[Trade] Canucks trade Bo Horvat to Islanders for Anthony Beauvillier, Aatu Raty, 2023 1st-round draft pick

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I realize it is a big step but wasn't Bo touted as the next Bergeron? Bo's FO ability is arguable better but his d-side game was never close. On the

o-side Bo was capable and arguably he never had the linemates that Bergeron did. A lot of fans dumping on him right now but I am willing to see what happens next year. I do suspect a certain reversion to mean but how much? 

Bo is a 50-60 point (30 goal) centre that doesn’t drive offence and struggles defensively. He’s a 6.5 mil player. 

[rekker]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I realize it is a big step but wasn't Bo touted as the next Bergeron? Bo's FO ability is arguable better but his d-side game was never close. On the

o-side Bo was capable and arguably he never had the linemates that Bergeron did. A lot of fans dumping on him right now but I am willing to see what happens next year. I do suspect a certain reversion to mean but how much? 

He was. I liked Bo a lot but he was overrated defensively 

 

[Alflives]

So happy with this trade. Dumped our Elephant, which cleared the air in the room. Team is so much better without Bo. Plus, we ended up with three pieces better than Bo. Hronek is obviously better. Not close. New Beau proved better. More points. And Raty is already a better defensive player than Bo. Way smarter. 

Huge win for our club!

[flickyoursedin]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

So happy with this trade. Dumped our Elephant, which cleared the air in the room. Team is so much better without Bo. Plus, we ended up with three pieces better than Bo. Hronek is obviously better. Not close. New Beau proved better. More points. And Raty is already a better defensive player than Bo. Way smarter. 

Huge win for our club!

Bo is good defensively. The thing with Bo is he’s limited offensively to where he can’t drive a line. A fantastic complementary forward but he’s now getting paid like a guy that should be driving the play and the line which isn’t where he’ll find his most success. He racked up too many points that signing him mid season to what he’s worth 6.5 became impossible to get done.

[Westcoastcanucks777]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

So happy with this trade. Dumped our Elephant, which cleared the air in the room. Team is so much better without Bo. Plus, we ended up with three pieces better than Bo. Hronek is obviously better. Not close. New Beau proved better. More points. And Raty is already a better defensive player than Bo. Way smarter. 

Huge win for our club!

All the guys are saying get Bo back!

[c00kies]

On 5/8/2023 at 12:08 AM, iinatcc said:

The guys in Sportsnet 650 did mention something similar. That he wasn't that bad with the Islanders due to his defensive game but also pointed out that when Horvat's defensive game improves his offense suffers and vise versa and can't seem to do both at the same time.

 

But who knows maybe he figures this out with a Lou Lamoriello ran hockey organization. And I guess next season we figure out who the real Bo Horvat is. 

I know it took Kesler a long time to get the offense going, but he truly mastered the defensive side alongside Burrows, and then he worked on his offense which coincided with his bump up to 2nd line centre (and Burrows then to the first line with the Sedins).

 

It depends what you need and how patient you can be with players. If you don't need instant scoring forwards, you can build them defensively and then have them work on offense once you move them up the line-up.

 

Horvat seems to be confused on what he is; as he was a faceoff specialist who was supposed to be good defensively, but then transitioned to full goal-scorer without fully developing the defensive side, and then he was forced back to being a two-way guy, but his offense never fully developed either (AKA he "cheated" to get points and goals).

[Alflives]

Watching these playoff games and there are many player paid less than Bo who are way better than him. Damn Allvin did good with his return for the Elephant. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Watching these playoff games and there are many player paid less than Bo who are way better than him. Damn Allvin did good with his return for the Elephant. 

I'll take Kotkaniemi over BO any time.  He's a true 3C who is much better defensively and can get you 40-45 points, maybe more...

[Canucks Curse]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Watching these playoff games and there are many player paid less than Bo who are way better than him. Damn Allvin did good with his return for the Elephant. 

even Bo at 7 million now sounds like a bad idea...their valuation of him was spot on

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I'll take Kotkaniemi over BO any time.  He's a true 3C who is much better defensively and can get you 40-45 points, maybe more...

Kotkaniemi has had an interesting career so far.  He actually cashed in at a low point and has since become the best third line centre in the league.  He is easily a solid top-six forward on any other team.

 

I don't remember the last time Vancouver did that kind of a move (locking someone up long-term when they were struggling).  I think Horvat at $5M was perfectly fine over the years.

[D-Money]

4 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Kotkaniemi has had an interesting career so far.  He actually cashed in at a low point and has since become the best third line centre in the league.  He is easily a solid top-six forward on any other team.

 

I don't remember the last time Vancouver did that kind of a move (locking someone up long-term when they were struggling).  I think Horvat at $5M was perfectly fine over the years.

Although at a different level, it's similar to the Avs locking up MacKinnon to his previous contract. He hadn't figured it all out, but Colorado bet long term on him.

 

That was July 2016, and it took another full season before he really broke out. But once he did, they had him for 6 more years at only $6.3M.

 

If Benning hadn't screwed up the cap, I tend to think that we could have locked up Pettersson at 8 x $9.25M in 2021, rather than the 3-year, $7.5M bridge deal we signed him to. He was coming off a tough year, dealing with injury. It would have looked a bit worrisome when he was continuing to struggle the following season. But now? How nice would it be to have Pettersson locked up well under market value?

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Kotkaniemi has had an interesting career so far.  He actually cashed in at a low point and has since become the best third line centre in the league.  He is easily a solid top-six forward on any other team.

 

I don't remember the last time Vancouver did that kind of a move (locking someone up long-term when they were struggling).  I think Horvat at $5M was perfectly fine over the years.

Kotkaniemi is taking great strides in these playoffs. Again, Carolina gets top marks for patience with their player development. Look at Chatfield as he plays his 15 - 17 minutes of TOI every game. 

[AnthonyG]

4 hours ago, D-Money said:

If Benning hadn't screwed up the cap

 

Ya cuz Benning froze the cap. Lol

[IBatch]

On 5/8/2023 at 10:06 AM, Boudrias said:

I realize it is a big step but wasn't Bo touted as the next Bergeron? Bo's FO ability is arguable better but his d-side game was never close. On the

o-side Bo was capable and arguably he never had the linemates that Bergeron did. A lot of fans dumping on him right now but I am willing to see what happens next year. I do suspect a certain reversion to mean but how much? 

When he was drafted, it was just that he had clutch abilities and was good at face offs.   During the bubble Toews said some nice things about him.   But don't re-call any "next Bergeron" stuff when he was drafted at all. 

[spook007]

9 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

Ya cuz Benning froze the cap. Lol

That was one thing he couldn't have foreseen. 

[Ballisticsports.]

18 minutes ago, spook007 said:

That was one thing he couldn't have foreseen. 

So he counted his chickens before they hatched and signed players and traded picks while while still keeping us at the bottom of the standings

He had horrible insight in team building that we may not recover from  for years

[AnthonyG]

8 minutes ago, Ballisticsports. said:

So he counted his chickens before they hatched and signed players and traded picks while while still keeping us at the bottom of the standings

He had horrible insight in team building that we may not recover from  for years

We’ll just dismiss the damage that Gillis did to the future eh?

[spook007]

17 minutes ago, Ballisticsports. said:

So he counted his chickens before they hatched and signed players and traded picks while while still keeping us at the bottom of the standings

He had horrible insight in team building that we may not recover from  for years

I'm sure he was not the only one doing that. Cap was supposed to go up. 
Early bird catches the worm, so I'm not sure you can blame him for that. 

That he traded for and signed players that didn't live up to expectations is entirely on his shoulders, but not that the cap suddenly got locked instead of increased as expected. 
 

PS. I'm not defending Benning, and the OEL life time contracts he signed, is already as bad as it gets. 
We can all but hope, that he suddenly remembers to play hockey again. 
Myers at worst thankfully only have another year left. 

Edited May 12, 2023 by spook007

[Ballisticsports.]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

We’ll just dismiss the damage that Gillis did to the future eh?

Not sure why you want to compare ?

Are you defending him? (this wasn't a comparison remark)

One almost brought as a Cup to one that kept us at bottom for over a decade+?

Until a GM brings a cup

[Timråfan]

11 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

We’ll just dismiss the damage that Gillis did to the future eh?

Hmm, tell me again how many years Benning had to change the cap, players etc… Then look at what PA did in a year while handicapped by Benning.

Talk about excuses all the time for a worthless GM.