Interesting Take on the Loss of Markstrom

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Yes, such a shrimp at 6' 200lbs.

I think there's only one other goalie of note in the NHL, Quick in LA. That does tell you some thing. DiPietro is a reflex goalie and sadly reflex are an early failing with age. But he'll be good for a number of years

[Fred65]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

Yes, such a shrimp at 6' 200lbs.

I think there's only one other goalie of note in the NHL, Quick in LA. That does tell you some thing. DiPietro is a reflex goalie and sadly reflex are an early failing with age. But he'll be good for a number of years

[Fred65]

Mikey D I'm with you on that assessment. Not many goalies of that class are given up on for nothing. I think we'll find he'll be missed more than the loss of Tanev for instance. Fans keep going on about RHD but pass over on Markstrom. Demko, we hope is good but if fans are honest when Markstron went down at the end of the regular season Demko did not excel. He had an unbelievable run for  3 game in the play-offs. The question is which Demko do we get. It best be play-off Demko or we're in trouble. IMO it goes down to poor Cap Management. We new his contract was coming up and we new as Valliquette  pointed out Vcr had an exceptional goalie. I tend to believe we'll see more Holtby that we expected, lets hope he finds his game again with the aide of Clarke. One thing for sure Calgary is going to be  a lot better, you can count on that

[MikeyD]

24 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I am not really here to disagree with you?

 

NVM, yes I am. 

 

Look? The essence of both Demko & Dipietro's game is freakish athleticism.  Demko with size. Mike with even more absurd agility.  

 

And when I watch Mikey he play.  He has been the more free form. Swing out waaaay out of his crease to challenge a shooter. Use said athleticism to get back for the highlight save when the puck was reversed across ice. He is closer to Jonathan Quick in his prime? You cannot move the puck faster than Mikey can keep up! Than a fundamental / technical never out of position goalie. 

 

If anything Demko is the more technical goalie.  

I understand what you're saying and you're right, it's just a matter of how you interpreted my meanings. They're both freakish athletically, but Depietro relies on his athleticism a lot less from a single shooter vs goalie metric because he's better from a technical standpoint (positioning, positioning limbs to certain angles, etc.). He's calmer in net than Demko was at his age. More of the Carey Price aspects because he isn't the biggest goaltender so he has to be more flawless in the technicals than Demko needed to be. In the past couple years though Demko has really improved his technicals to the point of where he is a lot more calm in net and it's definitely benefitting his game. Against Vegas you saw what a more in controlled Demko was capable of. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by MikeyD

[JeremyCuddles]

NMC is easily the back breaker part of the deal. Guy was a top 5-7 goalie the last year and some change. It's gonna suck to stare him down if he can maintain this play. There are a lot of hopefuls that are hoping without our goalie coach he's gonna fall off a massive cliff.

[Fred65]

33 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

I understand what you're saying and you're right, it's just a matter of how you interpreted my meanings. They're both freakish athletically, but Depietro relies on his athleticism a lot less from a single shooter vs goalie metric because he's better from a technical standpoint (positioning, positioning limbs to certain angles, etc.). He's calmer in net than Demko was at his age. More of the Carey Price aspects because he isn't the biggest goaltender so he has to be more flawless in the technicals than Demko needed to be. In the past couple years though Demko has really improved his technicals to the point of where he is a lot more calm in net and it's definitely benefitting his game. Against Vegas you saw what a more in controlled Demko was capable of. 

Small thing, with Dipietro size he is forced to come out further cover as much net as Markstrom or Demko. You just know goalie pro scouts will be looking for these flaws to exploit. It's tough to exploit Markstrom he just doesn't have many flaws. I believe we'll appreciate Markstrom when he's playing for Calgary 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Marky was on fire the last two seasons, but it also took him a while to get there. Including a memorable stint in Utica not long after we acquired him. 

 

I'd say Demko's probably further along than Marky was at the same age, his development has been consistent and he's taken big steps forward at each level he's reached. I fully expect him to continue progressing. Coming up in Florida's system of all places didn't help Marky much. His game basically had to be rebuilt once he was acquired by Vancouver. 

 

Having Holtby as a buffer for Demko is huge, I was hoping he'd be the guy we landed to work in tandem and was thrilled when he signed. Yes, Marky masked some problems this team had last season, but all of our young guys should be a year better and the addition of Schmidt alleviates some of the burden from Edler and Myers. A healthy Roussel should help too, he's a more effective player than he showed (in part due to injuries) last season. Hell, if Juolevi can step in and play stable bottom pairing minutes that's an improvement as well. He's got a higher floor than Troy ever had. 

 

Needless to say, I'll miss Marky but I think we'll be just fine without him. 

Contrary to Burke’s goalies graveyard comment...Vancouver has had decent goaltending for a long time now pretty much.  Not always great but even Dan Cloutier had his moments.  You can point to solid goalie development/coaching lasting thru several management (GM) changes covering over a decade in time.  Reason why I  see Demko’s chances as being a good heir apparent.

[wai_lai416]

Very very few nhl goalie thats not a big name continues to play well into their 30s.. very few.. most of the goalie in the good/great category declines as soon as they hit the 30s.. look at the one we signed.. he was great for couple years and even won a cup with caps.. then hes been regressing ever since and he's just 31

[Nuxfanabroad]

Within the overall context of C4(that Crazy Covid Cap-Crunch!) it seems inevitable many teams would/will lose valuable assets. We're not exempt.

 

It's interesting to date back a yr & a half, observing significant assets we've lost & gained. Going forward, we've obviously shifted focus on younger contributors(under 25; many still prospects), as opposed to the 'rickety' vets, oft-injured, who helped us bridge over some lean seasons.

 

Gains: JT Miller, Nate Schmidt, Brayden Holtby, an impressive PO-run(best of all Cdn squads)

 

Losses: a 1st r pick, Toffoli(or 2nd & good prospect), Jacob, Tanev

 

How many franchises have gained more than they've lost(past yr or two)? Teams like CBJ, Avs & Canes come to mind..but they'll have their own cap-stresses soon.

Overall, I'd say we've fared pretty darn nicely. Optimistic for the long haul.

[nergish]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

when Markstron went down at the end of the regular season Demko did not excel. 

Getting a little tired of this narrative. 

Thatcher was a Rookie last year - a top 15 Rookie in the league, in my estimation.

Holding him accountable for not "excelling" when Markstrom went down is really odd to me. He had a good overall season as a backup, and a great season for a Rookie goaltender.

If he went on a magical run at that stage in the season, we would still be uncertain of what the future holds for him. It's all unknown for an unproven commodity.

 

But with him it's about past history at other levels, the eye-test, and the way his teammates talk about him. He was proven very little at the NHL level, but he's proven enough to this stage to know you just can't give him away for free. 

Markstrom took until age 28-29 to find his game.

Thatcher hasn't missed a step at any point thus far in his development, and that playoff performance did not happen by accident.

 

I'm gonna miss Marky too, but we simply couldn't match that contract without crippling the team long term. 

[teepain]

Best recipe is to spend the least on goaltending and building a heavy defense . 
 

in a salary cap era

 

[Canuck Surfer]

28 minutes ago, teepain said:

Best recipe is to spend the least on goaltending and building a heavy defense . 
 

in a salary cap era

 

To a degree?

 

Chicago won 3 cups with average at best to decent, but far from spectacular, goal tending. Depending on the year? GREAT, cough Keith, defense.

 

Boston beat us. They had better defense? And goal tending...

 

Pitt won with ordinary defense. Pretty good tending? Not top shelf. And firebrand, high paced hockey stirred by the worlds most talented pivots.

 

LA had very good goal tending when they won. 

[xereau]

I don't need an eye test to show me that Marky let in the 1st shot. Often. Even last season, several times, and in the playoffs too. I will certainly miss his spectacular efforts after he placed his team in the hole, but I won't miss said holes at all.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 hours ago, nergish said:

Getting a little tired of this narrative. 

Thatcher was a Rookie last year - a top 15 Rookie in the league, in my estimation.

Holding him accountable for not "excelling" when Markstrom went down is really odd to me. He had a good overall season as a backup, and a great season for a Rookie goaltender.

If he went on a magical run at that stage in the season, we would still be uncertain of what the future holds for him. It's all unknown for an unproven commodity.

 

But with him it's about past history at other levels, the eye-test, and the way his teammates talk about him. He was proven very little at the NHL level, but he's proven enough to this stage to know you just can't give him away for free. 

Markstrom took until age 28-29 to find his game.

Thatcher hasn't missed a step at any point thus far in his development, and that playoff performance did not happen by accident.

 

I'm gonna miss Marky too, but we simply couldn't match that contract without crippling the team long term. 

It still brings up a valid off-points.

 

Demko is still very inexperienced. Last year was his first as a back up and some peeps here are expecting a lot out of him in this upcoming season already.

 

We are still gonna have bumps in the road with Demko. I don't think a all Canadian division will help either since he wont get to face more teams in our conference/division but it's better than nothing.

 

The timeframe we've set up for Demko(Holtby for 2 years) means he's gonna have to make progress faster than Marky had too. He showed promise in a bubble setting, where he was for weeks, without fans and in an away arena for both teams. Different from a rowdy away crowd, especially if he was in a place like Vegas. So he's inexperienced in that sort of setting as well(Same for Marky which should be interesting to see when fans return come playoff time).

 

Demko's progress last year came in spurts. He was very inconsistent after a good start to the year(which could also be taken into account to his playoff stint meaning Demko could be a good goalie at the start of the year).

 

An area of focus for him is to be stringing together more good stretches of games like he had at the beginning of the year and in the playoffs(Those were his only 2 good stretches). Doesn't have to play amazing like he had to in the playoffs, just good enough to give the team a good chance to win. If he can gain that sort of consistency then he'll earn Green's trust.

 

The Canucks weren't a great team in front of their goalies last year as well so Demko/Holtby will still probably have that handicap against them. The loss of Tanev/Stecher/Fanta doesn't help in the early run since we're probably gonna go through bumps with our young D replacing them like OJ. Schmidt is a good improvement though but we were begging for another top 4 D before everything went down so that hasn't changed(Hopefully Tryamkin in 2021-22 or OJ really steps up big). Maybe Greener gets everyone to play better team D with the loss of Marky. Marky did cover up a lot of mishaps. 

 

Nevertheless Demko's got a lot of pressure on him. From both the fans and from the organization. I have faith but I am also gonna have patience with Demko considering the circumstances. **My whole point with this spiel was to ease expectations of Demko.**

[Davathor]

All I'm getting from this discussion is we will have a goalie tandem of the next Carey Price and the next Quick

 

Niiice

[theo5789]

8 hours ago, Fred65 said:

Mikey D I'm with you on that assessment. Not many goalies of that class are given up on for nothing. I think we'll find he'll be missed more than the loss of Tanev for instance. Fans keep going on about RHD but pass over on Markstrom. Demko, we hope is good but if fans are honest when Markstron went down at the end of the regular season Demko did not excel. He had an unbelievable run for  3 game in the play-offs. The question is which Demko do we get. It best be play-off Demko or we're in trouble. IMO it goes down to poor Cap Management. We new his contract was coming up and we new as Valliquette  pointed out Vcr had an exceptional goalie. I tend to believe we'll see more Holtby that we expected, lets hope he finds his game again with the aide of Clarke. One thing for sure Calgary is going to be  a lot better, you can count on that

I think this is the disconnect here. We didn't sign Holtby to be a backup. Much like most of our your players, we have signed vets to shelter our young players until they are either ready or force the vet out. If we see Holtby play the starter role (or "more than expected"), this isn't a knock on Demko, this is the expectation to not throw a young player into the fire and properly develop him. We have seen this done with Markstrom himself and have seen his growth, thus the discussion now.

 

Many are dumping on Holtby for his decline. We have heard the same complaints when we traded for Miller. Sometimes a change of scenery is needed and you never know. Also helps that Holtby won't have the lingering talks about how Washington can't afford to keep him and having that distraction of where he may end up. One of the first things Holtby did when he signed was contact Demko. Holtby knows what his role is here and has bought into it.

 

It's funny to hear about cap management when complaining that we didn't sign a 31 year old goalie on a 6 year term with a full NMC (that very recently was knocked out twice due to knee injuries) to a goalie that signed for short term which aligns much better with the growth of our young (cheaper) goaltender and give us the peace of mind knowing which goalie we are protecting in expansion and not be forced into a situation where we have to sell low on a valued commodity. In the meantime, we acquired a top pairing dman from one of the best teams in the league to replace a top 4 dman that we have lost. We certainly wouldn't be the only team that relies more heavily on the top 4 dmen and having a lesser used bottom pair. And with Schmidt, we hopefully play more of a possession game rather than being trapped more often requiring the goaltending to bail us out on a nightly basis.

 

Calgary may have improved in net, but they have gained Tanev on defense and lost Brodie and Hamonic. They are hopeful that a young often injured Finn in Valimaki to make a difference (not much different than OJ for us). Their offense hasn't changed from last season (much like us). I don't see them having that big of improvement and they are relying heavily that Marky will be a difference maker otherwise he could become another anchor for them if he doesn't meet their desired goals.

[BlastPast]

Canucks SV% was .912 last year; if Holtby/Demko can be .910+ goaltending won't drop off. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by BlastPast

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

To a degree?

 

Chicago won 3 cups with average at best to decent, but far from spectacular, goal tending. Depending on the year? GREAT, cough Keith, defense.

 

Boston beat us. They had better defense? And goal tending...

 

Pitt won with ordinary defense. Pretty good tending? Not top shelf. And firebrand, high paced hockey stirred by the worlds most talented pivots.

 

LA had very good goal tending when they won. 

Crawford was and still is criminally underrated.  His teammates know how good he is though.   Better then average at best to decent anyways doesn’t quite do him justice.   Quick has one of the most dominant playoffs the past 20 years for LA, definitely a deserving Smythe winner - of course Thomas too.   PIT was my favourite winner .... they threw all the possession stats out the window and won with letting the other team come in and then counter-attack.    They did it two years in a row which made it even better ... for sure the Crosby/Malkin show, and yes very good goaltending too.   MAF was particularly great (after years of so-so performances) in relief of Murray for their second cup.  
 

Definitely need to be in the upper third of goaltending to get the job done.   Less then that...well not much hope for a cup or even a decent cup run even if your team is stacked.   

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, BlastPast said:

Canucks SV% was .912 last year; if Holtby/Demko can be .910+ goaltending won't drop off. 

As long as we don’t let more pucks through and work on letting less through we should be fine.   Markstrom was great for us last season .... but Demko for sure was the correct play.   

[Mackcanuck]

Canucks shooters know Markstroms weaknesses,

We will ventilate him when we play him!