Olli Juolevi | #48 | D

[Ray_Cathode]

59 minutes ago, stawns said:

OJ has played very very well in Utica, why so down on him?

Why do you think he has played well, have you watched him? I’ve watched almost all of his games for the past two seasons. In my opinion, he has been outplayed by both Rafferty and Brisebois. His defensive play was better this year than last year, but his offence fell off.  I have also discussed the fact that he has not been fit now for two seasons, and off season medical treatment has affected his preparation now for three years in a row - making it difficult to decide if his level of fitness has prevented us from seeing the kid we saw in his first pro year in Finland and at the world junior, or if this is the new normal. I disagree that he has played very well in Utica, he has been adequate and adequate is not good enough for a team (the Canucks) that hopes to be a contender.  
 

If this long layoff grants him the opportunity to get healthier, stronger and more resilient - maybe we’ll have a player - I’d like to think so, but I don’t see anything exceptional so far in his defensive play and I don’t see him as an exceptional offensive player. He makes good outlet passes and sees the game fairly well.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong (or even better, if health and fitness are the issue) that he fulfill his once bright potential. He’s still young, and lots of defensive prospects take a few years to make the NHL.

[Ray_Cathode]

Just now, wildcam said:

I still feel Juolevi  22, 6'3 will be a #3 D man in the NHL..We must remember he has injuries the last 3 seasons..Last season 2018 -2019 he only played 17 games with knee injury.. This season he missed 15 games and then Covid -19..

I feel Juolevi  will be very close to making lineup this October, for sure call ups..

To make the Canucks, if we retain the current roster, he will have to displace someone. We will probably carry seven D again. If everyone re-signs it will be:

1: Hughes

2: Edler

3: Tanev

4: Myers

5: Stetcher

6: Fantenburg 

7: Benn

Rafferty

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Rathbone

 

Who on that list is he better than (if we retain them all)? Well, maybe Benn.  I watched both Juolevi and Fantenburg in Utica when Fantenburg was sent there to get healthy. Fantenburg was clearly better. I’ve watched Rafferty and Juolevi playing at the same time in Utica - Rafferty is way better. Brisebois is much better defensively (+21 vs -8) in similar roles - Juolevi had more points, but then he played second unit pp, Rafferty was the first unit guy). Tryamkin is certainly better. Rathbone is an unknown factor at a higher level - but watching how Rafferty adjusted, and Rathbone was probably better in college than Rafferty, one has to think he will likely do well. The player that Juolevi was this past year in Utica won’t make the Canucks - if he comes back fitter and stronger, then that would be great. If Benn is traded, Tanev and Stetcher are not re-signed, then we have a major problem, Green likes his D to play on their natural side. We would only have Myers, barring a trade does that put Rafferty on the team? Tryamkin and Rathbone have both played both sides. Where does that leave Juolevi if Fantenburg has outplayed him in Utica? Left D is Hughes, Edler, and Tryamkin? I don’t think it would be good for Juolevi to play as the seventh D - because of hi# injuries, he needs to play - that would mean Utica with maybe the odd call up. If we keep Stetcher and/or Tanev... it becomes even tougher.

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Why do you think he has played well, have you watched him? I’ve watched almost all of his games for the past two seasons. In my opinion, he has been outplayed by both Rafferty and Brisebois. His defensive play was better this year than last year, but his offence fell off.  I have also discussed the fact that he has not been fit now for two seasons, and off season medical treatment has affected his preparation now for three years in a row - making it difficult to decide if his level of fitness has prevented us from seeing the kid we saw in his first pro year in Finland and at the world junior, or if this is the new normal. I disagree that he has played very well in Utica, he has been adequate and adequate is not good enough for a team (the Canucks) that hopes to be a contender.  
 

If this long layoff grants him the opportunity to get healthier, stronger and more resilient - maybe we’ll have a player - I’d like to think so, but I don’t see anything exceptional so far in his defensive play and I don’t see him as an exceptional offensive player. He makes good outlet passes and sees the game fairly well.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong (or even better, if health and fitness are the issue) that he fulfill his once bright potential. He’s still young, and lots of defensive prospects take a few years to make the NHL.

We'll both Rafferty and Brisebois have played a lot more hockey than OJ, so of course they'll outplay them........both Breezer and Rafferty are going to be solid NHL'ers.

 

I've watched plenty of OJ, he looks solid to me, I have no concerns outside of injuries 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 4/7/2020 at 5:40 PM, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I’d say in general, yes. When you look at the average projections people are putting on Rathbone, versus Juolevi, Jack has probably moved ahead of Olli. Lots of people see Rathbone as a future middle pair D who can run a power play. And at this point, quite a few people think we break even if we can just get a depth NHL player out of Juolevi.

Now personally, I haven’t soured on OJ as much as some, but I do see quite a few people with opinions I respect who say it’s maybe 50/50 at this point that Juolevi ever achieves any kind of career in the NHL. Whereas Rathbone is the prospect that Benning gets asked about the most by other GMs (as far as a trade target), and is generally viewed as a player on the rise who has a legitimate shot of being a very good young NHL player.

 

Of course, a lot can change once a player goes pro and actually gets tested at that level. Prospects are magic beans. It’s easy to get excited about potential.

 

It’s much less exciting to watch a player slowly pay his dues, make incremental progress, while finding his way back from some challenging injuries. Juolevi’s stock has taken a beating over recent years. But we really haven’t had a chance to see him fully healthy as a professional nor see him given the opportunity to really show his best qualities over any period of length in the pros.
 

Hopefully next year, he finally gets a chance to really show his abilities, and can force his way back into the conversation as an exciting young defenseman primed for a major role in this organization. It’s getting to be make or break time for Olli, but I’m still a believer.

 

As for Rathbone, I’m about as high on him as I’ve always been. I really believe he’s gonna be an excellent NHL player (hopefully for the Canucks).

Rafferty is faster, in agility & speed. Not sure he is as composed. Not that Juolevi is stout defensively? He looks better defensively to me.

 

Jack shoots better than both.

 

Guess we'll see? 

[NexusRift]

I know the consensus among most in here figure OJ's days are numbered, but not me. Injuries aside, I truly believe he'll be a stud for us. A perfect compliment to our current D corp. Though I still think we need D depth if we're to succeed in any playoffs.

[wildcam]

13 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

To make the Canucks, if we retain the current roster, he will have to displace someone. We will probably carry seven D again. If everyone re-signs it will be:

1: Hughes

2: Edler

3: Tanev

4: Myers

5: Stetcher

6: Fantenburg 

7: Benn

Rafferty

Tryamkin

Brisebois

Rathbone

 

Who on that list is he better than (if we retain them all)? Well, maybe Benn.  I watched both Juolevi and Fantenburg in Utica when Fantenburg was sent there to get healthy. Fantenburg was clearly better. I’ve watched Rafferty and Juolevi playing at the same time in Utica - Rafferty is way better. Brisebois is much better defensively (+21 vs -8) in similar roles - Juolevi had more points, but then he played second unit pp, Rafferty was the first unit guy). Tryamkin is certainly better. Rathbone is an unknown factor at a higher level - but watching how Rafferty adjusted, and Rathbone was probably better in college than Rafferty, one has to think he will likely do well. The player that Juolevi was this past year in Utica won’t make the Canucks - if he comes back fitter and stronger, then that would be great. If Benn is traded, Tanev and Stetcher are not re-signed, then we have a major problem, Green likes his D to play on their natural side. We would only have Myers, barring a trade does that put Rafferty on the team? Tryamkin and Rathbone have both played both sides. Where does that leave Juolevi if Fantenburg has outplayed him in Utica? Left D is Hughes, Edler, and Tryamkin? I don’t think it would be good for Juolevi to play as the seventh D - because of hi# injuries, he needs to play - that would mean Utica with maybe the odd call up. If we keep Stetcher and/or Tanev... it becomes even tougher.

Hello, Like your post you must live in Utica? people still have to remember injuries have really slowed his development the last 3 years..

Only played 17 games last season? Hurt again this season and then Covid -19 -- 

You have Tryamkin  in Vancouver next season??? Not sure that will happen? 

Tanev 30 UFA this summer will want at least 4.5 million x 4 years? He is very valuable but always hurt, need to move away from Tanev.

I would like to see Jim trade for a top end D man, solid guy under 27 plays a complete game and would fit with Hughes and both guys log 21 -23 mins..

Hope Edler 34 years old is a big part of the D core and avg 23 mins per game.

Stetcher - RFA will want at least 2.8 million x 4 yrs ? I think Rafferty could fill his 15 - 17 mins per game # 5 spot.and only $750,000....

To get a top end D man will have to trade a top 4 forward...Boser possible if Taffoli is signed,,,,

 

We will not have extra money to go sign a top end D man in fee agency ...

Lots of players to sign, Markstrom, Virtanen, Taffoli, Motte, MacEwen, Lievo ( Tanev ??) ( Stetcher ? )

Could also be a cap buyout and that would really help signing players?Even 2 buyouts,  No Erickson and  his 6 million against the cap. Luongo 3 mil x 3 yrs? 

Going to be a very interesting and exciting summer..

Edited May 2, 2020 by wildcam

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, NexusRift said:

I know the consensus among most in here figure OJ's days are numbered, but not me. Injuries aside, I truly believe he'll be a stud for us. A perfect compliment to our current D corp. Though I still think we need D depth if we're to succeed in any playoffs.

As do I, top 3 dman

[Fred65]

If we take for gospel the view that Fatenberg is better then Juolevi it doesn't look good. We've all seen Fatenberg in Vcr, he does have value at his salary but not a future core player. From the posts I've read of Ray's he pretty even keeled  with his assessments. Which ever way it goes JB is going to get it in the neck from the impulsive fans 

[Ray_Cathode]

10 hours ago, wildcam said:

Hello, Like your post you must live in Utica? people still have to remember injuries have really slowed his development the last 3 years..

Only played 17 games last season? Hurt again this season and then Covid -19 -- 

You have Tryamkin  in Vancouver next season??? Not sure that will happen? 

Tanev 30 UFA this summer will want at least 4.5 million x 4 years? He is very valuable but always hurt, need to move away from Tanev.

I would like to see Jim trade for a top end D man, solid guy under 27 plays a complete game and would fit with Hughes and both guys log 21 -23 mins..

Hope Edler 34 years old is a big part of the D core and avg 23 mins per game.

Stetcher - RFA will want at least 2.8 million x 4 yrs ? I think Rafferty could fill his 15 - 17 mins per game # 5 spot.and only $750,000....

To get a top end D man will have to trade a top 4 forward...Boser possible if Taffoli is signed,,,,

 

We will not have extra money to go sign a top end D man in fee agency ...

Lots of players to sign, Markstrom, Virtanen, Taffoli, Motte, MacEwen, Lievo ( Tanev ??) ( Stetcher ? )

Could also be a cap buyout and that would really help signing players?Even 2 buyouts,  No Erickson and  his 6 million against the cap. Luongo 3 mil x 3 yrs? 

Going to be a very interesting and exciting summer..

Nope, live in Abbotsford, I just subscribe to AHLTV or whatever it’s called. The video is not the best quality, but one does get the broad strokes. 
 

Nope, not sure Tryamkin will sign, but I think Benning likes him if he can fit him in the budget - Tryamkin definitely brings an element we don’t have - an element really appreciated if we are to control some of the bigger players in the West. Tanev changed his equipment a lot for the 2019/20 season and he had a much healthier year - don’t know if that is only correlation or causal - but if better protective gear is the reason, then he could expected to not only play more but play more to his top end more of the time. He is very often a very underrated player - I hope we can keep him. I also like Stetcher, a local boy that gives you everything he’s got every game, but (oh my the is a big three letter word) I think the skilled bigger guy, Rafferty, or the bigger, bruiser Tryamkin May better serve our needs. But Tryamkin also plays the left side so he could replace a left side D (Benn, Fantenburg), but then no Juolevi except for long term injury or call-up. 
 

I’ve really like Rafferty ever since his first two games with the Canucks last year. Even last year it was evident that offensively, at least, he had an NHL game. For the coming season, he will also command an NHL salary no matter where he plays - it would seem his AHL play of this season should at least gain him a long look in the coming season. One caveat though, as I recall, Rafferty has limited vision in one eye - that could make him more vulnerable to getting hit. He took a big hit last year near his own net that he did not appear to see coming - that caused him to miss a few games and cost him the scoring lead among AHL defencemen and it took him a while to get his form back. Other than that, this guy made some spectacular plays last year - there aren’t many defencemen in any pro league that can go end to end or near enough: 

 

[theo5789]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

If we take for gospel the view that Fatenberg is better then Juolevi it doesn't look good. We've all seen Fatenberg in Vcr, he does have value at his salary but not a future core player. From the posts I've read of Ray's he pretty even keeled  with his assessments. Which ever way it goes JB is going to get it in the neck from the impulsive fans 

Who is saying Fantenberg is better than Juolevi and based on what merit?

[MrCanuck94]

On 5/1/2020 at 7:14 PM, Ray_Cathode said:

Why do you think he has played well, have you watched him? I’ve watched almost all of his games for the past two seasons. In my opinion, he has been outplayed by both Rafferty and Brisebois. His defensive play was better this year than last year, but his offence fell off.  I have also discussed the fact that he has not been fit now for two seasons, and off season medical treatment has affected his preparation now for three years in a row - making it difficult to decide if his level of fitness has prevented us from seeing the kid we saw in his first pro year in Finland and at the world junior, or if this is the new normal. I disagree that he has played very well in Utica, he has been adequate and adequate is not good enough for a team (the Canucks) that hopes to be a contender.  
 

If this long layoff grants him the opportunity to get healthier, stronger and more resilient - maybe we’ll have a player - I’d like to think so, but I don’t see anything exceptional so far in his defensive play and I don’t see him as an exceptional offensive player. He makes good outlet passes and sees the game fairly well.

 

Of course, I’d love to be proven wrong (or even better, if health and fitness are the issue) that he fulfill his once bright potential. He’s still young, and lots of defensive prospects take a few years to make the NHL.

For sure with major injuries like the ones Olli has had it takes a long time to become fully healthy again, and he's likely getting closer to 100% now. This break in play is also a blessing for the kid to get some rest. From what I've read and the few clips I've seen and what RJ has had to say, he's improved from his past season.

 

Playing high minutes, second PP unit and first unit PK, sounds like he's progressing well and likely getting groomed for the same role in the future for the big club.

 

Olli is 22 next season. Brisebois is 23, Rafferty is 25 and Tryamkin is 26. He is still young and has more time to grow into his ceiling whereas the others are closer to or already at what they will be. Therefore for me, Rathbone is the only defensive prospect at or ahead of Juolevi.

[WeneedLumme]

8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Who is saying Fantenberg is better than Juolevi and based on what merit?

One poster, based on the two games when Fanta and OJ  were both playing for the Comets early this season. According to that poster, in those two games, apparently 28 year old Fanta with 100 NHL games experience, looked better than 21 year old OJ did when playing his first games in many months after coming back from injury/surgery.

 

IMO, given the context, anybody who would take that expressed opinion as a serious indication of their comparative future values to the team, let alone as "gospel", is a simpleton.

[Fred65]

13 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Who is saying Fantenberg is better than Juolevi and based on what merit?

Quote

 I watched both Juolevi and Fantenburg in Utica when Fantenburg was sent there to get healthy. Fantenburg was clearly better.

This from a Utica fan, Ray=Cathode, who frankly as a rule sticks to facts rather than speculate. It's interesting as he likely one of the few posters on here that actually watched these guy simultaneously. Fantenburg is likely as good as you can expect for a 5-6 D. 

[DeNiro]

15 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This from a Utica fan, Ray=Cathode, who frankly as a rule sticks to facts rather than speculate. It's interesting as he likely one of the few posters on here that actually watched these guy simultaneously. Fantenburg is likely as good as you can expect for a 5-6 D. 

I would hope a 28 year old who has played more than 100 games in the NHL would look better than a 21 year old with no NHL experience.

 

That doesn’t really mean much though. Biega would probably look better than some of our best D prospects, does that mean he’s always going to be a better player? Not likely.

[Fanuck]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

This from a Utica fan, Ray=Cathode, who frankly as a rule sticks to facts rather than speculate. It's interesting as he likely one of the few posters on here that actually watched these guy simultaneously. Fantenburg is likely as good as you can expect for a 5-6 D. 

Ryan Johnson says he's happy with OJ's development this season. 

Quite frankly, I'd take his assessment over ANYONE on CDC no mater how closely they say they watch the prospects.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/canucks-central-at-noon/ryan-johnson-talks-lind-juolevi-development-baertschi-goldobins-positive-attitude-remaining-patient/

 

[MrCanuck94]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

This from a Utica fan, Ray=Cathode, who frankly as a rule sticks to facts rather than speculate. It's interesting as he likely one of the few posters on here that actually watched these guy simultaneously. Fantenburg is likely as good as you can expect for a 5-6 D. 

It's not fact, it's an opinion as even Ray stated himself. It is good to have his input but it is good to look at other inputs and contextual circumstances as well instead of using one POV to push an agenda.

[Canuck Surfer]

19 hours ago, Ray_Cathode said:

Tanev changed his equipment a lot for the 2019/20 season and he had a much healthier year - don’t know if that is only correlation or causal - but if better protective gear is the reason, then he could expected to not only play more but play more to his top end more of the time.

This is interesting about Tanev?

 

I presumed, and my observation was he gets squished a lot less with Hughes as the primary puck retriever. As much as Tanev is fast. QH offering the lightning quickness to get to pucks untouched. Get it & get it out! Rather than absorb the punishment Chris did retrieving pucks. 

 

I wonder what his blocked shot total was; down? My other observation is he spent a lot more time up ice, with Quinn having either retrieved, or even lugging it up himself. Greatly reducing blocked shots. We also got to see some offence. Hughes even calling Tanev under rated offensively?

 

Less shoulder and rib problems from absorbing punishing hits from fore checking forwards. Less fractured legs, swollen skate feet, bone bruising and battering from pucks fearlessly using his body to get in front of.  Less errant sticks and pucks breaking his teeth, or concussing in front of the net. 

 

I thought a great deal of his health was related to being partnered with Quinn  Hughes.  

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Ryan Johnson says he's happy with OJ's development this season. 

Quite frankly, I'd take his assessment over ANYONE on CDC no mater how closely they say they watch the prospects.

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/canucks-central-at-noon/ryan-johnson-talks-lind-juolevi-development-baertschi-goldobins-positive-attitude-remaining-patient/

 

Holy cow! You got real credit; 

 

@aGENT is usually the most liberal  beer provider on CDC. Happy to shout any & everyone a glug for participation in a thread. But tongue in cheek. Usually actually hinting guys just drink too much when they comment... 

 

Praise indeed!  

[Boudrias]

18 hours ago, DeNiro said:

I would hope a 28 year old who has played more than 100 games in the NHL would look better than a 21 year old with no NHL experience.

 

That doesn’t really mean much though. Biega would probably look better than some of our best D prospects, does that mean he’s always going to be a better player? Not likely.

Not only that but a 21 year old Joulevi who was coming back from a year of injury. Last year Joulevi's challenge was getting a solid number of games under his belt and building from there. It appeared he was handled carefully during that process. Very disappointing the season was cut short especially since Utica was playoff bound. A lost opportunity for OJ. 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Really excited to see him next training camp and see how a healthy Olli will look like.  

 

I was a huge fan before he was drafted and really wanted him over Tkachuk, still think he is a super smart player and capable of making a difference for this team.