blame management, blame coach, but also blame this lazy, entitled, soulless core, starting from Horvat/Pettersson/Boeser

[48MPHSlapShot]

10 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

I am starting to think that it's possible this core is just isn't good enough to build a good team around. As much as it pains to hear maybe Boeser/Pettersson/Horvat just aren't those players. They can still be good players or pieces to build a contender around buy probably not the Kane/Toews, Crosby/Malkin, Kucherov/Hedman/Point or Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg of an organization and more like your Phil Kessel or a Tyler Johnson  

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

[iinatcc]

9 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

Sad reality unless something turns around soon. I think us fans need admit this is possible and even moreso with how this season has started

 

Edit ... In the end though this is on Benning still since he did build the team around these players 

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by iinatcc

[shiznak]

13 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

I dunno.  

 

he’s +6 and a 65%(!) corsi at 5 v 5.   He’s almost a point per game with a pair of goals and a post or two in there…

 

Whatever his deficiencies in his own zone, he’s more than making up for it in the other end of the ice and that’s what I’m seeing too.

His corsi is skewed, because he starts in the offensive zone 74% of his shifts. Green rarely deploy Hughes in the defensive zone, because still gets caught out of position or loses his puck battles.

 

He lead the team in high danger scoring chance against and second on the team in high danger goals against. 
 

This is why +/- is flawed, when determining how good a player is, defensively.

Edited November 13, 2021 by shiznak

[Captain Canuck #12]

19 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

Who's Vrbata in this scenario?..... I think I got the other three figured out!

Edited November 13, 2021 by Captain Canuck #12

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Who's Vrbata in this scenario?..... I think I got the other three figured out!

Boeser?

[48MPHSlapShot]

43 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

Sad reality unless something turns around soon. I think us fans need admit this is possible and even moreso with how this season has started

 

Edit ... In the end though this is on Benning still since he did build the team around these players 

 

The problem is, and you can tell by the downvotes my post is getting, that a lot of people won't be willing to accept that the core just isn't good enough. It's easy to point out when a coach or GM just isn't good at their job. It becomes a lot harder to do when it's a player that you're invested in. 

[EddieVedder]

6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

I wouldnt go that far, but the fact is we dont have an elite core right now and we have overpaid players who dont look like core pieces.   How do you justifying paying a defenseman who cant play defense 7 mill over 6 years? 

Its decisions like this that will put a stranglehold on this team for years down the road. 

This team needs to build a defense first and foremost.  No more of these little guys who cant defend.  When they can do that, and when Podz and Hogz can develop into legit top 6 stars, we will see a turnaround. 

[Timråfan]

20 hours ago, Odd. said:

I was probably more excited watching games when we were bottom feeding for a number of years than I am now with a team that's supposed to be good 'on paper'. 

 

When in reality, it's actually not so good on paper..

 

I watch this team, it's like seeing your cheating ex on social media. My blood boils, I get angry quickly, and become so annoyed that my mental health for the rest of the night gets bad. When I woke up and  saw Gadjovich and MacEwen go on waivers, especially the former, I was extremely angry at this organization. Physical, gritty, mean players who play with edge and bring urgency, waived just like that in place for souless guys on the ice like Dowling, Highmore, and Chiasson. Like what? 

 

This management claims its doing one thing, but completely does the opposite. 

 

The fact of the matter is, our team lacks identity. Boeser, Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, I'm sorry, but these guys play with absolutely no urgency. They don't play like they are hungry and want to score and win. They would rather laugh after whistles and have some chitchats with the opposing players while literally being ignored for looking like a bunch of scrubs. 

 

Fire Green. Sure. However, I'm not so sure it's just a coaching issue. I have a feeling the issue is beyond just management, but the core itself. This is the NHL, you can't just rely on skill and speed.  You need heart, grit, physicality, urgency, tenacity, ruggedness, poise, determination, and last but not least, soul. 

 

J.T Miller, Garland, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Hughes.

 

I applaud you guys. Day in, day out, these guys are our best players. 3 of them are our top scorers respectively, and the other two are undoubtedly some of the hardest working hockey players I've ever witnessed. And Podkolzin is literally just 13 games into his career.

 

This team isn't going to do jack $&!# in the playoffs, even if we somehow manage to sneak by. First round exit, 2nd round sweep easily. 

 

1 step forward, 3 steps back. 

 

If we have a performance like that again, I won't be watching a single game for the rest of the season. Because i'll know then we surely aren't making the playoffs. We all have bad games, blowout games, etc etc. Last nights game was something else. 

 

This core isn't built to win.

 

 

If you want only gritty players you shouldn’t draft creativity.

So this problem is on Benning and maybe Green giving wrong info till Benning. 

[Josepho]

I wouldn't want to play for management who treats some of our most respected players like absolute $&!# and handled the COVID situation horribly.

[#Canucks]

I don’t think this thread was entirely necessary. I get the frustration but I think the coach has lost the room. Maybe too much gaming for the young guys? 

[48MPHSlapShot]

14 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

I wouldnt go that far, but the fact is we dont have an elite core right now and we have overpaid players who dont look like core pieces.   How do you justifying paying a defenseman who cant play defense 7 mill over 6 years? 

Its decisions like this that will put a stranglehold on this team for years down the road. 

This team needs to build a defense first and foremost.  No more of these little guys who cant defend.  When they can do that, and when Podz and Hogz can develop into legit top 6 stars, we will see a turnaround. 

They're still movable, so long as we don't piss around and let their value deteriorate too much. If Hughes keeps his current pace up he'll net a ransom in a return. Petey's value is certainly going to take a hit, but someone will still pay put the ass for him so long as we don't wait too long. Same goes for Boeser. Horvat for some reason is seen as some sort of two way god and a great leader(lol). Obviously neither is the case, but as long as that perception is there around the league he'll net a nice return as well. 

 

If we wait too long to pull the plug, all of these players will start to lose value as the rest of the league starts to see them for what they really are. We can't sit on these guys for years and wait for them to pull some sort of rabbit out of the hat. 

[tas]

6 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

the core is (or at least should have been) fine, although I do think the team is lacking a true alpha dog. jt and bo do what they can, but it's not enough.

 

I suggested it at the time and i stand by it now, losing tanev, markstrom, toffoli, and stecher was an enormous loss in the room. that group had just become so tight knit, and each of those guys played an integral role in that. that group bonded over the loss of markstrom's and stecher's dads, tanev was like a big brother to the whole team, and the way toffoli fit in so seamlessly, he was instantly part of it and wanted to be in for the long haul. and then the success they had in the bubble? galvanized the whole thing. made them believe. they knew they were close, maybe just needed to add a piece or two.

 

losing those guys would have ripped the heart out of the group. 

 

and now, in a sense, you have to build everything from scratch. you have all the pieces, but no chemistry. the guys don't have the established off ice friendships, the rapport, the history, the inside jokes, all that. they don't have that feeling of wanting to go through a wall for one another. it takes time for that to develop, and time isn't something this team has. and sometimes it never develops. 

[D.B Cooper]

Some good points, some pretty far off.   
Bo isn’t lazy at all.   He doesn’t necessarily inspire or get the boys really fired up, but he isn’t lazy. 
Bo does need to step up more though. 
Start throwing big hits. Cause some $&!# in the corners and in front of the net.  
Be like Iggy!

 

It really doesn’t appear like management or ownership will do what needs to be done.  
 

This team is stale and needs a big old shuffling from top down.  
BUT

Thats not gonna happen.  
Instead it appears we are in for another really long season. 
 

If it is effecting your mental health, my suggestion would be this (I’m not a doctor, and am no one anyone should ever take any advice on anything from),     
Buy a really nice couch.  Big enough for full out comfy naps.  
(19+) Get nuked before the game.  30-45 minutes before the game works great.    Couple beers helps too. 

Turn on that Canucks game, get really comfy, and sleep through the whole thing.  

It’s really the only way to enjoy a Canucks game these days, and it’s awesome.  
I plan on doing it again tonight!

You might ask ‘But Coop, what if they play a great game and you sleep through the whole thing?”

My only response is HAHAHAHAH. Not very likely my friend.  Stay Calm, and Nap On

 

Go Couch Go

 

Edited November 13, 2021 by D.B Cooper

[48MPHSlapShot]

8 minutes ago, tas said:

the core is (or at least should have been) fine, although I do think the team is lacking a true alpha dog. jt and bo do what they can, but it's not enough.

 

I suggested it at the time and i stand by it now, losing tanev, markstrom, toffoli, and stecher was an enormous loss in the room. that group had just become so tight knit, and each of those guys played an integral role in that. that group bonded over the loss of markstrom's and stecher's dads, tanev was like a big brother to the whole team, and the way toffoli fit in so seamlessly, he was instantly part of it and wanted to be in for the long haul. and then the success they had in the bubble? galvanized the whole thing. made them believe. they knew they were close, maybe just needed to add a piece or two.

 

losing those guys would have ripped the heart out of the group. 

 

and now, in a sense, you have to build everything from scratch. you have all the pieces, but no chemistry. the guys don't have the established off ice friendships, the rapport, the history, the inside jokes, all that. they don't have that feeling of wanting to go through a wall for one another. it takes time for that to develop, and time isn't something this team has. and sometimes it never develops. 

I really don't know if we do have the pieces any more. Maybe with the proper insulation and proper guidance they could have taken that step, but even that only goes so far. Pettersson and Hughes especially have physical limitations that I really don't think they'll be able to overcome. We need to face the possibility that this core isn't the core to build around. I say give them them the year with a new coach, and if there isn't significant turnaround, bring in new management that will be willing to start stripping the team down and begin the process of rebuilding again, and this time do it correctly. None of this "on the fly" crap.

[Hairy Kneel]

7 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Who's Vrbata in this scenario?..... I think I got the other three figured out!

[EdgarM]

1 hour ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

I really don't know if we do have the pieces any more. Maybe with the proper insulation and proper guidance they could have taken that step, but even that only goes so far. Pettersson and Hughes especially have physical limitations that I really don't think they'll be able to overcome. We need to face the possibility that this core isn't the core to build around. I say give them them the year with a new coach, and if there isn't significant turnaround, bring in new management that will be willing to start stripping the team down and begin the process of rebuilding again, and this time do it correctly. None of this "on the fly" crap.

This is my thought as well. Boes and Bo have really not developed in this area as well. Come playoff time we will get manhandled by the bigger stronger teams and if they outwork us, we are done. A "Markstrom" or a "Demko" can only take you so far.

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

This is my thought as well. Boes and Bo have really not developed in this area as well. Come playoff time we will get manhandled by the bigger stronger teams and if they outwork us, we are done. A "Markstrom" or a "Demko" can only take you so far.

but that didn't happen in the bubble playoffs, those guys were not pushed around that way.

[HOFsedins]

9 hours ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

We may have to face the possibility that this is the case. We may be trying to build around a core that's equivalent to something consisting of Ryan Nugent Hopkins, Radim Vrbata, Tyson Barrie and a bargain bin version of Ryan O'Reilly as captain. A core like that ain't ever winning a cup.

 

Give em the rest of the year with a new coach to see if they can turn things around. If they can't, burn it down and start over.

It totally looks that way right now. Our star players have to be game breakers.

[Podzilla]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

but that didn't happen in the bubble playoffs, those guys were not pushed around that way.

Why do people keep bringing up the bubble. Half the teams didnt give a &^@# and didn’t even want to be there. If Demko didn’t play like he did we would have been blown out every game. Green is not a good coach, he can’t adapt or do anything on the fly and finally people are seeing how garbage our systems are which I’ve been saying for years. We’ve never been good 5 on 5 with Green. Our core is the softest in the league. When’s then last time you saw Boeser, Petey or Hughes throw a decent hit? Horvat is lame as a captain. Hank was more gritty than him. 

[bishopshodan]

23 hours ago, brownky said: