a China shop and lose players for nothing, or below market value, or sign players at above what they're worth and hand out NTC's like Candy - like Uncle Jim did every year - with Aqua-lini pressuring in the background.

 

It's a Healthy Change and let our new management take their time and get the Rebuild done right this time.   We've waited over a decade for this.................

Exactly...  Don't quite agree with the Uncle Jim and NTC's as nobody was worse than MG to do so.... 

But the rest is spot on.

 

You don't deal good players for scrubs, unless they are about to run out of contract, and even then there can be a discussion of, how much you will allow another team to fleece you... We see in the off season, what direction they are planning, but I don't expect much until next years TDL/Offseason... 

 

There offers this season was obvious not earth shattering, so they stay put...

[RU SERIOUS]

Just now, spook007 said:

Exactly...  Don't quite agree with the Uncle Jim and NTC's as nobody was worse than MG to do so.... 

But the rest is spot on.

 

You don't deal good players for scrubs, unless they are about to run out of contract, and even then there can be a discussion of, how much you will allow another team to fleece you... We see in the off season, what direction they are planning, but I don't expect much until next years TDL/Offseason... 

 

There offers this season was obvious not earth shattering, so they stay put...

You are definately correct about MG being the "King" of NTC's.  No one can argue that.

[Lil B From The Pack]

Some people have insanely unrealistic expectations and it shows.

 

That's my only takeaway tbh.

 

Fam this ain't EA Sports

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Lil B From The Pack

[Fred65]

48 minutes ago, RU SERIOUS said:

You are definately correct about MG being the "King" of NTC's.  No one can argue that.

I'd agree with that however hasten to point out ( for those that were fans in 2011, 11 years ago ) there was a purpose to those NTC, to lessen the Salary Cap hit with longer and guarenteed salaries. Current NTC are used to lure players to waste their NHL career in Vcr. Many fans seem to believe Vcr is the lotus land of the NHL. I don't believe that's true, high taxes and expensive housing costs takes a big chunk out of their salaries in a very limited hockey career. Some, Myers and Schenn for example, have family ties to BC and was a great selling point for Vcr

[MystifyNCrucify]

On 3/21/2022 at 7:39 PM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I guess this is what happens when you have a meddlesome mobster owner that won't let the team rebuild properly because of the off chance of a little bit more playoff revenue, a geriatric president, and a management staff that's half "old boy's club" and half diversity hires.

Thats exactly what the management team seems like to me. Allvin felt like a buddy buddy yes man hire for rutherford, in the same mold as kevin lowe in the oilers organization. 

 

I would like to watch more actual press conferences from each of them to get a better feel for them individually but as far as i know only rutherford and allvin have done any? 

 

Its hard to give castonguay and granato credit for any good done in the organization if we dont actually know what they are specifically in charge of. 

 

Honestly though i havent been paying much attention so i may have missed that info. 

 

After i read the little bit about allvin on his hiring, all i could think was another five years of mediocrity. 

 

Who knows though? Probably just me being a pessimistic canuck fan. Like i said, id like to hear more from management individually, and see what they do in the draft/free agency before making up my mind. 

[KyGuy123]

This team was always going to be tinkered with during the off-season. I expect at the draft we see some fireworks. Lots of the foundation for deals have probably already been set by the deadline here.

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I'd agree with that however hasten to point out ( for those that were fans in 2011, 11 years ago ) there was a purpose to those NTC, to lessen the Salary Cap hit with longer and guarenteed salaries. Current NTC are used to lure players to waste their NHL career in Vcr. Many fans seem to believe Vcr is the lotus land of the NHL. I don't believe that's true, high taxes and expensive housing costs takes a big chunk out of their salaries in a very limited hockey career. Some, Myers and Schenn for example, have family ties to BC and was a great selling point for Vcr

Yes ... and all those savings were used on Booth and Ballard (and assets including a first - albeit the only first MG ever traded)....the equivalent contract is 6 million plus in todays dollars to boot.   It's too bad, bad luck (injuries) as well, most - myself included, were pretty excited at the time.   

[StanleyCupOneDay]

On 3/21/2022 at 6:04 PM, BC_Hawk said:

The Hamonic to Dermott move was the positive thing they did. Hamonic is, right now, the better player, but he really screwed the canucks over in his tenure here. He was relied on to be a top 4 Dman; we got injures and covid/antivax BS. He honestly cost us games at the beginning of the year becasue of it.

 

I am looking fwd to see what Dermott brings in a 3rd pairing role. At 1.5m for 2022/23, he is OK in a 6/7 spot., with the value point Schenn offers in that same time period. <2.5m for a 4/5 and a 6/7 Dmen isnt horrendous.

If any group of people on this planet had an actual good reason to be skeptical of the vaccine it’s native Americans. The things past governments did to them in the name of “trying to help” is unacceptable. I don’t blame future generations being taught to be wary of a government trying to help them, especially when it comes to vaccines. I give Hamonic a big pass on the hesitation to get a vaccine and I think everyone else should too. He did get it in the end after all.

 

Hamonic was good for us when he was healthy, but injuries hampered him as a Canuck. He was getting older though, which may or may not be a risk of his play declining rapidly. Either way he’s now been traded, I thank him for what he’s done and wish him the best on his new team.

 

I always like the strategy of buying low, so we’ll see if Dermott can step up his game while here. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. Time will tell.

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, StanleyCupOneDay said:

If any group of people on this planet had an actual good reason to be skeptical of the vaccine it’s native Americans. The things past governments did to them in the name of “trying to help” is unacceptable. I don’t blame future generations being taught to be wary of a government trying to help them, especially when it comes to vaccines. I give Hamonic a big pass on the hesitation to get a vaccine and I think everyone else should too. He did get it in the end after all.

 

Hamonic was good for us when he was healthy, but injuries hampered him as a Canuck. He was getting older though, which may or may not be a risk of his play declining rapidly. Either way he’s now been traded, I thank him for what he’s done and wish him the best on his new team.

 

I always like the strategy of buying low, so we’ll see if Dermott can step up his game while here. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. Time will tell.

[I think the same thing is happening in China now.

That is, people refusing to get vaccinated because of the complete lack of trust, even fear, of the government.

But, for me anyway, that's enough about Travis, Covid, and social injustices; back to hockey.]

 

Perhaps you don't find a 'diamond' in the rough, but a young serviceable NHL player with potential is definitely worth more than a 3rd round pick.

[DSVII]

Here's how this TDL looks in the context of the Benning era.

2015:

• Canucks acquire Sven Baertschi from the Calgary Flames for a 2nd round draft pick (Rasmus Andersson)
• Canucks acquire Cory Conacher from the New York Islanders for Dustin Jeffrey

2016:

• Canucks acquire Philip Larsen from the Edmonton Oilers for a 5th round draft pick
• Canucks acquire Markus Granlund from the Calgary Flames for Hunter Shinkaruk

2017: 

• Canucks acquire Nikolay Goldobin and a 4th round draft pick from the San Jose Sharks for Jannik Hansen
• Canucks acquire Jonathan Dahlen from the Ottawa Senators for Alex Burrows

2018:

• Canucks acquire Jussi Jokinen and Tyler Motte from the Columbus Blue Jackets for Thomas Vanek
• Canucks acquire Brendan Leipsic from the Vegas Golden Knights for Philip Holm

2019:

• Canucks trade Erik Gudbranson to the Pittsburgh Penguins for Tanner Pearson
• Canucks trade Jonathan Dahlen to the Sharks for Linus Karlsson
• Canucks trade Sam Gagner to the Oilers for Ryan Spooner
• Canucks trade a 7th-round pick to the New York Rangers for Marek Mazanec

2020:

• Canucks trade Tyler Madden, Tim Schaller, and a 2nd-round pick to the Los Angeles Kings for Tyler Toffoli

2021:

• Canucks Trade Jorden Benn for a 6th round pick
• Canucks Trade 4th round pick for Madison Bowey and a 5th round pick
• Canucks Trade Adam Gaudette for Matthew Highmore

2022:

• Canucks trade Travis Hamonic for a 3rd round pick
• Canucks trade 3rd round pick for Travis Dermott
• Canucks trade Tyler Motte for a 4th

Edited March 23, 2022 by DSVII

[Canucklehead73]

Not sure what all the hubbub is about... Canucks are a bubble team on a losing streak, pretty much a tough spot for any GM.

 

Traded away a 4th line guy, with injury history, heading for UFA status...I'm sure they asked his plans on signing next year... for 4th round pick What did you expect to get?

 

I liked Hamonic's play, I think there may have been underlying issues with this situation we are not privy to, but that's just my take on it. Hurts our top 4 though hard to miss.

 

Dermott covers for Poolman and then replaces Hunt once he is gone, do we have a better Dman in the minors? Haven't seen one do anything when called up yet.

 

Otherwise this team has been playing well so it's hard for management to just clean house...

 

Not a fan of Pearson myself but he is a veteran presence on a decent contract, Boeser is slow but can put the puck in the net which is very hard to find, and nobody is going to want our depth guys... the ones we want to part with anyways... cough Chaisson cough Dickinson cough Maybe Dickinson is just having an off year coming to a new team.

 

Anyways I did not see much opportunity all things considered.

 

 

[Jaimito]

Nice to see the front office guys and gals

 

 

 

 

 

[13231]

On 3/22/2022 at 9:05 AM, lmm said:

whaat?

where did you get that from? You do not shake up a locker room of a team that sharts the bed every second game?

this is a locker room that got their last coach fired and is not responding consistently to the new coach

If you don't trade guys off this roster why not sign them all to NM contracts?

this roster has received more than they have earned

I fundamentally disagree with you on everything you have said. These last three games, let alone how the team responded with BB as coach after Green's debacle, shows enough evidence of this team's character to me. If you call any of this sharting the bed every second game, I know for certain that I will not be able to reason with you in any way. And as for the trade, it would be really nice to still have Motte down this last 17 game stretch. This was an unnecessary trade, but I guess hopefully the 4th rounder works out in 4-5 years from now. 

[canucklehead44]

I gave them an 8. 

 

Getting a 3rd for Hamonic was brilliant. Saves us cap for next year and we got an asset for a guy who has been more trouble than he is worth.

 

Flipping a 3rd for Dermott was also a good move. Dermott is a more solid defender and still has upside. He fits with the age of our core better and is on a cheap contract.

 

A 4th for Motte was disappointing but was market value. I am happy we got something for a guy likely to leave as a UFA. 
 

Richardson is a solid pickup. Good faceoff guy, seasoned vet, this is how you supplement a young roster. He fills a gap left by Motte and is more than capable of handling 4th like duties. 
 

Looking purely at analytics both players we acquired are upgrades, we saved $1.5 million in cap for next year, are younger going into next year and got a 4th round lottery ticket to boot. Not a lot of action but very solid, shrewd moves.

Edited March 27, 2022 by canucklehead44

[lmm]

13 hours ago, 13231 said:

I fundamentally disagree with you on everything you have said. These last three games, let alone how the team responded with BB as coach after Green's debacle, shows enough evidence of this team's character to me. If you call any of this sharting the bed every second game, I know for certain that I will not be able to reason with you in any way. And as for the trade, it would be really nice to still have Motte down this last 17 game stretch. This was an unnecessary trade, but I guess hopefully the 4th rounder works out in 4-5 years from now. 

Its OK that we fundamentally disagree

You believe 17 games of Motte (even if he is not resigned, {from another post}) is worth more than the return

you believe this group is "OWED" the chance to try and squeak into the playoffs

You seem blind to the failures of this group, and blind to the number of times they come out cold or fail against bottom dwellers

That is all fine, and I disagree with all those point

but it is ironic that you have already thrown in the towel with regards to reasoning with me, because if you can't and won't even try to reason, way would anyone care to listen?

 

Take canucklehead below

that is a very reasoned response 

makes me rethink my initial score of 2/10

based on canuckle's post, I think I'll change my vote to 4/10

I still think they should have done more, but what they did do was good 

10 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

I gave them an 8. 

 

Getting a 3rd for Hamonic was brilliant. Saves us cap for next year and we got an asset for a guy who has been more trouble than he is worth.

 

Flipping a 3rd for Dermott was also a good move. Dermott is a more solid defender and still has upside. He fits with the age of our core better and is on a cheap contract.

 

A 4th for Motte was disappointing but was market value. I am happy we got something for a guy likely to leave as a UFA. 
 

Richardson is a solid pickup. Good faceoff guy, seasoned vet, this is how you supplement a young roster. He fills a gap left by Motte and is more than capable of handling 4th like duties. 
 

Looking purely at analytics both players we acquired are upgrades, we saved $1.5 million in cap for next year, are younger going into next year and got a 4th round lottery ticket to boot. Not a lot of action but very solid, shrewd moves.

More for 132

here are a couple of points that you might have missed

1 If the Canucks are embarking on a culture change, that includes changes in the way the team is managed.

It has been said that Motte and the management were not close to a deal

if true, is management giving the team the right signal by retaining Motte for 17 games, and losing him for nothing, (old management style)

or

does management make a bigger statement by off loading Motte to message the other FAs that this management group is not afraid to cut loose players who over value their services?

 

2 You bring up the last 3 games.

the last 3 games show that this team does not need Motte as desperately as some might think, ( the whole is bigger than the one)

 

3 Management needed to make some statement this deadline.

They could not very well come in, retool the front office for 3 months then say "You know what, Ol Jimmer put together a pretty good squad"

that would have been very bad for their credibility.

Trading Motte was a bare minimum move

 

canuckle

nice post I upped my score based on this response

[J-23]

I will wait till' offseason to make a judgement on this management group.

 

There is really no win-win with the Motte trade. Keep him and let him walk in off-season. Overreaction. Trade him for a 4th, which was what his type of players like Appleton were going for. Overreaction. I was okay with the Motte trade, going to lose players you like, part of the game. 

 

When JR and BB was coming in, I was excited, we were going after guys with experience. Sick of the rookie coaches and GM's. However, I have to say not too pleased with singing all these new rookie GM's. I guess it's difficult to find an experienced GM with a good track record. I'll try to be optimistic and wait and see what they do from here on out. The leash is short though. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by J-23

[Me_]

JR/PA did great at the deadline.

 

Traded Motte; an asset that would cost too much to re-sign,

 

Traded Hamonic; a dumb dumb who dumb dumbs too much dumb,

 

Traded for Dermott who looks great on the bottom pairing.

 

All of this for an added 4th and $1,500,000 cap space.

 

But most importantly, kept then 22-10-5 team intact.

 

Since then they’ve won against the best team in the league (COL), took a point out of MIN, and won against DAL.

 

Great work.