Maddogy Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 46 minutes ago, joe-max said: Not saying that it is an entirely useless stat nor that OJ is fully developed and doesn't still need to adjust/improve, but if you look at some of the league's worst +/-stats from last year, the company is not too bad: - Ristolainen -41 - Doughty -34 - Malkin - 25 - Hoffman - 24 - Laine - 24 Or this season so far: - Burns -20 - Gardiner - 17 - Labanc -17 - Kessel - 16 - Green -15 - Subba - 15 - Hanifin -14 I will reserve judgement until Olli is given the chance to partner with Tanev. I have not watched Olli play, so I don't know what his D game is like. Is his foot speed slow? Does he have trouble positioning his body for board play? How is his gap control? How is his stick checking? Does he exhibit high D zone IQ or does he make dumb plays like a lot of young D's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Back & knee?..you get banged up in these areas, makes a guy reluctant to jump into the fray. To play solid, hard nosed D, one must have complete faith in their health, I'd imagine. He really needs a few months of durability(touch wood). It's hard for us to gauge this young player, until he gets there first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tre Mac Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, joe-max said: Not saying that it is an entirely useless stat nor that OJ is fully developed and doesn't still need to adjust/improve, but if you look at some of the league's worst +/-stats from last year, the company is not too bad: - Ristolainen -41 - Doughty -34 - Malkin - 25 - Hoffman - 24 - Laine - 24 Or this season so far: - Burns -20 - Gardiner - 17 - Labanc -17 - Kessel - 16 - Green -15 - Subba - 15 - Hanifin -14 The bolded players are pretty notorious for bad defending so this is where +/- holds some merit. 31 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Back & knee?..you get banged up in these areas, makes a guy reluctant to jump into the fray. To play solid, hard nosed D, one must have complete faith in their health, I'd imagine. He really needs a few months of durability(touch wood). It's hard for us to gauge this young player, until he gets there first. Ian Macintyre said the same thing during a Canuck broadcast and it sounds so creepy. It's knock on wood - I don't care what the internet says. Quote Knocking on wood, also touch wood, is an apotropaic tradition of literally touching, tapping, or knocking on wood, or merely stating that one is doing or intending to do so, in order to avoid "tempting fate" after making a favorable prediction or boast, or a declaration concerning one's own death or another unfavorable ... Quote In many cultures, it’s a common superstition for people to knock their knuckles on a piece of wood to bring themselves good fortune or ward off bad luck. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 On 12/7/2019 at 3:22 PM, Fred65 said: Try and keep in mind of the 950+ players in the AHL, Juolevi ranks 883 for his +/- Now I understand the frailties of the +/- ranking stat but in the broadest of terms being 883 is not some thing to boast about. Opposing coaches must relish the thought of getting their top line out against OJ. If he's that far down the list in the AHL where would he rank if he played in the NHL? Weak Fred, really weak. How many games has OJ played in the AHL? 18 last year, injures and what 16 games so far this season. You also spin the details to first your narrative to make it seem worse than it really is. I could easily frame it as positive, 'in the first 16 games this season after recovering from season ending knee surgery Olli Juolevi is already showing he is paying more attention to his play without the puck and his Minus is half of his total at the same point last year ' See Fred spinning is easy. The difference is one of us is honest about it. Plus minus is a team stat, it can only be effective in large sample sizes over a number of seasons to be an indicator of a players effectiveness with or without the puck when combined with advanced stats like Corsi. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Maddogy said: I will reserve judgement until Olli is given the chance to partner with Tanev. I have not watched Olli play, so I don't know what his D game is like. Is his foot speed slow? Does he have trouble positioning his body for board play? How is his gap control? How is his stick checking? Does he exhibit high D zone IQ or does he make dumb plays like a lot of young D's? ...see page 1 through 645.... OK seriously we haven't seen a fully healthy Oli so no-one knows.... Edited December 10, 2019 by Rollieo Del Fuego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) That’s why the NHL top 100 seasons player plus minus are all hall of Famers. Bobby Orr’s +124 in 70-71 season, Larry Robinson’s +120 76-77 season, Wayne Gretzky +100 84-85 season are just BS stats that don’t say much about how good player are. And it’s funny how crappy players have huge minuses. Yay plus minus means nothing ( sarcasm ) https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/records/best-plus-minus-in-one-season-by-nhl-players.html also a Team season goals for and goals against means nothing according to some...it can’t possibly have any effect on how good or bad a team is. ( again........sarcasm ) Edited December 10, 2019 by HockeyHarry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) Considering the horrible injury he took last year,making this year more or less still his first season of Pro hockey in NA, and the fact that his injuries may very well have been affecting his mobility, and I think it's pretty damn stupid to use his poor +/- right now as an indication that he's never going to make it. Another thing to consider is the fact that, up until he reached Utica, his +/- had never been an issue. It was stellar throughout junior and remained good during his season in liiga. It's not like this is some sort of trend that's followed him his entire career. Edited December 10, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) So a bad plus minus means your teammates suck and your goalie sucks but Your awesome and it’s never your fault it’s everyone else’s fault. good players even out the plus minus over the seasons ups and downs. But if it doesn’t even out that player is a Defensive liability. Edited December 10, 2019 by HockeyHarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, HockeyHarry said: So a bad plus minus means your teammates suck and your goalie sucks but Your awesome and it’s never your fault it’s everyone else’s fault. good players even out the plus minus over the seasons ups and downs. But if it doesn’t even out that player is a Defensive liability. Well Utica was pretty was last year and streaky this year. I wouldn't look too much into it atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, HockeyHarry said: So a bad plus minus means your teammates suck and your goalie sucks but Your awesome and it’s never your fault it’s everyone else’s fault. The laziest stat in hockey... https://thehockeywriters.com/plusminus-the-laziest-stat-in-hockey/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, higgyfan said: The laziest stat in hockey... https://thehockeywriters.com/plusminus-the-laziest-stat-in-hockey/ I read it and I disagree. I think with instant replay and watching each goal too see who’s at fault is fine but in the End it’s still your fault or Coaches for the bad line combo. I also disagree with the article about PP plus minus. $&!# happens on the ice and the other team scores but after 80+ games if your still in the minus then that player is a liability ,or your teammates and Coaches combos truely suck and you don’t help the cause. i think it’s lazy to disagree with plus minus over a season Edited December 10, 2019 by HockeyHarry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Again, he's been injured, he's only played a handful of pro-hockey games in NA, and his bad plus minus is a fairly new occurrence, which just happens to coincide with his injuries woes and his introduction to pro-hockey in NA. Maybe y'all should calm your tits and just allow him time to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) OJ plus minus will be fine in a full season and it should even out....he’s had no real long stretches to gain a rhythm. But his plus minus should be watched. Edited December 10, 2019 by HockeyHarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: Again, he's been injured, he's only played a handful of pro-hockey games in NA, and his bad plus minus is a fairly new occurrence, which just happens to coincide with his injuries woes and his introduction to pro-hockey in NA. Maybe y'all should calm your tits and just allow him time to develop. He had the league's worst plus minus at a point last year before his injury. It is not a fairly new occurence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Ihatetomatoes said: He had the league's worst plus minus at a point last year before his injury. It is not a fairly new occurence. Hughes has made Juolevi expendable. Perhaps Juolevi turns it around. Or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Junkyard Dog Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Me_ said: Hughes has made Juolevi expendable. Perhaps Juolevi turns it around. Or not. I don't think so. If you look at how old everyone else is on our blueline we need as much young promising D as we can get in our system. 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Ihatetomatoes said: He had the league's worst plus minus at a point last year before his injury. It is not a fairly new occurence. Simply looking at the timeframe and not the number of games played is being intellectually dishonest. He only played 18 games last year before being sidelined with a potentially career threatening injury. He's only played a combined 34 games total at the AHL level, with equates to less than half of a full season. Even then, going back to his days in junior and in liiga, his +/- has always been solid. Edited December 10, 2019 by 48MPHSlapShot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpn1 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 As I watched the game I thought OJ looked strong on both sides of the puck. He seems so poised out there and I think that once he is able to play without thinking about being hurt he could very well be ready to take the next step in his pro career and playing for Vancouver. I think his +/- is effected by the fact that he plays Power Play and Penalty Kills along with playing against teams 1st & 2nd lines. I am not worried. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Maddogy said: I will reserve judgement until Olli is given the chance to partner with Tanev. I have not watched Olli play, so I don't know what his D game is like. Is his foot speed slow? Does he have trouble positioning his body for board play? How is his gap control? How is his stick checking? Does he exhibit high D zone IQ or does he make dumb plays like a lot of young D's? Follow this fella , he posts a lot of vids on Canuck prospects Edited December 10, 2019 by SilentSam 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post theo5789 Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, SilentSam said: Follow this fella , he posts a lot of vids on Canuck prospects Who cares about all this? What was his +/- for the night? Only stat worth watching. Edited December 10, 2019 by theo5789 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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