wai_lai416 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: He was the captain for 7 years. Just because Messier ripped the C off his jersey doesn't take that away from him... lol you can't be a captain or leader without the C at least according to this fanbase anyways. again the canucks were in a full blown rebuild not competing for a playoff spot and the locker room was completely destroyed ever since messier arrived. trading linden made no difference to that locker room. if we were rebuilding feel free to trade everyone including EP QH i wouldn't care Edited October 15, 2022 by wai_lai416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) . Edited October 15, 2022 by Elias Pettersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: lol you can't be a captain or leader without the C at least according to this fanbase anyways. again the canucks were in a full blown rebuild not competing for a playoff spot and the locker room was completely destroyed ever since messier arrived. trading linden made no difference to that locker room. if we were rebuilding feel free to trade everyone including EP QH i wouldn't care Serious question Wai. We go back and forth on alot of stuff and I respect you as a poster. Do you think trading BO at this point is going to seriously negatively affect the locker room? Petey is best buds with Huggy and Brock and Hoglander. Miller is the most vocal of the bunch. Horvat wasn't even at Demko's wedding, even Rathbone and Poolman were there. How much of an influence do you really think Horvat has in the dressing room at this point? Remember who is in charge here. JR has won 3 cups and his captain was Sidney Crosby. Boudreau coached Alex Ovechkin. We are talking about two of the greatest players ever. Do you honestly think that JR and Boudreau would agree to trade Horvat if they really felt he was the leader of this team and the team couldn't move forward without him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: We'd probably have to add for PLD. No, it doesn't address our biggest weakness. But I think Horvat wouldn't be the only player that needs to be traded. I think Boeser probably needs to me moved as well. Add a guy like Rathbone to Boeser and I think we can get a top 4 Dman. Then we could add Severson as a UFA and also get a 3C in the UFA market and all of a sudden we have a more diverse team. PLD could play wing with Petey or Miller, so you are adding a power forward to your top 6. His size makes up for having Garland and Hoglander in the lineup. PLD Miller Garland Kuzmenko Pettersson Podkolzin Hoglander Mikheyev Lots of speed and size in that top 9. Add a pure 3C and we are set. We also have McDonough, Klimovich, Lekkerimaki and Karlsson coming up in the pipeline. You said you wanted another centre in the lineup, so PLD playing wing gives us that option. Also, he'd be perfect in the bumper position on the first unit PP with his size... PLD would be a nice acquisition, I do question the cost though. You don't get him for just Horvat, not given his two 60 point seasons, age, and pedigree. He's also a team controlled RFA. It'd be a very expensive acquisition. It doesn't make sense for Winnipeg to move him unless they feel he won't re-sign, at which point I doubt there'd be any shortage of interest. I do think Boeser goes at some point, and I do think we should be willing to move Rathbone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: Seems about right Sam. Even with the eye test you could get a similar result... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Serious question Wai. We go back and forth on alot of stuff and I respect you as a poster. Do you think trading BO at this point is going to seriously negatively affect the locker room? Petey is best buds with Huggy and Brock and Hoglander. Miller is the most vocal of the bunch. Horvat wasn't even at Demko's wedding, even Rathbone and Poolman were there. How much of an influence do you really think Horvat has in the dressing room at this point? Remember who is in charge here. JR has won 3 cups and his captain was Sidney Crosby. Boudreau coached Alex Ovechkin. We are talking about two of the greatest players ever. Do you honestly think that JR and Boudreau would agree to trade Horvat if they really felt he was the leader of this team and the team couldn't move forward without him? That is what they are trying to do is resign Bo.They like his play and leadership.With the twins Less was louder but did not make him the leader.Bo is the best we have on the team to be the leader.Unless he leaves he will be the captain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I do understand that, I am very familiar with Horvat's resume. The issue is JR doesn't want to pay him for all of that because we now have Miller locked up long term as our 1C and Petey is our 2C, even though some won't ever get over this and continue in calling him a winger. So that leaves BO as a 3C. Does he get more ice time than a typical 3C? Sure, he does. That is because the team is putting him in those positions to get more ice time. The bumper spot on the PP, the PK, taking most of the defensive zones draws, etc. The reason he hasn't been signed yet is because the team does not want to pay him as a 2C, they want to pay him as a 3C. We can get someone else to play the bumper spot. I would put Podkolzin in there. He has all the tools to succeed in that role and he's only making 925k. As for the PK, Horvat is an average defensive player, so we are better off getting an actual pure 3C who can be a top PK'er in this league who can partner with Mikheyev. Horvat isn't that guy. As for faceoffs, that 3C can also be our main faceoff guy and take most of the important draws. That 3C doesn't need to score 30 goals. He can be a 10-15 goal scorer. We can make up the other 15 goals from our wingers. Kuzmenko looks like he can score 30 just by himself. Add in Podkolzin and Mikheyev and we have plenty of guys who can make up the difference. Seems to me that management agrees with my take. If they didn't Horvat would have been signed already if they felt the same as you do... JR did state Horvat's name as a part of the core and that they'd like to get him signed. His agent said talks are ongoing yesterday and both sides would like him to stay. Both sides seem to understand that there's no big rush atm. Both sides seem to want to get a deal done. I am not so sure they agree with all our your take on the matter. Given how we are wanting to be a good playoff team, I don't see why we would get rid of players who are good playoff performers like Horvat. IMO I think Petey is capable of playing wing which would keep Horvat as 2nd C. Our biggest surplus atm is at wing. It's year 5 now and Petey hasn't really been as reliable as a faceoff guy. His best season was playing next to Miller where he was a PPG player. If you lose Horvat than Miller has to step up and take some of Horvat's role which could negatively affect Miller's offensive output which is not the best scenario. Finding that sort of reliable 3rd C is tough to do. Credible wingers seem to be a whole lot easier to find, just look at our off-season with Kuz and Mikheyev. I IMO it would be a much more ideal situation if we find that 3rd C and put Petey as the top line wing. Horvat I like a lot better than guys like Boeser and Garland. He is more vital than either player. Personally with the addition of Kuz and Mikheyev, toppled with the fact that most of our credible prospects seem to be RH wingers/C and the fact that good wingers are more readily available than credible Cs, I feel we could part with both Garland and Boeser. IMO we should look to get rid of the guys who aren't as good and have a considerable cap hit like Boeser/Garland, especially considering Kuz is a UFA next off-season. We likely are not getting a top 4 RD for any of our guys. Deals nowadays seem to be cap in/cap out deals, quality players going for picks/prospects. It doesn't help that Horvat is a upcoming UFA. Teams can just wait whereas guys like Boeser/Garland still signed for multi-years. IMO it's our best bet to have our cupboards stocked and cap space readily available. Allows us flexibility in options with adding pieces. Obviously do this situationally(like draft, trade deadline, off-season). I probably wouldn't rid ourselves of both Garland and Boeser during the season but one is feasible with the winger depth we have this year. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickly Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Phff, Horvats agent saying he’s a top line centre is laughable. He’s a 2-3C on an actual contending team like Tampa or Colorado. He’s a good player but not worth the scratch they are apparently seeking. Trading him leaves a big hole to fill but in all honesty he’s average defensively and hasn’t shown he can be consistent offensively enough to warrant the contract he’s allegedly seeking. Plus, I’m not sold on him being captain of this team moving forward. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 28 minutes ago, Pickly said: Phff, Horvats agent saying he’s a top line centre is laughable. He’s a 2-3C on an actual contending team like Tampa or Colorado. He’s a good player but not worth the scratch they are apparently seeking. Trading him leaves a big hole to fill but in all honesty he’s average defensively and hasn’t shown he can be consistent offensively enough to warrant the contract he’s allegedly seeking. Plus, I’m not sold on him being captain of this team moving forward. It's posturing to get good deal for his client (also himself). This isn’t anything new. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Time Is Now Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Honestly, at this point I’d look to trade Horvat for a player who could be our clear-cut 3rd line center option. A player like Joel Eriksson Ek, locked up for the foreseeable future at a decent cap hit, would be the perfect sort of player. If we could squeeze a draft pick from them too, that would be great. Some cap flexibility and a little draft capital…get it done JR! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: Serious question Wai. We go back and forth on alot of stuff and I respect you as a poster. Do you think trading BO at this point is going to seriously negatively affect the locker room? Petey is best buds with Huggy and Brock and Hoglander. Miller is the most vocal of the bunch. Horvat wasn't even at Demko's wedding, even Rathbone and Poolman were there. How much of an influence do you really think Horvat has in the dressing room at this point? Remember who is in charge here. JR has won 3 cups and his captain was Sidney Crosby. Boudreau coached Alex Ovechkin. We are talking about two of the greatest players ever. Do you honestly think that JR and Boudreau would agree to trade Horvat if they really felt he was the leader of this team and the team couldn't move forward without him? it really depends, we don't know how bo is viewed inside the locker room coz we ain't there. we can speculate all we want as fan whether bo is a good captain or not but i reckon Bo is very well liked and respected in the locker room. i think trading bo will negatively affect the locker room unless it is a home run trade that makes the team better. Personally i don't think such a trade exist, and we'll end up with the 1st prospect and a fringe player at the deadline. how do you think the player feels if bo is traded midway thru the season and you did not end up with anything that made the team better? the players will start questioning.. are you trying for the playoffs.. or are we tanking the season and try again next year? if they were planning to move bo they should have done it during the off season. they had plenty of time to move him from the time Miller is signed to the season started 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You Mad Bro? Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Horvat for a RD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I like Horvat but he does not have the drive to push this team over the line. Mgmt needs to balance out the lineup and that means using Horvat to get a RHD - Horvat has value around the league and holds better value for the Canucks as a trade chip rather than a $7.75M 3rd line center. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegr Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 When Bo signed his previous contract, I believe he was the fourth highest paid player at the time (behind the Sedins and Loui E). It was probably a bit of an overpayment and investment, as he came off a 50+ point season and looked on the up and up. He’s been through many years of losing seasons, and one wonders whether he has become numb to losing. Fans want a lot more with this team. Perhaps Horvat has come to represent mediocrity, even if it’s an unfair assessment. Are we taking his skill set for granted? Or is he not really the critical cog that some argue he is? Should he stay? Or should he go? The Canucks are 17-22-6 without Bo Horvat all-time. We know that kind of record won’t hold water this season. But we also know we didn’t have the team and talent that we do now during those Horvat-less games. We have a giant brain trust in management now. Let’s hope they make the right call on this one, because however it unfolds, it will define this management group and this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 I think we will re-sign Bo at (likely) 7 mil x 8 years; same total dollars as Miller. But (IMHAO) we would be better off to trade Bo for a younger, top four RSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 3 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: it really depends, we don't know how bo is viewed inside the locker room coz we ain't there. we can speculate all we want as fan whether bo is a good captain or not but i reckon Bo is very well liked and respected in the locker room. i think trading bo will negatively affect the locker room unless it is a home run trade that makes the team better. Personally i don't think such a trade exist, and we'll end up with the 1st prospect and a fringe player at the deadline. how do you think the player feels if bo is traded midway thru the season and you did not end up with anything that made the team better? the players will start questioning.. are you trying for the playoffs.. or are we tanking the season and try again next year? if they were planning to move bo they should have done it during the off season. they had plenty of time to move him from the time Miller is signed to the season started I agree 100%. The time to have traded BO if that is what they wanted to do was in the summer. It will now be difficult to get maximum value in any trade and I agree that if he is traded during this season which I think he will be it will affect the team for sure. However, they are now stuck in the situation they are in. If they do not re-sign him they have no choice but to trade him. So, the sooner the better. If we are in a playoff spot, I don't see how it is possible to trade him at the deadline, makes no sense because like you said we won't get any player back, it will be a trade for picks and prospects, which means we will give away our 2023 playoffs. To be totally honest with you, I think JR blew this big time. Seems like they did not have a concrete plan on how to deal with Miller and BO. I think they got lucky with Miller because he came back and took less than he wanted and they got him signed. If Miller had done the same as BO the Canucks would have been totally screwed right now. I don't believe they had any intention of signing both players unless both were signed to team friendly deals. I think they are stuck right now and have turned this into a huge media circus which is going to affect this team. People are saying they are not in a rush but I don't believe it. I think they want this situation dealt with one way or another as quickly as possible. There is a small chance that JR caves and gives BO what he wants. We will find out soon I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 28 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree 100%. The time to have traded BO if that is what they wanted to do was in the summer. It will now be difficult to get maximum value in any trade and I agree that if he is traded during this season which I think he will be it will affect the team for sure. However, they are now stuck in the situation they are in. If they do not re-sign him they have no choice but to trade him. So, the sooner the better. If we are in a playoff spot, I don't see how it is possible to trade him at the deadline, makes no sense because like you said we won't get any player back, it will be a trade for picks and prospects, which means we will give away our 2023 playoffs. To be totally honest with you, I think JR blew this big time. Seems like they did not have a concrete plan on how to deal with Miller and BO. I think they got lucky with Miller because he came back and took less than he wanted and they got him signed. If Miller had done the same as BO the Canucks would have been totally screwed right now. I don't believe they had any intention of signing both players unless both were signed to team friendly deals. I think they are stuck right now and have turned this into a huge media circus which is going to affect this team. People are saying they are not in a rush but I don't believe it. I think they want this situation dealt with one way or another as quickly as possible. There is a small chance that JR caves and gives BO what he wants. We will find out soon I think. What does it matter to JR? The guy's not going to be here long term. But I also think your right in that, maybe JR did fuck this situation up royally. He got lucky as you say with Miller, since he caved and signed a "cheaper" deal long term. I hope that's the case with Bo too, that he takes a little less, so that he can remain a Canuck, but the dollars have to make sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: What does it matter to JR? The guy's not going to be here long term. But I also think your right in that, maybe JR did fuck this situation up royally. He got lucky as you say with Miller, since he caved and signed a "cheaper" deal long term. I hope that's the case with Bo too, that he takes a little less, so that he can remain a Canuck, but the dollars have to make sense. Well JR is the President of this team so even though he may not be here long term I am assuming as a Hall of Famer he is professional enough to do what is best for this team now and in the future. If it's true that JR started out with RNH money and BO wants Couturier money then that is a pretty big gap that may be hard to overcome. I think there is a small chance that JR caves but also BO may do the same if he really wants to stay. My hunch is that BO will be traded though, as I believe both sides are not going to move much from their positions. A trade would need to be done sooner than later as teams don't want to mess with their rosters once they are set and then you are waiting for injuries or a coach getting fired and a team wanting to shake up the roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 Trade Bo for Dobson and a good pick then go home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 7 minutes ago, Westcoastcanucks777 said: Trade Bo for Dobson and a good pick then go home Dobson with his current AAV for 3 years plus the premium for RHD? he's worth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>horvat lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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