Ghostsof1915 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 To address the question. We go 3-8 or 4-7. We finish in the bottom 5. The schedule for the rest of March is ugly. Our only chance of wins would probably be the last 3 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 14 minutes ago, danaimo said: The Canucks finish the season in 29th position. If they get the first overall pick, take Matthews. This will be the first time in franchise history, 44 years, that they would pick first. I don't think any other team has had to wait so long to get a first overall pick. If they pick 2nd or 3rd, then try to trade down to the 5th or 6th position. There will still be some very talented, possibly elite players available and it makes sense to take advantage of other teams desperation to move up. Trading up always appears desperate, trading down appears strong. I don't expect that they will be able to trade down because it is so difficult to swing that kind of deal but who knows. Flames have never had the 1st overall, Sam Bennett (4th overall) is the flames only top 5 pick they've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Dallas comes to mind as a team that has become very good without having top draft picks. SJ is another team that hasn't had a top 5 in 15 yrs. Ducks had Bobby Ryan and Chistov (can you imagine if the Canucks picked him 5th overall)? Rangers have zilch All 4 of these teams are contenders and will likely do well in the POs this year. These teams manage to collect key pieces via later draft picks and solid trades. It looks like the Canucks will end up with an excellent player in the top 5 this draft. Knowing JB, there will be other good picks in the later rounds. The team does not have to be a perennial loser to become a contender in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowgary Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Tough schedule so I predict 2 wins, 9 losses. I expect us to be competitive for the 17/18 season and forward but see a struggling year next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 11 hours ago, Crabcakes said: Some teams bottom out and reach the SC in 5 years like you say. While others do not. There's no telling how high a certain group will peak. What is really the factor that brings a team to the highest level is management in terms of vision and the ability to execute that vision. Is Canuck management that good? Since most of the knuckle heads in the media (Friedman, Sekeres, Pratt) don't understand what is going on, I am reassured. I would suggest that Canuck management is thinking and acting at a higher level than these shallow thinkers and article skimmers are capable. Sure, success and confounding the media are not necessarily one in the same but it has got to be half of the battle. It could indeed go either way. I was merely pointing out the upside version as a counter to the negative view which was being presented. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The twins could be easily traded if they really wanted to by eating 50% of their salaries the rest of the way. Then a team would only need 7m in cap space for both. It would take a great return to eat that much salary though and the canucks shouldn't be a max cap team during the rebuilding years anyways so retaining that much salary wouldn't hurt our cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 minutes ago, FireGillis said: The twins could be easily traded if they really wanted to by eating 50% of their salaries the rest of the way. Then a team would only need 7m in cap space for both. It would take a great return to eat that much salary though and the canucks shouldn't be a max cap team during the rebuilding years anyways so retaining that much salary wouldn't hurt our cap. Most contending teams are close to the cap and may not have &m to spare. Canucks would want pick/prospect in return and would not take a cap dump along with retaining 50% of Sedins. A contender that would be able to make this trade would be few and far between, but as you say, it would be entirely up to the twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireGillis Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Most contending teams are close to the cap and may not have &m to spare. Canucks would want pick/prospect in return and would not take a cap dump along with retaining 50% of Sedins. A contender that would be able to make this trade would be few and far between, but as you say, it would be entirely up to the twins. True, it would be hard for a current contending team to make it work. Would probably need an up and coming team with more cap space that would want the twins to turn them into contenders. However, the pens managed to fit kessel in at 6.8m after the leafs retained 1.2m. That's basically the cap hit of the sedins at 50%, so it may be possible for a contending team to find room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Most contending teams are close to the cap and may not have &m to spare. Canucks would want pick/prospect in return and would not take a cap dump along with retaining 50% of Sedins. A contender that would be able to make this trade would be few and far between, but as you say, it would be entirely up to the twins. And also consider where most contending teams are picking every year. Its far from a top 10 pick. Now we’d have to convince the Sedins to go (NMC) and FA to eat 7 million a year on players (who no longer play for us) without getting a top end draft pick coming back. Zero chance ownership accepts that without having a future corner stone piece coming back. It’s not like they are a burden on this team. The idea of moving them is so quickly shot down as soon as someone logically tries to determine how it would work. NMC, Team, cap hits, possible return. And again, add in expansion draft. Are teams really going pay top value for a player they might lose in a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGM Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 On 2016-03-20 at 9:36 AM, Devon Jade said: Let's hope Jim Benning pulls off a Brian Burke-calibre trade. I'll be happy with either a Matthews+Tkatchuk or Laine+Puljujarvi combo. they look like children,.. draft a MAN. chychrun is 214 pounds allready.. YES PLEASE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 3 hours ago, TheNewGM said: they look like children,.. draft a MAN. chychrun is 214 pounds allready.. YES PLEASE Matthews & Chychrun. Only 5pts from the bottom. Of course, the Leafs are in the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apricot Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 On 3/20/2016 at 9:36 AM, Devon Jade said: Let's hope Jim Benning pulls off a Brian Burke-calibre trade. I'll be happy with either a Matthews+Tkatchuk or Laine+Puljujarvi combo. Looks like Daniel is upset cause he can't get rid of Henrik, and Henrik super happy cause he's sticking with his bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesB Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 On 3/20/2016 at 9:38 AM, cuporbust said: It's not even 50 for last place. It's 20 Yes, last place gives that team a 20% chance at getting the first pick but the last place team has a slightly better than 50% chance of getting one of the three lottery picks. (More precisely, I have the odds at about 52% for getting one of the top 3 picks for the last place team.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Tomorrow is a big game. Need to give WPG the points. Then we can win one against a good team for the moral victory. Last 3 games of the season will be brutal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 3 points from dead last. I'll take a 20% chance of drafting Matthews tank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Spector Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 21 hours ago, higgyfan said: Dallas comes to mind as a team that has become very good without having top draft picks. SJ is another team that hasn't had a top 5 in 15 yrs. Ducks had Bobby Ryan and Chistov (can you imagine if the Canucks picked him 5th overall)? Rangers have zilch All 4 of these teams are contenders and will likely do well in the POs this year. These teams manage to collect key pieces via later draft picks and solid trades. It looks like the Canucks will end up with an excellent player in the top 5 this draft. Knowing JB, there will be other good picks in the later rounds. The team does not have to be a perennial loser to become a contender in the future. Thank God someone else gets it. Me and Deb can stop drinking now!! Add Detriot to that list. They used to draft franchise players in the 6th round. They've never had a top 5 pick since 1990 and yet they compete every year and haven't missed the playoffs in 25 years since that same year, 1990. And since 1990 they've been in the Stanley Cup final SIX times and have won FOUR Cups. All without a top 5 pick. Go figure.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 21 hours ago, higgyfan said: Dallas comes to mind as a team that has become very good without having top draft picks. SJ is another team that hasn't had a top 5 in 15 yrs. Ducks had Bobby Ryan and Chistov (can you imagine if the Canucks picked him 5th overall)? Rangers have zilch All 4 of these teams are contenders and will likely do well in the POs this year. These teams manage to collect key pieces via later draft picks and solid trades. It looks like the Canucks will end up with an excellent player in the top 5 this draft. Knowing JB, there will be other good picks in the later rounds. The team does not have to be a perennial loser to become a contender in the future. SJ? Thornton #1 overall Marleau #2 overall saids hi sure Thornton wasn't drafted by them but he still a #1 overall that was traded during his peak and they've been the backbone of the team till Pavelski took over.. Ducks they straight up lucked out on Perry and Getzlaf.. how many players drafted in the late 20s became bonifide NHL superstar? Rangers have been a decent team behind Lundqvist.. but they started to have great regular season after rick nash.. (his playoff sucks but u can't deny his regular season stats) they've been a 3rd-4th place team in the division till 2011-2012 and onward Dallas.. they have Seguin #2 overall.. Spezza #2 overall sure you don't necessary have to draft up there.. u can always make trades to get them.. but to get something of value you have to give up value.. and those top end players usually don't become available in the trade market.. and if they do.. they usually coz an arm and a leg to get which we don't have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Harvey Spector said: Thank God someone else gets it. Me and Deb can stop drinking now!! Add Detriot to that list. They used to draft franchise players in the 6th round. They've never had a top 5 pick since 1990 and yet they compete every year and haven't missed the playoffs in 25 years since that same year, 1990. And since 1990 they've been in the Stanley Cup final SIX times and have won FOUR Cups. All without a top 5 pick. Go figure.... You can dwell on Detroit all you like but they are an exception. What the WIngs did with their drafting was in an era where 'boots on the ground' counted for a lot. Many NHL teams, like the Canucks, did not spend that kind of money. That era has kinda ended as most teams are much better scouting and evaluation. Quality drafting is the backbone of any serious CUP contender IMHO. The higher the picks the safer that option becomes. I totally agree that the best option is to integrate these draft picks into an org that can develop their talent in a manner that eventually sees them play in the NHL. There are no guarantees and some of these players will not make it. As much as team success is about skills and prospect depth it is also about culture. IMO Benning/Linden have a good handle in what it takes to create a winning atmosphere. Anyone who thinks this rebuild can happen without struggle and yes losses really don't have a clear idea what it takes. So I am a 'tanker' but I do not think a single top pick will be the savior of the Canucks. I am sure that Vancouver will hit some home runs as their prospect pool deepens. The development time line of this current roster suggests that next year will be another tough go. Canucks could easily be drafting in the top 5 next year as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 54 minutes ago, Harvey Spector said: Thank God someone else gets it. Me and Deb can stop drinking now!! Add Detriot to that list. They used to draft franchise players in the 6th round. They've never had a top 5 pick since 1990 and yet they compete every year and haven't missed the playoffs in 25 years since that same year, 1990. And since 1990 they've been in the Stanley Cup final SIX times and have won FOUR Cups. All without a top 5 pick. Go figure.... So one team in history has won a cup without a top 5 pick....and this makes your case? We need top 5 talent and tanking is easiest, and possibly, the only way we can get it. Nobody thinks we should or need to be tanking for years to come. We need to tank this year because, thanks to circumstance, it is right there in our grasp and we must not pass up this opportunity. We can go back to winning next season. That is what Tank Nation is all about. Now go pour yourself another drink! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 25 minutes ago, clam linguine said: So one team in history has won a cup without a top 5 pick....and this makes your case? We need top 5 talent and tanking is easiest, and possibly, the only way we can get it. Nobody thinks we should or need to be tanking for years to come. We need to tank this year because, thanks to circumstance, it is right there in our grasp and we must not pass up this opportunity. We can go back to winning next season. That is what Tank Nation is all about. Now go pour yourself another drink! You're simplifying success down to much. It's has so very little to do with top 5 vs non top 5 pick. And this argument has been done over and over. First off people have to realize the understanding of X in 2006 does not = X in 2007. A 3rd overall does not have the same value every year. It fluctuates greatly unless you are going to say Toews and Barker are at the same level. Since X does not = X , the solution to winning a cup cannot be having X, as the value of X is never the same. X in 2006 might have translated into helping a team win a cup but X in 2009 has translated into 0 playoff games. Also just because the majority of evidence shows us that most birds fly, doesn’t mean the statement that birds fly is true. Not all birds do fly, just as not all top 5 picks win a cup (less than 10% do), therefor the statement that we “Need” a top 5 pick hold about as much value as saying we need 3 players that have the letter A in their last names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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