[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup.  July 1, 2023 Miller will get a six year x 7.5 mil deal.  That’s all the guy is worth at 30 friggin’ years old.  He’s an idiot if he thinks he’s getting more than JR is offering right now.  

Teams would way rather give up assets to get players like Kane, Dubois, and Scheifele.

 

The market that him and his agent thought was there for him just isn’t.

 

And if his goal is to go to a contender good luck getting them to free up cap space to sign him. 
 

Edited August 8, 2022 by DeNiro

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Would we be able to dumperoo Miller for draft picks and clear all his cap?  Let’s do that!

Get off that park bench JR; it’s time to get ‘er done! 

[Metal Face Doom]

Keep praying for these imaginary trades...

[R3aL]

34 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

As I said earlier today, whether Miller is our best, second best or third best player is moot. We can’t afford him, he’s not part of our core, he doesn’t fit with our timeline, and he may bring back valuable assets for our long-term goals, that few other players could provide. We are not re-signing him.

Sing it sister! Gospel 

 

agree word for word 

[Baratheon]

1 minute ago, Metal Face Doom said:

Keep praying for these imaginary trades...

Is that similar to the imaginary signing? 

[R3aL]

29 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats it Alf, thats exactly how I see this thing. The last 2 years of Demko's deal see us clear some major cap in Myers, Pearson and Dickie, perfect timing to make some final additions for two playoff runs.

Should be prime time Hughes and Petey too

[combover]

34 minutes ago, JM_ said:

playoff experience for the young guys is the benefit. That time is dog years for players. 

 

I agree with you in general principle about collecting assets. Sometimes tho the asset value back isn't all that great, and other things like playoff experience matters as much. At least thats how I see it. 

 

when this club is built properly and has any  nhl depth they’ll get the playoff experience.forcing it and losing top assets for nothing  won’t advance this club.

 

Let’s say they get the playoff experience then lose a top player for nothing don’t have the prospects or  assets to replace him and the team struggles to get back in.
that experience means nothing if we aren’t a perennial playoff team and if losing miller now for a futures means we aren’t a playoff team then it means the same next year when he leaves for nothing. Unless we once again over spend on a lesser older ufa and keep the never ending cycle that Jb started running. 

 

I’d like to keep miller and if we were in a position to potentially win a cup I’d totally agree but we aren’t so I see zero value in losing top tier players for nothing. 

If miller resigns for 5 years great 6-8 I feel is a mistake but losing him for nothing to me isn’t even an option regardless of playoff implication this season. 

he coming off a career year 

he’s got no trade protection 

his cap hit is manageable and even more so at the TDL 

and if we retained salary his value would go higher 

we will get more than 1 late round first. 

This whole circus is starting to have that same stink as when Gillis  had a deal for Louie with TO and  ownership said go get more and the deal fell apart. 

. 

 


 

Edited August 8, 2022 by combover

[BPA]

Sedins retired age 37yr.  Their last near ppg was age 34yr.  The last 3 seasons were around 50pts.

 

So take that into consideration.

 

 

[Pure961089]

6 hours ago, Alflives said:

At some point we need to do a serious tank for several years.  I don’t mind going all in for Demko’s four years and then tanking, or tanking now.  If JR and his group think we can win with our young core guys then go all in now.  If they think our young core guys aren’t good enough to win with then start trading them for picks.  Either we sign Miller and tank in four years, or we trade him for picks and tank now.  No more middle of the pack craperolla.  

I agree, at some point. We’ve never been a team that does that.  But I like Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin, Garland, Hoglander, Demko, and Horvat. Even with the accusations we’ve made have been with the 4 year window in mind.  The core here has the potential to be special.  Not saying we can win the cup but the next 4 years building up is going to be fun to watch.

 

 If we trade Miller we have to get another /23  1st rounder 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, Baratheon said:

Samuelsson is retired as well believe it or not.  Bruce Boudreau also doesn't take too many shifts.  They still obviously have a leadership role on the team so I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be.

 

Bo?  Well he (like JT) is only one individual.  I'm not taking that bait though.  Plenty of others have addressed your views on him far better than I could.

 

Age is a legitimate concern around the league.  That's my point.  It might not be concerning to you but you are an outlier in that regard.

Well to be specific , lets call it Captaincy and the level of leadership that should specifically go with it / that.

The Sedins we’re great players but no where near the level of Captaincy I look for in a Captain.

To that I still appreciate everything Stan Smyl was , and still is to this organization.

 Stan, to me , is the pedestal level, or pinnacle of that earned level or privilege to command from.

 

No, I think  age is the outlier,.  How can “I” be.… or my opinion.

 

Youth, the Oilers have tried to build another youthful team for almost 20 years to carry them into the Dynasty books again.

But somehow they’ve managed to have probably as many Cup appearances as they have Lottery appearances.

 

So your saying a team like Tampa,  or others that have great run’s consecutively with many players 29 + yr old are outliers.

interesting.

We can look at Colorado ,  but that’s been a lot of work to get 1 cup win.…and who is to say there is more?

 

The flat cap,  and now talented RFA ‘s having a greater hand in contracts than UFA’s, has Managers afraid to lose talent at every or any contract.

 

im not baiting you,  but if that’s your way sticking to your opinion and exiting the stage that’s fine..  

 

Age is ScareCrow.

 

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Lol. Except Huberdeau and Gaudreau are not comparables, not even close.

 

Hertl is 28 and Zibanejad will be 29 when his deal kicks in.

 

I think you’re missing the part where Miller will be 30 when his deal kicks in. One year makes a big difference when talking about an 8 year contract. That’s one extra year where he’ll likely be performing well under his contract value.

 

Anything else?

 Even if you subtract a year for his age (Huberdeau didn't), it's still +/- $9m x 7 (instead of 8) years or $63m. He's going to want that total money regardless of term/cap hit.

 

That's about $10-$15m more than we should, and reportedly are offering. AND we have higher taxes than any number of teams who'd happily sign him to those same numbers.

 

Hence the Rutherford quote about being "far apart". There's not an extension coming that magically works for the Canucks and Miller. Ergo...

[steviewonder20]

1 hour ago, BPA said:

Sedins retired age 37yr.  Their last near ppg was age 34yr.  The last 3 seasons were around 50pts.

 

So take that into consideration.

 

 

And if we cloned JT then we’d have a comparable to the Sedins.

[204CanucksFan]

56 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Well to be specific , lets call it Captaincy and the level of leadership that should specifically go with it / that.

The Sedins we’re great players but no where near the level of Captaincy I look for in a Captain.

To that I still appreciate everything Stan Smyl was , and still is to this organization.

 Stan, to me , is the pedestal level, or pinnacle of that earned level or privilege to command from.

 

No, I think  age is the outlier,.  How can “I” be.… or my opinion.

 

Youth, the Oilers have tried to build another youthful team for almost 20 years to carry them into the Dynasty books again.

But somehow they’ve managed to have probably as many Cup appearances as they have Lottery appearances.

 

So your saying a team like Tampa,  or others that have great run’s consecutively with many players 29 + yr old are outliers.

interesting.

We can look at Colorado ,  but that’s been a lot of work to get 1 cup win.…and who is to say there is more?

 

The flat cap,  and now talented RFA ‘s having a greater hand in contracts than UFA’s, has Managers afraid to lose talent at every or any contract.

 

im not baiting you,  but if that’s your way sticking to your opinion and exiting the stage that’s fine..  

 

Age is ScareCrow.

 

Can I ask an honest question? I've been away from the board for a few months, can you please explain to me why you feel JT is the defacto leader on the team? Or maybe I'm improperly summarizing your viewpoint.

 

I'm not trying to be insulting or trolling or anything like that. I just have a different opinion than you and I noticed another poster tag you to invite you to comment on a different thread (of the many threads relating to JT and his future with the team) and share your opinions.

 

I also enjoy a good debate and clash of ideas, without personal attacks or insults, and am open to changing my own opinion when presented with reasonable/rational view points. Anyway, again, I'd love to have a discussion about this topic but totally understand if you don't want to rehash points you've made elsewhere with someone who simply hasn't seen them. 

 

Looking forward to your response and viewpoint, but feel free to totally ignore my request if you're not up for it or just don't want to. Also I enjoy the vast majority of your posts.

[Baratheon]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Well to be specific , lets call it Captaincy and the level of leadership that should specifically go with it / that.

The Sedins we’re great players but no where near the level of Captaincy I look for in a Captain.

To that I still appreciate everything Stan Smyl was , and still is to this organization.

 Stan, to me , is the pedestal level, or pinnacle of that earned level or privilege to command from.

No argument on Steamer.  I took my hat off and placed it over my heart as I read this part.

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

No, I think  age is the outlier,.  How can “I” be.… or my opinion.

I think you already know what I meant here but I don't mind explaining.  Management and fans around the league generally would say that the age of a player (any player not just JT) is something to be concerned about as their career moves along.  Your opinion differs from this and is therefore an outlier.

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

So your saying a team like Tampa,  or others that have great run’s consecutively with many players 29 + yr old are outliers.

interesting.

If we were in the position of Tampa or even where they were 5ish years ago then I'd be right there with you beating the "whatever it takes" drum.  

 

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

im not baiting you,  but if that’s your way sticking to your opinion and exiting the stage that’s fine..  

In that case my bad.  You've threatened to do such things and openly bragged about stirring the pot in the past.  I assumed this was one of those cases.  If you want to have a discussion on Bo Horvat then we can but I didn't bring him up.  

 

My point was and is that you should be cautious about how old a player is when you're looking at locking them in to a long term deal at a high price point.  

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Lol. Except Huberdeau and Gaudreau are not comparables, not even close.

 

Hertl is 28 and Zibanejad will be 29 when his deal kicks in.

 

I think you’re missing the part where Miller will be 30 when his deal kicks in. One year makes a big difference when talking about an 8 year contract. That’s one extra year where he’ll likely be performing well under his contract value.

 

Anything else?

Hertl will be 29 in 3 months, does it make a difference if he's 8 months younger than Miller?  Yes Zibanejad is 29 when his new 8 year deal kicks in.  So that still doesn't explain why Miller is only getting a 6 year deal at age 30?  Care to explain that one?

[John McClane]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

Would we be able to dumperoo Miller for draft picks and clear all his cap?  Let’s do that!

Get off that park bench JR; it’s time to get ‘er done! 

Sort of like nuking the rainforest, so we can at least eliminate it as a topic of conversation. 

[Coconuts]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

I'm not ignoring the prospect pool at all, just think it will take 4 years to restock. 

Wasn't speaking about you specifically. And probably, all the more reason to begin the process sooner than later. The gap between our young core and the next wave will become increasingly problematic the longer it's not worked on.

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Why do you keep insisting we are only getting a late first for Miller at the TDL?  You know that's not true.  Why keep pushing this false narrative?

 

If Miller is traded at the deadline he will return a 1st round pick, an A prospect and a current NHL roster player.  That's the going rate for top end elite players who are traded as a rental at the deadline.  Is the A prospect also guaranteed to not make the NHL?  Is the NHL roster player gonna get shipped to Abbotsford?

If i may, let's be real, teams who will be interested in Miller are playoff bound, the most serious of the bunch likely contenders.   That's a later first best case, quite likely a late first.    Almost certainly not a player we'd see on the team for a couple of years...pretty sure he's going to be on the opening roster, which is going to make it awfully hard to trade Miller at the deadline assuming we are in a good spot.    If not, we take the best deal we can ... a lot of folks (but not all), overrated his return last deadline and nothing happened.   Then it was the draft - still nothing.    

 

What the "experts" said he was worth was similar to the deal Claude Giroux got PHI.... last deadline.   A roster player (for cap reasons), a grade A prospect - Tippet is one but also rather a meh one, and a first, of course a late one in this case.     Sure it's not impossible, but sure have a tough time figuring out who in even the 10-15 range would be willing to trade with us.    Why would they "load up" just for a shot at making the playoffs?    Miller has premier rental written all over him.   From a decent-contender level team.    And if one of those 10-15ish level teams go for it this off season with him ... well they'd have to get some pretty bad luck to not improve their lot.  

 

For sure it's the prospect that will be the main piece coming in... and he should be close ... which is good.    

Edited August 8, 2022 by IBatch

[Elias Pettersson]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

If i may, let's be real, teams who will be interested in Miller are playoff bound, the most serious of the bunch likely contenders.   That's a later first best case, quite likely a late first.    Almost certainly not a player we'd see on the team for a couple of years...pretty sure he's going to be on the opening roster, which is going to make it awfully hard to trade Miller at the deadline assuming we are in a good spot.    If not, we take the best deal we can ... a lot of folks (but not all), overrated his return last deadline and nothing happened.   Then it was the draft - still nothing.    

 

What the "experts" said he was worth was similar to the deal Claude Giroux got PHI.... last deadline.   A roster player (for cap reasons), a grade A prospect - Tippet is one but also rather a meh one, and a first, of course a late one in this case.     Sure it's not impossible, but sure have a tough time figuring out who in even the 10-15 range would be willing to trade with us.    Why would they "load up" just for a shot at making the playoffs?    Miller has premier rental written all over him.   From a decent-contender level team.    And if one of those 10-15ish level teams go for it this off season with him ... well they'd have to get some pretty bad luck to not improve their lot.  

 

For sure it's the prospect that will be the main piece coming in... and he should be close ... which is good.    

I agree.  It will be a late first for sure as the team trading for Miller will be a contender.  But for sure we will get an A prospect in return and either a roster player (young player who hasn't fully developed yet like a Chytil) or instead another pick.  Giroux got a 1st, a 3rd and an A prospect (former top 10 pick).

 

I would really hate for JR/PA to wait until the deadline to make a trade as there is no guarantee we will get a better deal than right now and if we are in a playoff spot that could get real messy.  I am really hoping the Miller situation is resolved one way or another prior to the season starting as it's best for both parties involved...

[coryberg]

4 hours ago, BPA said:

Sedins retired age 37yr.  Their last near ppg was age 34yr.  The last 3 seasons were around 50pts.

 

So take that into consideration.

 

 

Further to that the last time bertuzzi was even close to a point per game was 31 years old, Naslund was 33 years old. Both players middle in the 50 point range after as well. You basically have to be a generational talent to stay in the point per game range after 34. You also have to be a great skater... Miller is neither.