Jump to content
The Official Site of the Vancouver Canucks
Canucks Community

Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW


avelanch

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Timbermen said:

Sutter was terrible last night, they have him to kill penalties and he takes a lazy one in the offensive zone. Motte, Beagle, Horvat, Rousell and Pearson can kill penalties and Virtanen can replace the speed and 40 points from the third line they were so glaringly missing last night.

The Jets are an example of outcoaching Green. They had beat the Canucks 10 times in a row before last nights game and 14 of the last 15. I think it's because Maurice is a smarter coach, i hope i'm wrong and it's just one of those hockey things. Some teams just match up well against others.

That being said, i see why he likes Sutter in the lineup. Veteran that gives you a 5th centre man incase of injury. Kills penalties and is a good face-off man but if you're going to bench Virtanen for being rusty while Sutter had that showing and  the entire team looked bad, he should get back in the lineup but the only spot is Sutter's. I wouldn't scratch anyone else so to me, the spots up for grabs between Tuna,MacEwen and Sutter.

Which one of them gives the Canucks a better chance to win? Be honest, One was on pace for 20 goals 20 assists from the third line (13 minutes a game average ice time) with little PP time and the other had 7 goals 9 assists in just under 50 games. Yet Sutter was always a PP option before Virtanen. Sutter is a good penalty killer but not when he's taking bad penalties 200 feet from his own goal.

I like MacEwen and want him to be a regular next season. I'd iike to see him in the playoffs but i'm not sure it makes sense scratching Virtanen unless he came into camp out of shape which didn't seem to be the case in the few scrimmage clips on twitter. He was getting breakaways and putting up points.

 

 

.... or Green knows more about coaching and how the players were prepared

and performing in camp than we do?

 

The other bottom six playing terribly does not mean Virtanen would have been, or is a better option.   The alternative narrative of him just being worse than them is equally if not more plausible, and the coaches picked the team with the greatest chance of winning.

 

I have said all along that Virtanen probably gets into the lineup for game 1 (though I had pretty much counted Ferrand out in that calculation) just that he would have a short leash.

 

We have 5 games, and we don’t have the long runway of training camp,  exhibition games, and the first month or so of the season  it took for Virtanen to finally catch up and start performing last season. 

 

I guess I just trust the coaching staff who got career years out of a bunch of the guys on the team more than you do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Timbermen said:

Sutter was terrible last night, they have him to kill penalties and he takes a lazy one in the offensive zone. Motte, Beagle, Horvat, Rousell and Pearson can kill penalties and Virtanen can replace the speed and 40 points from the third line they were so glaringly missing last night.

The Jets are an example of outcoaching Green. They had beat the Canucks 10 times in a row before last nights game and 14 of the last 15. I think it's because Maurice is a smarter coach, i hope i'm wrong and it's just one of those hockey things. Some teams just match up well against others.

That being said, i see why he likes Sutter in the lineup. Veteran that gives you a 5th centre man incase of injury. Kills penalties and is a good face-off man but if you're going to bench Virtanen for being rusty while Sutter had that showing and  the entire team looked bad, he should get back in the lineup but the only spot is Sutter's. I wouldn't scratch anyone else so to me, the spots up for grabs between Tuna,MacEwen and Sutter.

Which one of them gives the Canucks a better chance to win? Be honest, One was on pace for 20 goals 20 assists from the third line (13 minutes a game average ice time) with little PP time and the other had 7 goals 9 assists in just under 50 games. Yet Sutter was always a PP option before Virtanen. Sutter is a good penalty killer but not when he's taking bad penalties 200 feet from his own goal.

I like MacEwen and want him to be a regular next season. I'd iike to see him in the playoffs but i'm not sure it makes sense scratching Virtanen unless he came into camp out of shape which didn't seem to be the case in the few scrimmage clips on twitter. He was getting breakaways and putting up points.

 

 

I don't believe record in a small sample size spread out over years is necessarily indicative of who is the better coach, Maurice has more experience than Green but I haven't been blown away by what he has done while coaching the Jets. He's had some pretty good teams and yet I can only remember them underachieving in the playoffs. Now I am not particularly impressed by Green either, while I am not on the 'Fire Green' train, I do have him on short leash. We don't have 9 forwards better than Virtanen, let alone 13. Green going back to his AHL days has a propensity to stick with the plugs who can make the safe play over the players with the talent to actually impact the game. I can't deny I was irked when i saw that Jake was scratched. If it is a matter of fitness then I have no issue with it, team culture takes precedence over everything else. But if Green really believed that the lineup that he iced gave us the best chance to win then he maybe the problem and Benning had better start scouring for solutions.

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/28/2020 at 11:34 AM, Moose Nuckle said:

People losing their minds over something not going their way and people losing there minds over a differing opinion. 

 

Doesnt seem that outrageous to say the two might be related.

 

I never said it was you, unless "us" means the people in Van because it did happen.

 

Stating facts doesnt discredit me. It may hurt feelings but I didn't point at anyone and say you did it.

 

Stereotyping and me saying they burned their city down isnt the same. Someone did burn the city down. People who couldn't handle a loss. They.

 

Rather than mob mentality attacking a person/city with a result you dont like, or a different opinion, people should learn to listen/react without flying off handles. 

 

I am happy to say I dont agree with the people who burnt down Van and I wont try to hide them or protect them.

Who flew off the handle?  

 

And many who rioted cared little about the game and had pre-planned it.  Had nothing to do with "handling a loss" or not so please stay on topic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Provost said:

.... or Green knows more about coaching and how the players were prepared

and performing in camp than we do?

 

The other bottom six playing terribly does not mean Virtanen would have been, or is a better option.   The alternative narrative of him just being worse than them is equally if not more plausible, and the coaches picked the team with the greatest chance of winning.

 

I have said all along that Virtanen probably gets into the lineup for game 1 (though I had pretty much counted Ferrand out in that calculation) just that he would have a short leash.

 

We have 5 games, and we don’t have the long runway of training camp,  exhibition games, and the first month or so of the season  it took for Virtanen to finally catch up and start performing last season. 

 

I guess I just trust the coaching staff who got career years out of a bunch of the guys on the team more than you do.

Sutter was absolute trash last game, can't even keep up and the player that shows up and pulls his groin every training camp because he shows up out of shape. 

MacEwen is going to be good but he's not quite there yet and Sutter was trash last night so Virtanen is by far the best option. It's a no brainer. 

 

Edited by Timbermen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

Who flew off the handle?  

 

And many who rioted cared little about the game and had pre-planned it.  Had nothing to do with "handling a loss" or not so please stay on topic.

Ditto, this has been settled already. I was referring to the people stalking me and calling me names for a week on here.

 

Excited to see Jake. 

Edited by Moose Nuckle
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very discouraging Jake was benched. Makes you wonder if some things happened behind the scenes you don't know about. 

Honestly though, Sutter doesn't look like himself. I would sit him and play Jake. That's not knowing what Green does.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

Very discouraging Jake was benched. Makes you wonder if some things happened behind the scenes you don't know about. 

Honestly though, Sutter doesn't look like himself. I would sit him and play Jake. That's not knowing what Green does.

I think they need to play Jake and yes, Sutter might be the obvious to sit. I really hope that sitting in the only exhibition game, might be a wake up call for Jake. He really needs to buckle down and focus on hockey, even when they aren't playing hockey.

  • Cheers 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I think they need to play Jake and yes, Sutter might be the obvious to sit. I really hope that sitting in the only exhibition game, might be a wake up call for Jake. He really needs to buckle down and focus on hockey, even when they aren't playing hockey.

I didn't get to see the whole game but if Sutter is truly looking like he lost a step, then that might indeed be how Jake returns to the line-up.  As much as I like MacEwen, I personally think it will be hard for Green to play him over Jake if they end up sitting Sutter, particularly against the Wild.  The Wild are a big strong team but with good speed as well.  MacEwen has decent speed for a big guy but Jake has great speed and, despite having defensive lapses, has been pointed out as a player who can be very effectively defensively using his speed and body 5 on 5.  If both Beagle and Sutter have slowed down, then between the two I would expect Beagle to stay in the line-up and we could see a 4th line of Motte-Beagle-Virtanen.  The main problem for Jake is that he has not been trusted for PK, but if that's the main issue for inserting him rather than MacEwen if Sutter sits, then I don't see why MacEwen would be trusted much more than Jake in that role.

 

Jake scored 18 goals this year and was having a solid season.  He's frustrating to watch because he has all the tools to be a great player but just hasn't put it all together for long stretches.  This was the first season where we saw very good play from him for a decent stretch of time, and when he's on his game, he's perfect for the playoffs.

 

If coaching staff ends up going with Sutter or MacEwen then, to me at least, that seems a bit harsh to Jake.  I get why they may feel the need to do that and Jake should not be taking anything for granted.  Hopefully this fires him up in practice and gets him playing time because if Jake is fired up and on his game, I honestly think he will be the best option to help the team win between Sutter or MacEwen (at least right now).

  • Cheers 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I didn't get to see the whole game but if Sutter is truly looking like he lost a step, then that might indeed be how Jake returns to the line-up.  As much as I like MacEwen, I personally think it will be hard for Green to play him over Jake if they end up sitting Sutter, particularly against the Wild.  The Wild are a big strong team but with good speed as well.  MacEwen has decent speed for a big guy but Jake has great speed and, despite having defensive lapses, has been pointed out as a player who can be very effectively defensively using his speed and body 5 on 5.  If both Beagle and Sutter have slowed down, then between the two I would expect Beagle to stay in the line-up and we could see a 4th line of Motte-Beagle-Virtanen.  The main problem for Jake is that he has not been trusted for PK, but if that's the main issue for inserting him rather than MacEwen if Sutter sits, then I don't see why MacEwen would be trusted much more than Jake in that role.

 

Jake scored 18 goals this year and was having a solid season.  He's frustrating to watch because he has all the tools to be a great player but just hasn't put it all together for long stretches.  This was the first season where we saw very good play from him for a decent stretch of time, and when he's on his game, he's perfect for the playoffs.

 

If coaching staff ends up going with Sutter or MacEwen then, to me at least, that seems a bit harsh to Jake.  I get why they may feel the need to do that and Jake should not be taking anything for granted.  Hopefully this fires him up in practice and gets him playing time because if Jake is fired up and on his game, I honestly think he will be the best option to help the team win between Sutter or MacEwen (at least right now).

They're not leaving Jake out of the lineup, I think that was pretty clear last night.  Sutter looks like he might be injured, Roussel, aside from a goal, was completely ineffective, Mac isn't a full time NHL player yet and Motte was pretty much onvisible.  In the bottom 6, the only noticeable players were Beagle, Ferland and Gaud and Gaud needs to be sheltered defensively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I didn't get to see the whole game but if Sutter is truly looking like he lost a step, then that might indeed be how Jake returns to the line-up.  As much as I like MacEwen, I personally think it will be hard for Green to play him over Jake if they end up sitting Sutter, particularly against the Wild.  The Wild are a big strong team but with good speed as well.  MacEwen has decent speed for a big guy but Jake has great speed and, despite having defensive lapses, has been pointed out as a player who can be very effectively defensively using his speed and body 5 on 5.  If both Beagle and Sutter have slowed down, then between the two I would expect Beagle to stay in the line-up and we could see a 4th line of Motte-Beagle-Virtanen.  The main problem for Jake is that he has not been trusted for PK, but if that's the main issue for inserting him rather than MacEwen if Sutter sits, then I don't see why MacEwen would be trusted much more than Jake in that role.

 

Jake scored 18 goals this year and was having a solid season.  He's frustrating to watch because he has all the tools to be a great player but just hasn't put it all together for long stretches.  This was the first season where we saw very good play from him for a decent stretch of time, and when he's on his game, he's perfect for the playoffs.

 

If coaching staff ends up going with Sutter or MacEwen then, to me at least, that seems a bit harsh to Jake.  I get why they may feel the need to do that and Jake should not be taking anything for granted.  Hopefully this fires him up in practice and gets him playing time because if Jake is fired up and on his game, I honestly think he will be the best option to help the team win between Sutter or MacEwen (at least right now).

I'm not sure that Sutter has lost a step, or if its just shaking off the rust. I agree that if there's an opportunity to move him in the off season, its time to, but I'm not sure how movable he is right now with the flat cap.

 

I love Jake's game when he's actually playing his game. He's fast and effective on the fore check and the back check, but I think he really needs a kick in the ass to try and get him to be more consistent in bringing his game every night. If he can be consistent, he's a very effective player for us, I'm not sure what's holding him back, I keep hoping to see him start driving the game, no matter what line he's on, he has that potential to elevate the players around him with his speed. I'm not sure if a change of scenery wouldn't be a good thing for Jake as a player and if it might shake him a little. Is it possible that he feels a overly comfortable and maybe sheltered playing in Vancouver with family around him? Maybe. I see a little of Evander Kane in Jake, a player who really needs to make that mental decision that he's going to do whatever is necessary, EVERY day, to be as ready as he possibly can for the coming game and making sure that guys above him in Top 6 positions, are looking over their shoulder at him.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Provost said:

I think just using the overall season totals hides a lot of the reality as far as Jake’s progression goes.  It hasn’t been slow and steady, it has been a roller coaster.

 

He has improved point totals year over year, but he has also been wildly inconsistent within each of those years.  None more so than this past season.

 

For the first third of the season he was no better than he has been in past years.  Basically a .25-.33 PPG player... which is a 20-30 point pace over a season.  Not like great for a guy who gets PP time.

 

The middle third he played amazingly and gave a taste of what he has the potential to be.  He was almost a PPG player over about 6 weeks which is by far his longest stretch of solid play in his career.  It coincided with Roussel coming back onto his line, and they kind of hit a groove.  Jake played exactly like the coach has been publicly imploring him to for years.  He used his size and speed to rush the puck into the zone and drove to the net.  A simple and effective formula.  More often than not, this resulted in him or one of his line mates popping in a greasy goal off a rebound.  He even made some passes and showed some playmaking that had never been part of his arsenal.

 

The final third of the season he was on an atrociously bad pace that was below his career average.  He went back to his old habits of rushing up the ice and either over skating the puck, or letting the opposing D angle him off where he ended up just circling behind their net and then coughing up the puck with a bad pass.  

 

So it is a real conundrum.  Is there a chance he can regularly be that Jake we saw for 6 weeks?  Or is he the Jake we have seen for the other 4 years of his career?

 

Some folks still hope for the best, more seem to be betting that he just is what he is.  Him sitting in the press box last night while we were able to even dress an extra forward doesn’t instill any confidence, even if it ends up just being a motivational ploy by Green and Jake will really be in the lineup for the Minnesota series.  In his 5th year he shouldn’t have to be taught those lessons still.

 

Just like you talked about Goldobin being pushed out of the lineup because of the team getting better, that seems to be the trajectory for Virtanen as well.  He is fighting with Ferland, and MacEwan for a bottom 6 winger spot, and a couple months into next season when the KHL is done, he will be fighting Podkolzin as well... with Hoglander also in the mix (several of the guys play both sides so they are all fighting for 2-3 open winger spots).  
 

If we sign Toffoli, I don’t see any way Virtanen is on our team next year.  There is neither the roster spot or cap space to carry him.  If Toffoli doesn’t sign here, then I still see Virtanen swapped next season for a D that a team would otherwise lose in the expansion draft.  There are just too many bodies fighting for his spot in the lineup and most of them will be at a much cheaper cap hit.

 

If Jake doesn’t play in these playoffs... I despair about what any potential trade value he would have.

 

 

I'd like to also add that its not hard to improve your totals year after year when the bar was set low to begin with.

 

I like Jake and hope that he eventually succeeds.  But the hope that he becomes a 35 to 40 goal and 80 point per season player is fading fast.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jake is (will be) a 20-25 goal scorer, who plays with speed and lays out punishing hits. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, he's a real nice asset to have. Maybe we Canucks fans have been a little spoiled with the Saint-like Sedin twins for all those years. Sharing their wealth, time, energy, their lives to helping others - all while breaking Canucks records. Legendary.

 

A lot of teams have guys like Jake though. Good players, but maybe like to party and have a good time. Patrick Kane was like this when he was young. Evander Kane was like this not long ago. What is it with the Kanes?

 

I guess as long as he shows up every game and gives his all, produces, then we can't really complain. Well, I suppose we could, but why? Jake will eventually grow out of that lifestyle (he needs a good woman IMO, not some dancer named Candi).

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Jake is (will be) a 20-25 goal scorer, who plays with speed and lays out punishing hits. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, he's a real nice asset to have. Maybe we Canucks fans have been a little spoiled with the Saint-like Sedin twins for all those years. Sharing their wealth, time, energy, their lives to helping others - all while breaking Canucks records. Legendary.

 

A lot of teams have guys like Jake though. Good players, but maybe like to party and have a good time. Patrick Kane was like this when he was young. Evander Kane was like this not long ago. What is it with the Kanes?

 

I guess as long as he shows up every game and gives his all, produces, then we can't really complain. Well, I suppose we could, but why? Jake will eventually grow out of that lifestyle (he needs a good woman IMO, not some dancer named Candi).

Jake needs to grow up fast or else he's probably gone at least that's what Rick Dhaliwal and Don Taylor have been saying.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Timbermen said:

Sutter was absolute trash last game

I think you are missing the point.

 

Sutter has been bad for quite some time there is zero surprise, but he still outplayed Jake to earn a roster spot last night.  That isn’t a mitigating circumstance for Virtanen, it is an aggravating one.

 

We have an objectify bad and hugely overpaid bottom six.

 

... and Virtanen can’t crack that lineup.  He isn’t going head to head with Stamkos for a job... he is competing against guys who are barely NHLers and he is losing out.


Green has been coaching him since 2014 and knows exactly what Jake can and can’t provide on the ice more than anyone else.... and it ain’t like Green just doesn’t like him and isn’t giving him chances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Provost said:

I think you are missing the point.

 

Sutter has been bad for quite some time there is zero surprise, but he still outplayed Jake to earn a roster spot last night.  That isn’t a mitigating circumstance for Virtanen, it is an aggravating one.

 

We have an objectify bad and hugely overpaid bottom six.

 

... and Virtanen can’t crack that lineup.  He isn’t going head to head with Stamkos for a job... he is competing against guys who are barely NHLers and he is losing out.


Green has been coaching him since 2014 and knows exactly what Jake can and can’t provide on the ice more than anyone else.... and it ain’t like Green just doesn’t like him and isn’t giving him chances.

Yep 20 goals and 40 points with 13:00 average icetime, 4th in hits, one of the best Takeaway/giveaway ratio's. No PP time, yep he's sure a bad player but he had more points than Sutter, Ericksson and McEwen/Ferland combined this season. The players he can't compete with all of the sudden. Green still has to prove he can win, didn't look like he had them ready last night, maybe he should focus on getting EVERYBODY ready, not just Jake.

  • Haha 1
  • Wat 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, warrchief said:

Jake needs to grow up fast or else he's probably gone at least that's what Rick Dhaliwal and Don Taylor have been saying

Sadly, it is their job to speculate. So much "reporting" now is trying to start gossip and rumours. Sports Journalism is about soundbites and click bait now. Where have all the cowboys gone?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The conversation seems to be stuck on whether or not Virtanen should make the lineup as a 4th line right winger. Why not consider him on the left side in Roussel's spot? I don't see Roussel as being much better or more disciplined than Virtanen, and Virtanen has had success when cutting down the left side. I suspect part of it is because Green hasn't seen enough (in fact, any) of Virtanen on left wing. If so, is that not more of an indictment of Green? In any case, Green's handling of Virtanen has been really questionable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, warrchief said:

Jake needs to grow up fast or else he's probably gone at least that's what Rick Dhaliwal and Don Taylor have been saying.

It was my understanding Dhaliwal was called out for "fake news" recently. And he was apart of that stupid Boeser rumor thing too right? At this point his word means less than Eklund's in my books. Don Taylor, as much as I like him, is another radio personality. I figured we'd learned our lesson and would take what radio folks say with a silo of salt.

 

I will say Jake needs to take hockey more seriously, but he scored 18 goals and averaged a point every other game in a 3rd line role. We aren't exactly swimming in bottom 6 scoring talent. Unless you want all your hopes and dreams laying on Gaudette to perform that bottom 6 scoring role solo. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...