How far are we from being a playoff contender?

[Rick_theRyper]

This clubs death has been finding cheaper supporting cast players, constantly spending too much on the bottom six. We have a decent mix up front but the Defense is borderline terrible. So lots of work to do.. not to say we couldn't be a playoff team if the right guys have good seasons were easily there but it's a lot of chance still at this point 

[Angry Goose]

Miller played a major role in production. If he goes, scoring I think is going to be a big issue.

 

Canucks NEED Podz & Hogz to be true top 6 difference makers,  if Miller is traded. 

 

If the Canucks commit to Boeser, I think EP / Horvat / Boeser has to be a productive 1st line.  Or is EP a true 1st line C? Im not so sure. And I like Horvat in a more offensive role similar to Blake Wheeler. So that leaves holes in 2C and 3C. 

 

Defense needs some re calibration. I really like OEL but without PP1 time is he being utilized effectively? Hughes is the offensive min muncher. Revamping the 2nd pairing to something cheaper, younger that d an play a physical/quick game could be what the D group needs.  Im intrigued what PA/JR will do in terms of defense.

 

Demko is obviously amazing. Martin I like a lot too.

 

 

[hammertime]

26 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

It is real tough to land those RHD so hopefully if a Miller trade is made we get the one we want out of the Rangers or we can move him to LA for one (fingers crossed for 2) of theirs 

I feel like the play is to be patient and draft our own. Moving Miller in a package to NJ for 2OA or Philly for 5OA doubt Nemec/Jiricek will be there by Ott 7OA if we could walk away from this draft with.

 

Nemec/Jiricek

15OA Lian Bichsel

 

Teams may have to eventually take us seriously.

 

If we move Miller we will have to get Horvat some help in the dot. Preferably a defensive C pk specialist. We need Horvat to make this his team to do so he needs more offensive opportunity. 

 

We also need a defensive LD. So ya were back in the Benning ages of overpaying bottom 6ers. But our top 6 is weak af without Miller they will need to be propped up with grinders. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by hammertime

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

22 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I feel like the play is to be patient and draft our own. Moving Miller in a package to NJ for 2OA or Philly for 5OA doubt Nemec/Jiricek will be there by Ott 7OA if we could walk away from this draft with.

 

Nemec/Jiricek

15OA Lian Bichsel

 

Teams may have to eventually take us seriously.

 

If we move Miller we will have to get Horvat some help in the dot. Preferably a defensive C pk specialist. We need Horvat to make this his team to do so he needs more offensive opportunity. 

 

We also need a defensive LD. So ya were back in the Benning ages of overpaying bottom 6ers. But our top 6 is weak af without Miller they will need to be propped up with grinders. 

 

 

 

 

I think we should draft our own as well but I don’t think we are getting either of those picks to land Nemec or Jiricek. We will have to take shots at RHD with later picks this year and make a concerted effort to draft a couple a year and hope a couple

develop into what we need over time. In the short term I think you look to add Schneider++ in a Miller trade to the Rangers or Faber/Grans from the kings, maybe you get stupid lucky and land both of them or one of them and Durzi in a trade 

[hammertime]

19 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

I think we should draft our own as well but I don’t think we are getting either of those picks to land Nemec or Jiricek. We will have to take shots at RHD with later picks this year and make a concerted effort to draft a couple a year and hope a couple

develop into what we need over time. In the short term I think you look to add Schneider++ in a Miller trade to the Rangers or Faber/Grans from the kings, maybe you get stupid lucky and land both of them or one of them and Durzi in a trade 

I ain't trading Miller to LA without Clarke coming back. I don't want to play against Miller all the damn time. I think if the Schneider deal was on the table it would have happened already.   

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, hammertime said:

I ain't trading Miller to LA without Clarke coming back. I don't want to play against Miller all the damn time. I think if the Schneider deal was on the table it would have happened already.   

We already know Schneider wasn’t offered.  It was Chytil, first, and a different young D.  

[aGENT]

17 hours ago, Horvat is a Boss said:

1) Another elite offensive forward.

2) Core 3C, ideally right handed.

3) At least one more strong top-4 RHD. 

4) Overall team grit, size and physicality. 

As for the OP, IMO we're 2-3 years away from contending depending on how quickly/well new management can unravel our issues and build out organizational depth/development to cycle in useable support/role players.

 

I think the elite offensive F can be one of the final pieces. We can see if we can draft or develop one in the next couple years. Heck maybe even a Karlsson/McDonagh/Klimovich etc even surprise and turns in to that guy. If not, wingers are comparatively easy/cheaper to find/sign later.

 

3C ABSOLUTELY! Beyond RD, that's our biggest need by far IMO. Not only does that guy likely help out with things like PK and secondary offense, but he also likely frees up Horvat from taking so many draws AND to likely tilt his play more offensively. I'm hoping we target and acquire Nicolas Roy out of Vegas for that very spot (made a thread in proposals to discuss exactly that, in fact).

 

As for RHD, IMO we need more than just one. Even if we find one guy, Schenn is expiring next season (and is better as a 3rd pair/spare guy if we're being honest) and Myers the year after that. We NEED a succession plan there. BADLY. Hopefully we can trade one of Miller/Garland/Boeser for a guy like Marino and sign a guy like Lyubushkin this summer (while also moving out Myers). Then we need to follow that up and make a better effort drafting and/or finding unsigned college/Euro guys and developing them as well.

 

And yes, totally agree we need more speed, size, grit and guys who can PK in our bottom 6/9 that don't break the bank. Hopefully given Pittsburgh's track record with finding/developing those guys, management has brought some of that ability here. Between that and our expanded analytics department, I hope to see more diamonds in the rough unearthed in those roles.

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I ain't trading Miller to LA without Clarke coming back. I don't want to play against Miller all the damn time. I think if the Schneider deal was on the table it would have happened already.   

I'd do it for a package with Grans.

[Alflives]

.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Alflives

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

29 minutes ago, hammertime said:

I ain't trading Miller to LA without Clarke coming back. I don't want to play against Miller all the damn time. I think if the Schneider deal was on the table it would have happened already.   

I know Schneider wasn’t in the deal but that’s the only way I make a move with the Rangers, I’d look to revisit that and see what happens this off-season. Clarke is obviously the piece you want I just don’t see the Kings parting with him. If we get a good enough package I’m fine trading Miller in the division and LA can put a package together I’d be happy with while excluding Clarke. If Clarke is in the deal then that’s obviously the move to make from the Canucks stand point 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

26 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'd do it for a package with Grans.

I’m right there with you. Grans and Turcotte in the deal would make me way too happy but LA could very well not be into that 

[aGENT]

15 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

I’m right there with you. Grans and Turcotte in the deal would make me way too happy but LA could very well not be into that 

 

Heck, Faber might actually be a better fit for us, if less "exciting". And being less exciting might actually make him more attainable.

 

By no means should anybody be "Clarke or bust". Like you said, LA could EASILY make numerous packages that have Clarke nowhere near them, that I'd be PERFECTLY fine with.

[DownUndaCanuck]

When you look at the final 4 teams, we're pretty far off. Are our top guys as good as the top guys currently playing? Probably not. Are Petey/Horvat/Miller on the same level as MacKinnon/Kadri/Rantanen or McDavid/Draisaitl or Kucherov/Stamkos? Not close.

 

I think we have depth though, but are they as clutch as Tampa's guys like Palat? Probably not. Probably better than the Oiler's though.

 

What about our defence. Hughes is as good offensively as anyone out there right now, defensively are we strong enough? I think OEL, Myers and Schenn are pretty decent but nowhere near as strong and tough as Tampa or NYR's defence. They're better than Edmonton and arguably better defensively than Colorado's though.

 

Finally the key factor - Demko is better than them all except for maybe Igor or Vasy.

 

Realistically to become a contender we need our top guys to elevate their play - Horvat, Miller, Petey and Brock all have what it takes, they just have to become bigger and better in the playoffs. We've seen it from Horvat in the bubble previously and I think J.T can play as a big strong playoff powerforward too (the way Kesler did). Our defence really needs a top guy and a 3rd line center would help with that depth.

[DeNiro]

10 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

When you look at the final 4 teams, we're pretty far off. Are our top guys as good as the top guys currently playing? Probably not. Are Petey/Horvat/Miller on the same level as MacKinnon/Kadri/Rantanen or McDavid/Draisaitl or Kucherov/Stamkos? Not close.

 

I think we have depth though, but are they as clutch as Tampa's guys like Palat? Probably not. Probably better than the Oiler's though.

 

What about our defence. Hughes is as good offensively as anyone out there right now, defensively are we strong enough? I think OEL, Myers and Schenn are pretty decent but nowhere near as strong and tough as Tampa or NYR's defence. They're better than Edmonton and arguably better defensively than Colorado's though.

 

Finally the key factor - Demko is better than them all except for maybe Igor or Vasy.

 

Realistically to become a contender we need our top guys to elevate their play - Horvat, Miller, Petey and Brock all have what it takes, they just have to become bigger and better in the playoffs. We've seen it from Horvat in the bubble previously and I think J.T can play as a big strong playoff powerforward too (the way Kesler did). Our defence really needs a top guy and a 3rd line center would help with that depth.

100% spot on. 

[Boudrias]

7 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

When you look at the final 4 teams, we're pretty far off. Are our top guys as good as the top guys currently playing? Probably not. Are Petey/Horvat/Miller on the same level as MacKinnon/Kadri/Rantanen or McDavid/Draisaitl or Kucherov/Stamkos? Not close.

 

I think we have depth though, but are they as clutch as Tampa's guys like Palat? Probably not. Probably better than the Oiler's though.

 

What about our defence. Hughes is as good offensively as anyone out there right now, defensively are we strong enough? I think OEL, Myers and Schenn are pretty decent but nowhere near as strong and tough as Tampa or NYR's defence. They're better than Edmonton and arguably better defensively than Colorado's though.

 

Finally the key factor - Demko is better than them all except for maybe Igor or Vasy.

 

Realistically to become a contender we need our top guys to elevate their play - Horvat, Miller, Petey and Brock all have what it takes, they just have to become bigger and better in the playoffs. We've seen it from Horvat in the bubble previously and I think J.T can play as a big strong playoff powerforward too (the way Kesler did). Our defence really needs a top guy and a 3rd line center would help with that depth.

If the bolded was true then why the regular fire drills in the d-zone for most of the year? Yes, better under Boudreau. My vision for the d-core is a 1RD to compliment Hughes and a better offensive 2RD. 

[DS4quality]

Honestly being a contender changes yearly. 

Did anyone think Dallas was a contender 2 years ago?

Was Montréal a contender last year? 

Colorado is just starting to pull it together and they're "always" a contender that is on the way to their first finals in 20 years.  There's a myth that you have to be built a certain way to be a cup contender. But it really all comes down to who is firing on all cylinders when it matters most.

If you aren't in the finals you're not a true contender.

Edited June 6, 2022 by DS4quality

[ShawnAntoski]

20 hours ago, hammertime said:

I ain't trading Miller to LA without Clarke coming back. I don't want to play against Miller all the damn time. I think if the Schneider deal was on the table it would have happened already.   

Rags are clicking in the playoffs and will probably not revisit a Miller trade - unless, the Bolts can eliminate them (easily).  

[Fanuck]

11 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

When you look at the final 4 teams, we're pretty far off. Are our top guys as good as the top guys currently playing? Probably not. Are Petey/Horvat/Miller on the same level as MacKinnon/Kadri/Rantanen or McDavid/Draisaitl or Kucherov/Stamkos? Not close.

 

I think we have depth though, but are they as clutch as Tampa's guys like Palat? Probably not. Probably better than the Oiler's though.

 

What about our defence. Hughes is as good offensively as anyone out there right now, defensively are we strong enough? I think OEL, Myers and Schenn are pretty decent but nowhere near as strong and tough as Tampa or NYR's defence. They're better than Edmonton and arguably better defensively than Colorado's though.

 

Finally the key factor - Demko is better than them all except for maybe Igor or Vasy.

 

Realistically to become a contender we need our top guys to elevate their play - Horvat, Miller, Petey and Brock all have what it takes, they just have to become bigger and better in the playoffs. We've seen it from Horvat in the bubble previously and I think J.T can play as a big strong playoff powerforward too (the way Kesler did). Our defence really needs a top guy and a 3rd line center would help with that depth.

Agreed.

We need to be better at every position and the one position we have an advantage in, we have zero depth. 

At this point we don't even know how our top guys would do in a 'normal' playoff environment as they've not have meaningful experience in that scenario.    

We need to add size and guys who are built to grind as the first two rounds are a battle of attrition and the following rounds are all about who makes the least mistakes and executes their game plans better. 

I believe we're close to being a regular playoff team - but close to being a perennial contender like JR said he wants to build - we're a ways away from that in my view. 

[awalk]

Contender for the playoffs or contender for the cup? 

 

I think we are seeing what generally happens to the 'anything can happen' teams with the Oilers right now, they don't have the depth to stand up against the Avalanche. Miracles can happen, I spose.

[Putgolzin]

I'm thinking about this question through the lens of the 2011 team.

At the end of that regular season we were playing with a machine-like, crushing consistency that I had always admired from the Red Wings in their best days.

Now when I look at our team, I really think we're only a couple of pieces and a couple of years away from that (assuming we don't strip things down again).

For most of the great players on that team, we have a comparable player (even if a Boeser isn't as good as a Daniel Sedin, or even if Petey needs a couple more years to be as good as Henrik). But I think in a couple years Petey-Miller-Boeser is a better line that Sedin-Sedin-Burrows (call me crazy).

The only place it really drops off badly is on D. OEL and Hughes are pretty great in comparison with Edler and Hamhuis, but our right side with Ehrhoff, Bieksa and Salo was awesome.

But if we could somehow add a really great RHD and a really great 3C (ie: similar to Malhotra) without losing Miller or otherwise blowing up the team, I think we could really be on a good development path once some of our younger guys grow up a bit.