Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[Nucker 67]

1 hour ago, 4petesake said:

I’m curious,  which team do you think would offer sheet him?

Not sure, couple of GMs that could do something bold (Bergevan, Kekalainen). Not sure they have the cap room though, or of any team does. 

[Mustard Tiger]

5 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

I’m not giving up on Huggy at all but I think that he’s a notch or two below Makar and Heiskanen.  
 

If we take off our homer glasses, where would you rank him compared to guys like Sergachev and MacAvoy? I don’t see any reason that Hughes should be making a lot more then Charlie, so I don’t get why JP Barry is talking about a cap crunch and so on, so forth. 
 

What do you do if his agent JP Barry is holding out for a bigger deal then he’s worth?  
 

I think that pressure should mount on JP Barry to get the deal done instead of the team.  We have more then enough money to give Elias a Barzal contract (7x3) and Quinn a MacAvoy (5x3) contract. 8x5, and 6x5 should be on the table as well. 

You should read some devils threads. Those fans over there due to the hamilton signing have 4 sets of glasses on. Think holtz will come in and score 40. J.hughes is a premiere 1c in the nhl LOL, T.smith will be better than q hughes, blackwood for vezina ( maybe if its like 40 games vs us yeah lol )

I also agree with your thoughts on contract dollars.
We should all know by now its these money hungry mfkn agents that drag this crap on for that extra few bucks in their pocket.
 

[fanfor42]

27 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

You should read some devils threads. Those fans over there due to the hamilton signing have 4 sets of glasses on. Think holtz will come in and score 40. J.hughes is a premiere 1c in the nhl LOL, T.smith will be better than q hughes, blackwood for vezina ( maybe if its like 40 games vs us yeah lol )

I also agree with your thoughts on contract dollars.
We should all know by now its these money hungry mfkn agents that drag this crap on for that extra few bucks in their pocket.
 

I think people should realize why agents drag it out.  They want to be able to say to every prospective client, I will go to the mat for you.  See what I did for Hughes and Petey? The Canucks  tried to make me cave but I dragged it out cuz I don't give a F.

 

Agents want to add top players to their roster.  They make 3% on the contract their players sign.  Its not about they extra 30k they make for getting an extra million as much as it is creating the illusion that they are the guy players need to sign with cuz they are tough customers. If they can add 5 more top players their income grows exponentially.  That is the goal.

 

They are lousy people as a general rule.  JP Barry thinks he is a star. Every time he is in the media he puffs himself up.

 

Having had many agents for years as an actor I know.  Having many friends and family play in many pro leagues I also have first hand knowledge of agents in hockey.

 

Not good people as a general rule and self promotion is the main reason they drag 21 and 22 year olds into long protracted bs before they sign for what they could have signed for months before.

 

It is all for the optics for the agent and his benefit. Petey will ultimately sign for 3 x 7 and Hughes for 3 x 6 or 4 x 6.5. 

 

Why it has to take all the way until training camp before they sign these deals....well you know why.

 

 

 

 

[Mustard Tiger]

3 minutes ago, fanfor42 said:

I think people should realize why agents drag it out.  They want to be able to say to every prospective client, I will go to the mat for you.  See what I did for Hughes and Petey? The Canucks  tried to make me cave but I dragged it out cuz I don't give a F.

 

Agents want to add top players to their roster.  They make 3% on the contract their players sign.  Its not about they extra 30k they make for getting an extra million as much as it is creating the illusion that they are the guy players need to sign with cuz they are tough customers. If they can add 5 more top players their income grows exponentially.  That is the goal.

 

They are lousy people as a general rule.  JP Barry thinks he is a star. Every time he is in the media he puffs himself up.

 

Having had many agents for years as an actor I know.  Having many friends and family play in many pro leagues I also have first hand knowledge of agents in hockey.

 

Not good people as a general rule and self promotion is the main reason they drag 21 and 22 year olds into long protracted bs before they sign for what they could have signed for months before

 

It is all for the optics for the agent and his benefit. Petey will ultimately sign for 3 x 7 and Hughes for 3 x 6 or 4 x 6.5. 

 

Why it has to take all the way until training camp before they sign these deals....well you know why.

 

 

 

 

Also seems to be a pattern, When the contract gets dragged to around training camp, Its more of a team friendly 3-5 yr deals. Those higher 7-8 deals happen around draft or before.( leafs not included lol ). For the inconsistency we have seen from both of them in regards to health and/or zone play, They really only deserve boeser number as you can't count this inflation crap in a flat cap. EP getting closer to barzal number is probs going to happen but i can't see huggy going over 6, Buddy can take our offered "fair" deal or sit lol. No real negotiation rights with his status. Good to see someone else understand these are not 8-9m dollar players right now, and we dont need to be paying them like it.

[D.B Cooper]

6 hours ago, 250Integra said:

Quinn is already a 60-70 point defencemen in his first two years in the league (in a full 82 game schedule). He was also PPG in the playoffs two seasons ago.

Let’s not count our chickens before they hatch.  Let him hit 60-70 before calling him a 60-70 point dman. 

Quote

 

The kid is just as good as Makar and Heiskanen.
 

Pardon?   Come on man.  Be real.  Sure Quinn is great, but absolutely not even on the same level at all.  Last year Makar took two huge steps ahead in both ends of the ice.  
He is a legit Norris caliber dman.  
Quinn, while putting up his points, didn’t take any stepup with his defensive game. 

Im sorry but they aren’t even close to a comparable anymore. 

Quote

The problem is this team didn't have the defensive depth that those teams have, but he is still putting up ridiculous numbers. He'll easily command 6-7 million at the minimum.

6-7 is a far cry from Makar and his 9+

Quote

 

We have never had a defencemen like Hughes who can create space and offensive opportunities from the backend. He'll only get better defensively when he is in his prime 3-4 years from now (crazy right???). You guys need to give you head a shake if you don't think he is worth the same as Makar.

You actually believe Hughes is worth over 9?

Colorado fans and people around the league believe Makar took a discount on his huge deal.  He left money on the table.  
Is Hughes worth almost 10?    

People need to give their heads a shake?

You said Quinn is worth 6-7 and will get better defensively later in 3-4 years, then say he is the same as the 10 mill Norris candidate. 
Get shaking buddy

Edited August 5, 2021 by drummerboy

[bree2]

2 minutes ago, drummerboy said:

Let’s not count our chickens before they hatch.  Let him hit 60-70 before calling him a 60-70 point dman. 

Pardon?   Come on man.  Be real.  Sure Quinn is great, but absolutely not even on the same level at all.  Last year Makar took two huge steps ahead in both ends of the ice.  
He is a legit Norris caliber dman.  
Quinn, while putting up his points, didn’t take any stepup with his defensive game. 

Im sorry but they aren’t even close to a comparable anymore. 

6-7 is a far cry from Makar and his 9+

You actually believe Hughes is worth over 9?

Colorado fans and people around the league get Makar took a discount on his huge deal.  He left money on the table.  
Is Hughes worth almost 10?    

People need to give their heads a shake?

You said Quinn is worth 6-7 and will get better defensively later in 3-4 years, then say he is the same as the 10 mill Norris candidate. 
Get shaking buddy

Makar isn't even worth over 9 in the flat cap,  he is good but not ready for 9. take MacKinnon out of the picture  and i don't believe he is that good

 

[Forsy]

7 hours ago, RomanP said:

I don't disagree on the long term, but the longer the deal is - the higher AAV they will want. If I was a gambling man (and I am :-)) - I would bet that the salary cap in 3-4 years will be significantly higher than the current one because of the new TV deal and fans going bananas after all the missed games during COVID. I wouldn't be surprised to see a salary cap closer to $90 mil in 3 years. Which should provide us with some extra options to pay more to our star players. It will also give everyone more time to evaluate the true value of these players and see if they consistently improve or start stagnating.

These are franchise/top players, and therefore, the rule of thumb would be reverse. They will accept slightly less on a shorter contract knowing they will get paid a heck a lot more on the next contract, and thus more overall. $9M x 8yrs now is less than money than say $8M x 3yrs bridge, then $10M+ x 5yrs+ later (inflation, contract starts during their prime, etc). But I agree with you, might as well bridge contract and see how they really look in 2-3 years time, and hope that inflation hits right after their contracts come (so they represent a smaller percentage of the cap).

[MattJVD]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Not sure, couple of GMs that could do something bold (Bergevan, Kekalainen). Not sure they have the cap room though, or of any team does. 

Seattle does, and they're a 1st line centre away from being really competitive in the Pacific Division. (Not that I think they'd actually do it)

[CaptKirk888]

2 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

I think people should realize why agents drag it out.  They want to be able to say to every prospective client, I will go to the mat for you.  See what I did for Hughes and Petey? The Canucks  tried to make me cave but I dragged it out cuz I don't give a F.

 

Agents want to add top players to their roster.  They make 3% on the contract their players sign.  Its not about they extra 30k they make for getting an extra million as much as it is creating the illusion that they are the guy players need to sign with cuz they are tough customers. If they can add 5 more top players their income grows exponentially.  That is the goal.

 

They are lousy people as a general rule.  JP Barry thinks he is a star. Every time he is in the media he puffs himself up.

 

Having had many agents for years as an actor I know.  Having many friends and family play in many pro leagues I also have first hand knowledge of agents in hockey.

 

Not good people as a general rule and self promotion is the main reason they drag 21 and 22 year olds into long protracted bs before they sign for what they could have signed for months before.

 

It is all for the optics for the agent and his benefit. Petey will ultimately sign for 3 x 7 and Hughes for 3 x 6 or 4 x 6.5. 

 

Why it has to take all the way until training camp before they sign these deals....well you know why.

 

 

 

 

 

[4petesake]

7 minutes ago, MattJVD said:

Seattle does, and they're a 1st line centre away from being really competitive in the Pacific Division. (Not that I think they'd actually do it)

Seattle could, possibly… but they only have $2.3M more in cap space than we do and they only have 19 signed for their roster vs 22 for Vancouver. They still have 4 RFAs unsigned including Vince Dunn, Twarynski, Borgen & Cholowski from their roster as well as non-roster Kole Lind and Cale Fleury. Granted they don’t have to sign all of these guys if they don’t want to but they do need to ink 4 of them.

[250Integra]

1 hour ago, drummerboy said:

Let’s not count our chickens before they hatch.  Let him hit 60-70 before calling him a 60-70 point dman. 

Pardon?   Come on man.  Be real.  Sure Quinn is great, but absolutely not even on the same level at all.  Last year Makar took two huge steps ahead in both ends of the ice.  
He is a legit Norris caliber dman.  
Quinn, while putting up his points, didn’t take any stepup with his defensive game. 

Im sorry but they aren’t even close to a comparable anymore. 

6-7 is a far cry from Makar and his 9+

You actually believe Hughes is worth over 9?

Colorado fans and people around the league believe Makar took a discount on his huge deal.  He left money on the table.  
Is Hughes worth almost 10?    

People need to give their heads a shake?

You said Quinn is worth 6-7 and will get better defensively later in 3-4 years, then say he is the same as the 10 mill Norris candidate. 
Get shaking buddy

I said he’s worth “6-7 million at the minimum”, whereas that poster said he’s somewhere around 5-6 million. Maybe you should learn how to read.

[PhillipBlunt]

[UKNuck96]

4 hours ago, Slegr said:

I suppose that might be true - but how many of us would really want to work with our siblings every day? Count me out of that daydream.

For me I would want to play against them not with them with rivalry, you want to be competitive and prove whose best,  let’s be on the ice together against each other.

 

for me the risk would be him wanting to play for a team in the Met division not the Devils 

[D.B Cooper]

7 hours ago, 250Integra said:

I said he’s worth “6-7 million at the minimum”, whereas that poster said he’s somewhere around 5-6 million. Maybe you should learn how to read.

Awwww.   Don’t like getting called out on your homer nonsense?  My reading comprehension was fine.  You going off like Petar Pan in Neverland is another story.  

I never mentioned 5-6 (even though that is a fair number considering Quinn is a one trick pony)

 

Quinn WAS a comparable to Makar a couple years ago. He has always been a bit behind him, now it’s not even close.  Only a couple of rose coloured glasses kinda people such as yourself think he is. 

[appleboy]

I think the Canucks should go after two year terms for both of these guys.

5 to 6 mil each for no more than 3 years. Two preferred. 

Leave some cap flexibility for trade deadline and go for it over the next two years.

[appleboy]

Hughes and Rathbone.

 

They might find out that Rathbone is the keeper.

 

Will Petey's wrist hold up the test of time?

Edited August 5, 2021 by appleboy

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Mustard Tiger said:

Also seems to be a pattern, When the contract gets dragged to around training camp, Its more of a team friendly 3-5 yr deals. Those higher 7-8 deals happen around draft or before.( leafs not included lol ). For the inconsistency we have seen from both of them in regards to health and/or zone play, They really only deserve boeser number as you can't count this inflation crap in a flat cap. EP getting closer to barzal number is probs going to happen but i can't see huggy going over 6, Buddy can take our offered "fair" deal or sit lol. No real negotiation rights with his status. Good to see someone else understand these are not 8-9m dollar players right now, and we dont need to be paying them like it.

First of all i agree they really haven't earned much more then BB money.   It's flat cap for three years at least, possibly five.    GMs made some big mistakes so far this off season.   Makar - hasn't earned top three money, neither has Seth Jones.   Hamilton yes of course he has, four years in a row as a top RHD in this league, was on his way to winning a Norris two years ago, plus freaking 30 in 48ish games and almost as many points too, fourth in voting this year as well.  Three years younger then AP was in his walk year and tops or top five in virtually every 5 x 5 catagory.    Better then AP really.   And AP signed in Vegas, making more then Hamilton take home wise.  It's flat cap.   So deals signed three years ago are what they should be considering not bumping pay up like this.   Barzal was signed after flat cap.   Don't like that deal much either.    AHO doesn't count, thought cap was going up, neither does any contracts signed a year or so before covid.    GMs have all these smart people working for them but somehow just keep creating inflation for everyone else.   Seth Jones...wow.   Werenski WTF!!.   Idiotic.   Rant over.   Sakic also overpaid Rantanen.   Good luck keeping COL together now that he's made TWO blunder deals.   Mckinnon?  He's getting 13 somewhere when he's up but not in COL.   Best to win a cup now.   He's helping boost ALL those guys stats.   Says he would do it again (sign cheap - which of course he didn't, he got a fair deal for what he'd done so far and didn't bet on himself)...  Landeskog ...Why would he?  

 

EP hasn't played more then 60ish games yet.   Couldn't because of injuries first and third season, the other one who knows maybe he could.    PGP is pretty close to BB.   BB played with Horvat and Bear his rookie season lol.   EP played with Miller and BB.   For sure he's loaded with potential.   But you have to balance with what has actually happened too.   6.25 x 3 compared to BB deal.   He isn't very good at face offs although getting better.   C is more important but he's sheltered (and well done JB for this) with Miller ... they share the duties to a certain degree.   That's why he should  get  500k more.     

 

QHs.   Tough one.  Again we haven't seen 82 games but good on him for not having to take time out although he was beat up in the bubble..we still don't know if he has 115 plus games in him in one year.    Will give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.    He's a top ten scoring D too.   That for sure counts for something.   He's also not providing much value once you take the PP points out of the equation.   Let's be real, he's a third paring 5 x 5 D that wouldn't be in the league as a D if it wasn't for his transition game which is superb.  Chabot, Chychrun, McAvoy, Werenksi, Sergachev.   Where does he fit in with these guys?  He's no Heiskanen or Makar.   I'd give him at most, a BB deal. Let him earn his next deal.  EP i'd be stoked if we went full 8 on him.   We need to see what Podz can do still as well.    If he's a 40-50 point third line guy who's plus 20 and kills all the penalties .... who's more valuable?   Point is don't sell the farm yet.    And that's what i truly thing both guys have earned so far.   Both have massive ceilings.   Both haven't shown enough they've earned 9x6 (like and including Makar), or 8.5 x 5 like AHO.      What i expect to see, mostly because other GMs have made it really tough - 7.25 x 3 for EP and 6.5 x 3 for QHs.  

[48MPHSlapShot]

Any illusion that either one of Hughes and Petey is worth close to double digit figures is out to lunch. They're great players, no doubt, but the fact is that both of them still have have a ways to go before they're comparable to some of the best players in the league.

 

Petey hasn't been a PPG player yet, has been hit hard by the injury bug, and honestly just doesn't drive the play as much as I'd like him to. Unpopular opinion, but I think some people are still a little blinded by his first 10-20 games in the league where he was just incredible, before the rest of the league figured out how to play him. Credit to him for finding ways to generate offense despite the rest of the league somewhat figuring him out, but the fact is he hasn't looked as impressive since his first handful of games.

 

Hughes hasn't proven that he can defend at a top 4 level, let alone the level of a franchise defenseman. In his first handful of games he was given sheltered minutes on the third pairing. In his first full season he was paired with one of the best defensive Dmen in the league, and this last season he was exposed....hard.

 

They're still great players though, and they can still reach the level we need them to given time, but as of this moment they haven't shown enough to justify the type of money some folk have been talking about. 

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, appleboy said:

I think the Canucks should go after two year terms for both of these guys.

5 to 6 mil each for no more than 3 years. Two preferred. 

Leave some cap flexibility for trade deadline and go for it over the next two years.

That's risky.   EP could explode this year or the next ... if he doesn't he's still like a Sedin out there during their prime minus their peak year.    He explodes and the next deal is going to cost major bank.    He's got a Mckinnon trend in him possibly.    I'd be happy to lock him up for 8 years.    But would pay him anticipating a PGP (point per gamed played).   That's Sedin like money, 6.1 back then, so in today's money that's 7.75-8.25 tops.   The last 3-6 years the cap will start rising again.   Back then the cap was rising again and like 8.6.   

 

QHs i'd like a 2 year deal... 

[IBatch]

16 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Any illusion that either one of Hughes and Petey is worth close to double digit figures is out to lunch. They're great players, no doubt, but the fact is that both of them still have have a ways to go before they're comparable to some of the best players in the league.

 

Petey hasn't been a PPG player yet, has been hit hard by the injury bug, and honestly just doesn't drive the play as much as I'd like him to. Unpopular opinion, but I think some people are still a little blinded by his first 10-20 games in the league where he was just incredible, before the rest of the league figured out how to play him. Credit to him for finding ways to generate offense despite the rest of the league somewhat figuring him out, but the fact is he hasn't looked as impressive since his first handful of games.

 

Hughes hasn't proven that he can defend at a top 4 level, let alone the level of a franchise defenseman. In his first handful of games he was given sheltered minutes on the third pairing. In his first full season he was paired with one of the best defensive Dmen in the league, and this last season he was exposed....hard.

 

They're still great players though, and they can still reach the level we need them to given time, but as of this moment they haven't shown enough to justify the type of money some folk have been talking about. 

Yep.   They are both developing players. On a positive note look at the Sedins.   They took years to get to their PGP levels.   Not just because they were behind Naslund, aside from Burrows and Carter nobody could boost their production.    EP and QHs back then would likely also fail hard.    But in today's game, where we are back to late 80's in actual size of players (when Chara retires will go to mid 80's lol), these guys are set up to win.   Aside from Bure and Linden, we've never had players that have played as well as QHs, BB and EP right off the hop.   They are so young, and years away from their prime.   EP is entering his breakout season though .. 4th year.   I'd be happy to lock him up for a full 8 years.   QHs not so much.   I'd actually made several posts suggesting if we want to compete while Horvat and Miller are still under contract we trade him for a solid all around D in his prime now.   Add Reinhardt and Ekblad or something.   JB did something equally as drastic which i'm fine with.   QHs when he's 26-28 is going to absolutely be a 70-90 point D.   That's uncommon.   Once his shot gets better i'm expecting double digits in goals too.    But for now - just now - a 2-3 year show me deal makes a lot of sense.   Actually really don't care if we sign both long term - just praying it's that they don't pay too much for potential.