[Report] Isles looking for Defensive Forward

[DeNiro]

39 minutes ago, D-Money said:

Sutter was integral to all 3 goals last night. He’s been solid ever since he came back.

 

Moving LE is a pipe dream (at least until July 1st). Just let it go.

 

I’d much rather look at moving Roussel. He’s having less impact than Sutter, and has 2 years left on his contract. Sutter’s deal expires exactly when we need it to.

 Benning will only be adding not subtracting. 
 

He doesn’t want to mess with chemistry and nor should he.

[Canucks Curse]

you need 7 players to win the cup and those 7 players have to be better overall than the other teams' 7 players

 

In order of importance:

 

1. Two way # 1 d man ( ex: chara, pronged, letang, doughty, Carlson, leetch, lidstrom, Bourque, foote, neidermeyer, Keith..) 

2. Elite 1C ( Crosby, malkin, toews, carter, kopitar, Backstrom, Bergeron)

3. Elite G (Fleury, Holtby...JS Giguerre, brodeur, roy, 

4. Two way 2C 

5. high end puck moving d man or great # 2 d man (Beauchemin, Seabrook, 

6.High end scoring winger (Kane, Marchand...

7. 3C - Sammi Paulsson, John Madden etc...

 

we have a lot of pieces and all we need is seasoning, but we are also missing that true number 1 d man- now maybe it will be Hughes like a pal Coffey but who knows... he lacks the size but has been pretty good defensively

 

1. 1D...

2.1C- Petterson

3. Markstrom

4.Horvat

5.Hughes

6.Boesser/Miller

7. 3C... Sutter/Beagle are too old, Gaudette is too young

 

2-7 are all great pieces but they are not top 5 for their positions in the league, this will take 2-3 years 

I think we need to focus our effort on accumulating assets and then when that 1D becomes available (was hoping maybe shea weber next year in a trade but now he is hurt) we sign him like Burke signed Neids, or trade for him like Burke did for Pronger.

 

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

you need 7 players to win the cup and those 7 players have to be better overall than the other teams' 7 players

 

In order of importance:

 

1. Two way # 1 d man ( ex: chara, pronged, letang, doughty, Carlson, leetch, lidstrom, Bourque, foote, neidermeyer, Keith..) 

2. Elite 1C ( Crosby, malkin, toews, carter, kopitar, Backstrom, Bergeron)

3. Elite G (Fleury, Holtby...JS Giguerre, brodeur, roy, 

4. Two way 2C 

5. high end puck moving d man or great # 2 d man (Beauchemin, Seabrook, 

6.High end scoring winger (Kane, Marchand...

7. 3C - Sammi Paulsson, John Madden etc...

 

we have a lot of pieces and all we need is seasoning, but we are also missing that true number 1 d man- now maybe it will be Hughes like a pal Coffey but who knows... he lacks the size but has been pretty good defensively

 

1. 1D...

2.1C- Petterson

3. Markstrom

4.Horvat

5.Hughes

6.Boesser/Miller

7. 3C... Sutter/Beagle are too old, Gaudette is too young

 

2-7 are all great pieces but they are not top 5 for their positions in the league, this will take 2-3 years 

I think we need to focus our effort on accumulating assets and then when that 1D becomes available (was hoping maybe shea weber next year in a trade but now he is hurt) we sign him like Burke signed Neids, or trade for him like Burke did for Pronger.

 

 

Hughes is a phenom.  He’s better than Keith ever was already.  He’s clearly a number one D.  

[Canucks Curse]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Hughes is a phenom.  He’s better than Keith ever was already.  He’s clearly a number one D.  

glad you feel that way, I think he will start to be more chippy and sneaky physical as he gets more comfortable, would be nice for him to have an absolute menace to play with ... maybe Tryamkin.

[Ossi Vaananen]

We need to hop on this. Give the Isles any of our glut of experienced bottom 6 forwards, i assure you we won't miss them. That or trade with Columbus, who has no picks in the first 3 rounds and has 5 mil in cap space before LTIR. Our only concern should be cap space beyond this season. We won't be buyers but if we can move cap without disrupting what our team has, you gotta do it. 

 

Isles:

Sutter

 

Van:

2nd

---

 

Columbus:

Baertschi

3rd

 

Van:

Harrington

----

BONUS

 

MTL:

Jo. Benn

 

Van:

6tth

 

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. A man can dream. Imagine being able to keep our crew together and being able to extend our young talent, that should be the motivating factor. 

[Trebreh]

2 for 1 package of Sutter and Roussel for a 1st round pick and Johnston. 

 

Miller - Pettersson - Boeser

Pearson - Horvat - Virtanen

Ferland - Gaudette - Leivo

Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

 

 

[Tystick]

6 hours ago, Me_ said:

Did you see the game yesterday? 
Sutter and Roussel ROCKED.

 

Basically now that the playoff race is on, the vets are showing up. This team doesn’t nearly have the same success if they don’t ice players like Beagle, Roussel, Sutter and Myers.

 

There may be a case for an Eriksson trade, but even he has turned it up.

 

These vets ARE. needed.

Never said we don't need them.

Just mentioned that if we traded one, it wouldn't make or break the team.

This was just my opinion of who we could trade in the context of this topic.

I guess it's turning into something else, so I'll agree to disagree.

[Tystick]

6 hours ago, theo5789 said:

This is starting to sound like a broken record.

 

Is our team better with Sutter in the lineup? Is he currently in our lineup? Are we winning with him in the lineup? He contributes to the team as a center, PKer and lately being put into offensive roles. He's an assistant captain of the team, so he is amongst the leadership group.

 

With this said, look at what you're saying and look from the perspective of the other team. If Sutter isn't a "make or break" player, why would a team want him this year and next? They are well aware of the injuries as well. Now look at Roussel, clearly you see value there. Look at the players you have projected to return and they are both wingers. Something that Roussel is as well, so he has replacements in place. Schaller could be traded or could be waived to save some cap space as well, but again another winger. I could also see us waiving Leivo or extending his conditioning time as long as possible. We have an abundance of wingers, but center depth (that can take faceoffs) is thin. Sutter has more value to us heading into a playoff position compared to Roussel. Especially when considering that our main call up has also been a winger in MacEwen and now Bailey is getting a look. Who are we calling up should a center go down with an injury (Graovac has been out since near the beginning of the year and was our best center call-up option)? Sutter may not be a bonafide top player for our team, but the ripple effect of "dumping" him is much greater.

 

Now with that said, I'm not wanting to move Roussel either. But as you're eluding to, we are looking at who is most likely to be moved if we indeed need to move a contract. I think in terms of team balance/chemistry that we could part with, it makes Roussel expendable if need be. I have no doubt that Benning has something up his sleeve to make this all work out. I'm not all that concerned, so long as the team isn't downgrading heading into the playoffs.

If a team is seeking a defensive forward, yes, Sutter is a great trade target.

Is he valuable to the Canucks? Yes.

I've never claimed he isn't valuable, but that said, we've also had success without him in the lineup.

In the context of this thread, he was one of the options I listed. That's how this all started so sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but I'm trying to drill my point home and many are turning this into something else.

 

You guys are the ones claiming I'm arguing to "dump Sutter's contract".

Never said that.

Can we clear up cap space by trading his contract? Yes.

Hence the entire point of this thread. NYI looking for a defensive forward.

 

Arguing for Roussel is fine, I'm not opposed to that, I just personally think Sutter makes more sense.

Agree to disagree.

[theo5789]

17 minutes ago, Tystick said:

If a team is seeking a defensive forward, yes, Sutter is a great trade target.

Is he valuable to the Canucks? Yes.

I've never claimed he isn't valuable, but that said, we've also had success without him in the lineup.

In the context of this thread, he was one of the options I listed. That's how this all started so sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record, but I'm trying to drill my point home and many are turning this into something else.

 

You guys are the ones claiming I'm arguing to "dump Sutter's contract".

Never said that.

Can we clear up cap space by trading his contract? Yes.

Hence the entire point of this thread. NYI looking for a defensive forward.

 

Arguing for Roussel is fine, I'm not opposed to that, I just personally think Sutter makes more sense.

Agree to disagree.

The broken record comment is in regards to whether a player is valuable because they aren't "make or break" players. I've heard this several times especially with the Tanev trade talks as well.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I get that we can dump cap by moving Sutter, however it hurts our playoffs aspirations. He alone may not be "make or break", but losing him currently would create a ripple effect on the minutes of the team. We may have had some success without him, but over a longer duration, we start to see the effects. We start to see Miller/Horvat taking on PK minutes which take away from their offensive energy. Horvat gets more faceoff shifts again adding more minutes to himself. It wears down the centers. God forbid we go down another center after we have supposedly dealt Sutter. The value of Sutter is underrated and underappreciated. So while we could use the cap space, we also need his depth for any playoff aspirations. Now just like the "make or break" record, generally the next record we hear is how we won't be winning this year anyway. The goal this year is to give our young roster a positive playoff experience and no matter how far we get, it's best to put the best team going forward and not downgrade to allow them to develop and to assess the team to determine what missing pieces are needed.

 

Roussel is a defensive forward (amongst other things) and would also help us with cap relief and would be less detrimental to our team moving forward with our abundance of depth at wing. He has enough value that we most likely do not need to add to move him and could potentially unload his entire cap hit. It's arguable that Roussel has a reputation that isn't favourable to allow him to play the game he wants and especially so for those that believe the league already has it in against us.

 

There's other options though like maybe trading Schaller (another defensive forward) who could be acquired for cheaper if NYI doesn't want to splurge. 

 

Whatever the case, I can't see us moving Sutter at the TDL unless some team really wants to buy him from us. I could see us exploring moving him in the offseason after hopefully he finishes out the year and has a decent playoff showing which only ups his value.

[Tystick]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

The broken record comment is in regards to whether a player is valuable because they aren't "make or break" players. I've heard this several times especially with the Tanev trade talks as well.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I get that we can dump cap by moving Sutter, however it hurts our playoffs aspirations. He alone may not be "make or break", but losing him currently would create a ripple effect on the minutes of the team. We may have had some success without him, but over a longer duration, we start to see the effects. We start to see Miller/Horvat taking on PK minutes which take away from their offensive energy. Horvat gets more faceoff shifts again adding more minutes to himself. It wears down the centers. God forbid we go down another center after we have supposedly dealt Sutter. The value of Sutter is underrated and underappreciated. So while we could use the cap space, we also need his depth for any playoff aspirations. Now just like the "make or break" record, generally the next record we hear is how we won't be winning this year anyway. The goal this year is to give our young roster a positive playoff experience and no matter how far we get, it's best to put the best team going forward and not downgrade to allow them to develop and to assess the team to determine what missing pieces are needed.

 

Roussel is a defensive forward (amongst other things) and would also help us with cap relief and would be less detrimental to our team moving forward with our abundance of depth at wing. He has enough value that we most likely do not need to add to move him and could potentially unload his entire cap hit. It's arguable that Roussel has a reputation that isn't favourable to allow him to play the game he wants and especially so for those that believe the league already has it in against us.

 

There's other options though like maybe trading Schaller (another defensive forward) who could be acquired for cheaper if NYI doesn't want to splurge. 

 

Whatever the case, I can't see us moving Sutter at the TDL unless some team really wants to buy him from us. I could see us exploring moving him in the offseason after hopefully he finishes out the year and has a decent playoff showing which only ups his value.

If Benning can manage to keep all of our roster players and stay under the cap, then I agree with you that our current roster is best moving forward into the playoffs.

Hope that happens, but I feel like some moves will have to be made.

Excited to see how this plays out.

[theo5789]

15 minutes ago, Tystick said:

If Benning can manage to keep all of our roster players and stay under the cap, then I agree with you that our current roster is best moving forward into the playoffs.

Hope that happens, but I feel like some moves will have to be made.

Excited to see how this plays out.

I think there will be moves, but like I said, it'll be more peripheral players like Schaller and Leivo. Roussel is about the highest that we "sell" and maybe Stecher as well (with the assumption that Tryamkin is returning and Rafferty could get a look for the time being between TDL and if Tryamkin comes over). These moves will have coverage in depth already and hopefully doesn't have too much effect on team chemistry. I'm confident that Benning has a plan in place for different scenarios and what strings to pull leading up to the TDL.

[Sweathog]

Unless it's an overpayment, I can't see the Benning moving Sutter. He's gonna want to keep him in the lineup because he needs a versatile veteran that the kids can lean on down the stretch and in the playoffs. (If we make the playoffs)

 

If we absolutely need to move Sutter because of cap reasons, imo it will happen this summer.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

11 hours ago, Provost said:

You can do both... but I haven’t seen too many signs of that level of creativity from the management group to make me thing it would happen.

 

LE for Ladd is effectively a lateral move, and puts us ahead cap wise which could be used to pick up a player like Simmonds.

 

If you can do moves that season with our cap crunch and don’t hurt us in the short term, you still do that.  Like is someone wanted Demko and was willing to take on a bad contract to get him... then we replaced him with a veteran like Miller... again, we end up no worse in the short term and way ahead in the long term.

What does a player like simmonds achieve for us? We already have ferland, leivo, and countless players on the farm that we can use internally without giving up any assets. This team is already solid and deep, adding a washed up WS does nothing for us. It’s literally making a move just to say we made a move. JB said we would stay put and work internally, i don’t understand what’s so hard to accept. 
 

any contract type move can and will be dealt with in the offseason. 
 

We have nothing close to a bad enough contract that would ever make me want to even think about trading Demko.

Edited February 14, 2020 by HorvatToBaertschi

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Tystick said:

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying.

We need cap space, so we need to move a contract.

So if they're searching for a defensive forward, Beagle, Sutter, and Eriksson are the options.

 

Schaller would net us $1,900,000 in cap space, which is not enough.

Roussel is not what they're looking for IMO, but I wouldn't be opposed to moving his contract either.

People who think we can make things work this summer without losing a roster player beyond Schaller are not looking at the arithmetic.   Schaller is out no matter what - if we can trade him for a 7th go ahead and do it.

 

Tanev, Stetcher, JV and Markstrom all need raises and or replacement....unless we sell a vet placeholder next years roster will be a downgrade from this one we can't keep them all without at least one vet traded.

[mll]

9 hours ago, DeNiro said:

 Benning will only be adding not subtracting. 
 

He doesn’t want to mess with chemistry and nor should he.

Per CapFriendly there is no cap space to add, unless they can trade a player out or the injuries are season ending and they can continue to use LTIR.  With LTIR in use the Canucks have 30'474.- in end of season cap space before bonuses - it's been stuck at that amount ever since Ferland went on LTIR.

With all the recalls and Motte, Leivo on IR rather than LTIR, they have only 215K in cap space and need to create some 3.5M to activate Ferland.

Ferland's 3.5M LTIR = Graovac 700K + MacEwen 995'833 + Bailey 700K + Brisebois 888'333 + 215'834 still available

They can't demote all to activate him given the injuries so would also need to move some IR players to LTIR.

 

Leivo 1.5M + Graovac 700K + Motte 975K = 3.175M

[Alflives]

58 minutes ago, mll said:

Per CapFriendly there is no cap space to add, unless they can trade a player out or the injuries are season ending and they can continue to use LTIR.  With LTIR in use the Canucks have 30'474.- in end of season cap space before bonuses - it's been stuck at that amount ever since Ferland went on LTIR.

With all the recalls and Motte, Leivo on IR rather than LTIR, they have only 215K in cap space and need to create some 3.5M to activate Ferland.

Ferland's 3.5M LTIR = Graovac 700K + MacEwen 995'833 + Bailey 700K + Brisebois 888'333 + 215'834 still available

They can't demote all to activate him given the injuries so would also need to move some IR players to LTIR.

 

Leivo 1.5M + Graovac 700K + Motte 975K = 3.175M

As nasty as this sounds, to help ease our cap crunch we need Loui to get injured and go on LTIR.

[mll]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

As nasty as this sounds, to help ease our cap crunch we need Loui to get injured and go on LTIR.

LTIR doesn't really allow to bank cap space so it creates bonus overages that then count against next season's cap.  Not ideal with Pettersson/Hughes still on their ELCs next season.

[BPA]

Sutter + Roussell + Demko

for

1st 2020 + Greiss (backup for this season) + Dobson and/or Wilde.

 

VAN gets back a 1st, shed cap space, and a D prospect. 

 

Yes.  Vancouver is better with Sutter but I think we can live without him and still make the playoffs. 

 

PS:  Hopefully LE does retire after his signing bonus next year.

[MattJVD]

21 hours ago, Tystick said:

We will have to move someone if we want Ferland to join the team.

$215,834. That's how much cap space we have right now.

 

So I would say a team that's searching for depth, in this case NYI, is a likely trading partner.

NYI have $18,345,802 in cap space. This is an opportunity to move Sutter, Beagle, or Eriksson.

If we don't want to take a contract back, we need to sweeten the deal with a prospect, which we have a surplus of.

 

Makes sense to me.

Lievo and Motte aren't on LTIR, just IR. So when Ferland is ready we'll just retroactively put them on LTIR and be under the cap.

[aGENT]

11 hours ago, Tystick said:

I've never claimed he isn't valuable

 

21 hours ago, Tystick said:

We can move Sutter, for example, and still be okay in the playoffs.

They're not that important for us, they play a fourth line role. 

Okie....