[Rumour] Puljujarvi to play in Finland until he is traded

[higgyfan]

27 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I'm not sure Edmonton has time to doddle around - sending messages to prospects they can't develop - or whether they have the track-record/credibility to call it a 'stunt' when a young player wants out.   This would be the rare occassion where I'd understand, if not support, the resolve of the player.

Additionally - Goldobin represents potential production NOW - at a position where Edmonton, remarkably, has been unable to find production - alongside the likes of McD and Draisaitl.  So Goldiobin's age, imo, aint a factor - and they could do worse - and in fact have done worse, with a 1st overall....that is their track record, and just the tip of the iceberg, really.

Question ON:  How long before JP becomes a ufa if he plays this season in Europe?  Thx in advance.

[Monty]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

Question ON:  How long before JP becomes a ufa if he plays this season in Europe?  Thx in advance.

Well, the Oilers have qualified him, so he’s still their property. As long as they keep him qualified, I believe it’s either until he’s 25 or 27 (probably 27).

[Me_]

13 hours ago, Provost said:

Except, he has enough skills to get a job somewhere better than Edmonton.  Both in terms of the city and the team which has ruined quite a number of players.

Yeah Puljujarvi has to be looking at his peers that were drafted high and ruined and wanting out.

 

When he says ”it has nothing to do with money”, he’s right. It has to do with having an actual career.

[higgyfan]

4 minutes ago, Monty said:

Well, the Oilers have qualified him, so he’s still their property. As long as they keep him qualified, I believe it’s either until he’s 25 or 27 (probably 27).

That's a long time.  Can't see JP sticking to his guns that long.  I don't think he really wants to spend 1 season in Europe, so he will probably end up in Edm sooner, not later.  They can't waive him, so at least he can avoid the AHL.  Messy situation though, to return to a team he's been so vocal about leaving.

[Amebushi]

13 hours ago, Provost said:

Except, he has enough skills to get a job somewhere better than Edmonton.  Both in terms of the city and the team which has ruined quite a number of players.

What are these skills that qualify him for a job somewhere better than Edmonton?  His hockey skills have led to a qualifying offer that he has rejected and opted to sign in Finland. What I see is a kid that isn’t able to go anywhere else in the NHL until 2024 or when Holland says he can. His play and his attitude will not draw any great offers from other teams. His best bet would be to fire his agent, apologize and play some decent hockey. Good players can demand trades. IMHO he is a good player and is suffering from being drafted by Deadmonton. This doesn’t change the facts...he could make millions of dollars and likely get the trade he wants if he would just show up and play to some kind of NHL level. Holding out should (and looks likely that it will) just lower his stock even more. When life gives you lemons you can complain or you can go find some vodka and make the best of it. 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Amebushi
Still can’t spell

[oldnews]

38 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

That track record is with a different GM. I doubt Holland wants to drag his name through the mud as well as he's asked for full control of operations of he wouldn't have taken the job.

 

I do understand agreeing with the player's decision, but from the organization's perspective, they don't need to give in to his demands. It's a sacrifice they may have to make for a long term message. So unless they're getting a fair offer, I personally wouldn't make the move. I disagree that Goldobin provides much more now. He's about as much of a project as Puljujarvi at a later stage in his career. If they really want help now, then I'm sure they'd be targeting someone more along the lines of a Pearson, but I imagine they'd still want a 2nd added in this case.

fair enough points - although I don't think Holland / Holland's name makes a whiff of difference - what he's inherited, whether it was his responsibility or not - doesn't really change anything imo.  I might consider a Pearson type deal - or Baer - but wouldn't be adding any 2nd round picks to a deal like that - Edmonton's leverage imo is nill - and they should/ought to have some urgency about looking to improve/win now - they've idled forever - selling 'patience' at this point (whether 'realistic' or not) should be a non-starter.

Edited August 11, 2019 by oldnews

[oldnews]

14 hours ago, Amebushi said:

While I don’t disagree with wanting out of Edmonton, for a million or more a year I’ll move there this weekend. Kids with no other skills in life should get their priorities in order. 

He could easiily command in excess of a million in the KHL.  He has options.  He isn't chasing money - he's electing to play in Finland, where he'll make less than if he elected to sign in the KHL - he simply wants out of the FRANCHISE of Edmonton - not the city - and can anyone blame him?  I think his agent probably also has some input - and regardless of one window dressed (Holland) - Edmonton remains a  weak organisation from the top down - probably good advice from an agent who has his best interests (not necessarily shorter term commissions) in mind.

[mll]

31 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Question ON:  How long before JP becomes a ufa if he plays this season in Europe?  Thx in advance.

He has 5 more seasons to UFA.   He didn't have the 40 NHL games his 1st season so the clock towards UFA status only started to count in his draft+2.  

[DeNiro]

I’d rather have Goldobin.

 

Better attitude and he can actually play at the NHL level.

[Me_]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I’d rather have Goldobin.

 

Better attitude and he can actually play at the NHL level.

VAN

Puljujarvi

(unproven; high risk; may be a dud)

 

EDM

Baertschi

(proven; high risk; oft concussed)

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Sorry Alfie - but you lost me with the first sentence.

Puljujarvi was widely considered to be one of the more complete players in his draft class - more developed two-way game than the vast majority of the field.

He's played on a somewhat strange Edmonton '3rd line' - getting 46.9% ozone starts - with RNH - who is not really a 'shutdown'/matchup center - not a particularly good faceoff guy - doesn't have particularly good 'underlying'/shot differential numbers - goal metrics are no better than Puljujarvi's.... RNH's production is probably fairly impressive in context - so perhaps JP's can be questioned in that role, but otherwise, playing with Strome and Lucic is also not going to serve JP's production. 

I think comparing him to Goldbobin is a serious miss - I think the better comparable would be Virtanen - who like Puljujarvi - has played in principally bottom six situations - has an under-rated game without the puck - but who's production relative to draft pedigree has disappointed people early in his career.

I don't see Puljujarvi as you do - I think he'd be a solid pick up - but under the circumstances, I don't think Edmonton gets what they're probably hoping to for him.

 

Jake is very responsible without the puck.  In fact I see Jake as a far better player without the puck than he is with it.  JP is way better than Jake with the puck.  That’s why I compare him to Goldy.  Great with the puck, but only in offensive situations.  I don’t know why JP is so bad without the puck.  I do know that any team he plays on he will need to prove to his teammates he can play as hard without the puck as he does with it, or he’s going to have a problem.  His offence isn’t good enough to compensate, so his teammates will not put up with poor defensive play.  

[Me_]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

He could easiily command in excess of a million in the KHL.  He has options.  He isn't chasing money - he's electing to play in Finland, where he'll make less than if he elected to sign in the KHL - he simply wants out of the FRANCHISE of Edmonton - not the city - and can anyone blame him?  I think his agent probably also has some input - and regardless of one window dressed (Holland) - Edmonton remains a  weak organisation from the top down - probably good advice from an agent who has his best interests (not necessarily shorter term commissions) in mind.

Is his agent the agent of any other Oilers property? Would be interesting to see what the agent himself thinks of the Oilers.

[Provost]

3 hours ago, Amebushi said:

What are these skills that qualify him for a job somewhere better than Edmonton?  His hockey skills have led to a qualifying offer that he has rejected and opted to sign in Finland. What I see is a kid that isn’t able to go anywhere else in the NHL until 2024 or when Holland says he can. His play and his attitude will not draw any great offers from other teams. His best bet would be to fire his agent, apologize and play some decent hockey. Good players can demand trades. IMHO he is a good player and is suffering from being drafted by Deadmonton. This doesn’t change the facts...he could make millions of dollars and likely get the trade he wants if he would just show up and play to some kind of NHL level. Holding out should (and looks likely that it will) just lower his stock even more. When life gives you lemons you can complain or you can go find some vodka and make the best of it. 

Many teams would want him and would sign him.  His stock being lowered affects what Edmonton can get for him, not what contract he would sign elsewhere.

He and his agent have clearly made the decision that his future will be much more negatively impacted by staying in Edmonton than by demanding to leave.  You are pretending that suddenly Edmonton won't be a mess, that he will have a chance at personal success, and that the team can invent cap space to sign him to a market level deal if he does have that success.  A new start could easily benefit him by many millions of dollars.

Beyond that, he clearly is willing to give up money for a better situation... that is noted by playing in Finland rather than the KHL.

[theo5789]

7 hours ago, oldnews said:

fair enough points - although I don't think Holland / Holland's name makes a whiff of difference - what he's inherited, whether it was his responsibility or not - doesn't really change anything imo.  I might consider a Pearson type deal - or Baer - but wouldn't be adding any 2nd round picks to a deal like that - Edmonton's leverage imo is nill - and they should/ought to have some urgency about looking to improve/win now - they've idled forever - selling 'patience' at this point (whether 'realistic' or not) should be a non-starter.

It doesn't mean Holland doesn't have to make a bad situation even worse by selling off a player to potentially perform better elsewhere only to take back a mediocre piece. Edmonton has done that enough and I expect they brought in Holland to stop this and I suspect Holland wanting full control would also not be pushed into doing something that he thinks would be a poor move. Yes Edmonton needs help now, but they got rid of Lucic without much damage to themselves and got their "immediate" help potentially to boot. Looks like Holland may be a bit more savvy than his predecessors.

 

Edmonton may not have a lot of leverage, but they are under no pressure to move him either. The one that's going to be hurt the most at the end of all this is Puljujarvi himself wasting another development year in a lesser league. If Edmonton wants to get help now, then they need someone a little more proven. A Pearson alone (or maybe a lower pick included) might be able to do, but a divisional rival means we have to add a 2nd. We don't have to do the deal, but I'm sure there would be a similar offer that they could take instead.

[N4ZZY]

On 8/3/2019 at 4:46 PM, NHL97OneTimer said:

Agree.....unless he lives up to his draft position, Goldobin + Baertschi + 5th is overpayment

Yeah. I'd offer up Goldobin, a 5th, or Bartschi. But certainly not all three. that's just massive overpayment. And for what? 

 

For a player who's disgruntled at an organization that hasn't been able to develop their top prospects in years past? 

 

For a player who, so far, hasn't lived up to his draft status. 

 

For a player who seems to be on the verge of "bust" label and territory? 

 

Holland can keep him, if he's asking for the moon. Nobody in the league is going to give him what he wants, and I think he knows that he's at a disadvantage. 

 

If JP is going to be moved, Holland's not going to get a huge haul for the guy. 

 

I'd say Goldobin and a 5th for JP is good enough for me. Goldy being the older player, but he's far more established NHL player than JP is, hence the 5th round pick thrown in there. We get a reclamation project, see if he can resurrect his NHL career. If not, I don't see Goldobin sticking around, even in Edmonton, and the 5th is a wash, a small small chance the player will turn out into much. I see it this way. If Edmonton can't develop their "top" prospects, then I wouldn't worry about them developing players in later rounds. That 5th, I'm not concerned about at all. 

 

Does Holland do a deal like that, though? 

 

To a team in the same division? Probably not. 

 

With that being said, I see JP ending up in the east somewhere. Carolina, maybe? Maybe a swap of prospects like Josh Ho-Sang and JP? New environments might help? 

[NHL97OneTimer]

4 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. I'd offer up Goldobin, a 5th, or Bartschi. But certainly not all three. that's just massive overpayment. And for what? 

 

For a player who's disgruntled at an organization that hasn't been able to develop their top prospects in years past? 

 

For a player who, so far, hasn't lived up to his draft status. 

 

For a player who seems to be on the verge of "bust" label and territory? 

 

Holland can keep him, if he's asking for the moon. Nobody in the league is going to give him what he wants, and I think he knows that he's at a disadvantage. 

 

If JP is going to be moved, Holland's not going to get a huge haul for the guy. 

 

I'd say Goldobin and a 5th for JP is good enough for me. Goldy being the older player, but he's far more established NHL player than JP is, hence the 5th round pick thrown in there. We get a reclamation project, see if he can resurrect his NHL career. If not, I don't see Goldobin sticking around, even in Edmonton, and the 5th is a wash, a small small chance the player will turn out into much. I see it this way. If Edmonton can't develop their "top" prospects, then I wouldn't worry about them developing players in later rounds. That 5th, I'm not concerned about at all. 

 

Does Holland do a deal like that, though? 

 

To a team in the same division? Probably not. 

 

With that being said, I see JP ending up in the east somewhere. Carolina, maybe? Maybe a swap of prospects like Josh Ho-Sang and JP? New environments might help? 

Not sure JB has any interest anyway, but if he did, I'm pretty sure Holland wouldn't gamble on sending him here for scraps.  He's still young and lots can happen in 2-3 years.....or even one good year.  You're probably on the mark by thinking Carolina.....or any other far away team.

[189lb enforcers?]

I’d dangle just about anything to land Pool party AND Bouchard.

Demko, Goldy, etc. 

 

[King Heffy]

3 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’d dangle just about anything to land Pool party AND Bouchard.

Demko, Goldy, etc. 

 

Yuck.  Pool party had a better shot at making it than that pylon.

[N4ZZY]

9 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said:

Not sure JB has any interest anyway, but if he did, I'm pretty sure Holland wouldn't gamble on sending him here for scraps.  He's still young and lots can happen in 2-3 years.....or even one good year.  You're probably on the mark by thinking Carolina.....or any other far away team.

Yeah. That's true. I'm not sure that JP is on Benning's radar. His moves this off-season would indicate that he's gunning the team for the playoffs. Do they even have room for a reclamation project like JP? Probably not. But if the Canucks were in that season where they could take on a project like JP, I'd go for it. 

 

I can't see Holland sending JP within the western conference, let alone the division. Too much risk that if JP does turn things around, he could haunt the Oilers for a very long time. 

 

 

[NHL97OneTimer]

8 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I’d dangle just about anything to land Pool party AND Bouchard.

Demko, Goldy, etc. 

 

Wrong forum to be talking about dangling things and pool parties.