Report: Canucks fire assistant GM Chris Gear and analytics director Jonathan Wall

[King Heffy]

15 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, if One of the reasons Gillis underdrafted was due to bad reports from analytics?

The bigger reason was that he was not qualified to evaluate players and couldn't properly assess the input from the scouting department.  Doesn't matter what the dweebs say with their spreadsheet claim when the hockey people can't do the job.  I am hopeful that we don't make the same mistake as we did when we hired Gillis and hire a GM who has a strong understanding of the sport.

[Toyotasfan]

The Sedin’s are next 

[tas]

5 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Karamanos book it.

you mean the one he fired acrimoniously in pittsburgh?

[DefCon1]

3 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Maybe the “Chris” they were talking about was Higgins?  

hehe maybe but Rutherford is the big boss now and everyone will listen to him including Aquaman. He is the one with multiple cups so we should trust his judgement, thats why he was hired. 

[AK_19]

The article is kind of oddly slanted. I'm not sure why there is much praise for Chris Gears or Wall, nothing has ever been put forth on their actual achievements. There is no reason to believe they were doing better jobs of their roles than for other teams. I have feeling that one or both of these people may have been leakers to the press considering their favourable coverage without any reason. Also, it's odd that you have someone like Ian Mcintyre who was beating the drums on needing a change in management to now be upset in....changes to management.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Jack Fig said:

Blunt = All business. 

Especially at the Selinsgrove when Mary Anne wears her garters, Fig. 

Edited December 11, 2021 by PhillipBlunt

[hammertime]

23 minutes ago, tas said:

you mean the one he fired acrimoniously in pittsburgh?

Yes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by hammertime

[MaxVerstappen33]

33 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Karamanos book it. "Karmanos had a relationship with general manager Jim Rutherford dating to their days with the Carolina Hurricanes. 

His previous roles have included being the assistant GM for 13 of the 15 seasons he was with the front office with the Carolina Hurricanes, and as the vice president of player operations position for three of his seven past seasons with the Pittsburgh Penguins, spending the most recent four years as their assistant general manager.

His tenures in Pittsburgh and Carolina yielded several Stanley Cup Championships, one with the Hurricanes in 2006 and two more with the Penguins in 2016 and 2017. Five of his years spent with Carolina were with Sabres GM Kevyn Adams, which included building the Hurricanes championship club. The two go back a long time as teammates during their playing days on Team USA’s entry squad for the 1994 World Junior Championship. Karmanos also played college hockey for four seasons while attending Harvard.

No stranger to the game or front office operations, the 46-year-old Orchard Lake, MI native is the son of Peter Karmanos, the long-time majority-owner of the Hartford Whalers/Carolina Hurricanes franchise."

 

He's a banker and analytics guy seems likely he's our guy. 

After working together for 15 years in Carolina, Rutherford brought Karmanos with him to Pittsburgh after Rutherford left the Hurricanes in 2014. Karmanos is the son of former principal Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos,

[JamesB]

3 hours ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I liked Wall and Gear, but mostly because I liked that we had someone in their positions, to create some level of balance in hockey ops, under Benning.

JB’s strengths certainly weren’t in analytics/data, negotiating contracts (not saying he was awful, just wasn’t great), and understanding the CBA (most definitely a weak area for Jim).

 

But were Gear and Wall at the top of their games, respectively, compared to other prominent people around the league?

 

I’m not too sure. Certainly nothing really stands out where either of them ended up looking like masters of their crafts.

 

So, hopefully, these dismissals mean that better people are on the way to fill those vacant positions.

 

Certainly this team would benefit, if those areas become true strengths of the organization, once the replacements are hired.

 

3 hours ago, BPA said:

Rutherford probably has his own Analytics team and cap guy to bring in.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, aliboy said:

Exactly!! He'll already know who he's putting in place!

These comments are probably right. But I have misgivings.

 

First, blaming poor performance on Gear or Wall makes no sense. I liked Wall. The problem is not that he was bad at analytics. The problem was that Benning did not care about or understand analytics. It is not his fault he was ignored. And, by all accounts, Gear was doing a good job.

 

This "scorched earth" approach is not a good signal in my view. It reminds me of when Keenan came in and when Benning himself came in. 

 

Loyalty and continuity have some value. 

 

But, no doubt Rutherford has his own guys to bring in and I assume they are good -- possibly better than Wall and Gear. I hope it is case of upgrading and not just a matter of wanting to have his buddies around him. 

[Jack Fig]

24 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Especially at the Selinsgrove when Mary Anne wears her garters, Fig. 

I remember it. I try to forget, but I can't. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

This is quite an article

 

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2020/10/26/jason-karmanos-penguins-fired-jim-rutherford/stories/202010260090

 

When Bill Guerin left last offseason to lead the Minnesota Wild organization, Karmanos took on more duties as Rutherford’s right-hand man. A little over a year later, Karmanos has surprisingly been “relieved of his duties.”

 

In an interview with the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Rutherford called the change “difficult.” He declined to say whether the decision was purely hockey related.

Asked about the timing of the dismissal, Rutherford replied, “I’m in the middle of reorganizing the hockey operations. I felt this was the right time.”

 

Now Karmanos is gone, too, leaving the Penguins with no assistants to their general manager with the 2020-21 season possibly two months away.

“I’m working on something now. I’ve been working on it for a while,” Rutherford said. “I have some ideas. I’ll continue to work on it. I’d like to put it in place sooner than later. Sometimes things take a little bit of time. It will be in place in time for us to have to start making decisions we make prior to camp and things like that.”

 

The first addition to the new-look front office was their former defenseman.

 

In a new role announced two hours after Karmanos’ firing, Trevor Daley will be based in Pittsburgh and report directly to Rutherford, assisting in player evaluations at the NHL and AHL levels, as well as acting as an “eye in the sky” for the coaching staff.

 

 

[tas]

2 minutes ago, hammertime said:

Yes.

 

https://twitter.com/JShannonhl/status/1469026729457029122?s=20

 

taj is a source?

[DefCon1]

2 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Yes. We have the Smyl group of people who have no say in anything and have Aqualini going right over their heads. Maybe Smyl will resign. Then we have a true dumpster fire 

JR is president so he can fire everyone at this point. I thought you people wanted to clean house. This is what we call cleaning the house.

[DefCon1]

2 hours ago, davidgoliath said:

No way is that Aqua. That fell under Rutherford’s jurisdiction as soon as he was hired and from what we have heard he is very protective of his jurisdiction. But what is puzzling is how Rutherford made the determinations that these two should be fired without setting foot here, Were there some serious black marks against them that made it obvious they should be fired? It just seems harsh and without due diligence at this point.

Rutherford has his own people and doesnt want anyone that is assoviated with past failures.

[wildcam]

4 hours ago, Dazzle said:

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/report-canucks-fire-assistant-gm-chris-gear-and-analytics-director-jonathan-wall-4852677

 

The two employees had been with the Canucks for 11+ and 20+ years, respectively.

Daniel Wagner
Dec 10, 2021 11:56 AM

•  

•  

Chris Gear in happier times as legal counsel for the Canucks.Jeff Vinnick / Canucks

The Vancouver Canucks are not done making changes to their front office.

Less than a week after letting GM Jim Benning and assistant GM John Weisbrod go — and just one day after hiring new president of hockey operations Jim Rutherford — the Canucks have made further changes. 

As first reported by The Athletic’s Thomas Drance, the Canucks have “dismissed” assistant GM Chris Gear and executive director of hockey operations Jonathan Wall.

 

Gear had only just recently been promoted to assistant GM in 2020 after nine years of working as legal counsel for Canucks Sports and Entertainment. He was well-regarded for both his work on the legal side of things but also in hockey operations, as he structured contracts and managed the salary cap. 

Wall had been with the team for over 20 years, starting with tasks like watching video — literal video on VHS tapes — and manually tracking scoring chances. Over the course of two decades, his role grew until he was managing the Canucks’ analytics team as the director of hockey operations.

Beyond just analytics, Wall was heavily involved in many other areas of hockey operations, including working with Gear to keep the Canucks under the salary cap given the contracts signed by Benning. 

Both Gear and Wall had done yeoman’s work in recent years with a skeleton crew in hockey operations, filling in gaps beyond their stated responsibilities.

The two dismissals are surprising, particularly the timing. Gear and Wall had both worked under multiple management groups and could have been expected to continue under Rutherford. The team's analytics team, for instance, likely needs to be expanded to match other top teams in the NHL rather than contracted.

More intriguingly, Rutherford isn’t even in Vancouver yet. He isn’t expected to arrive until Sunday, so it’s surprising to see two significant changes made before he arrives and speaks to the existing management team and staff.

Of course, a new president of hockey operations could be expected to bring in his own people for two significant roles — capologist and director of analytics. Still, the Canucks just lost two of their most respected employees in hockey operations.

 

 

Why? I don't get why these two are fired. Rutherford is pretty ruthless lol. But I guess these people weren't that good to begin with in the eyes of a VERY well established man.

Was listening to Sportsnet 650 this afternoon and they mention Rutherford had a couple of guys in Pittsburgh that are very smart and do a wide range of jobs and well respected in hockey world....I would think he will be bringing in his guys to support him...

[King Heffy]

16 minutes ago, JamesB said:

 

 

These comments are probably right. But I have misgivings.

 

First, blaming poor performance on Gear or Wall makes no sense. I liked Wall. The problem is not that he was bad at analytics. The problem was that Benning did not care about or understand analytics. It is not his fault he was ignored. And, by all accounts, Gear was doing a good job.

 

Benning trusting the actual hockey people instead of the analytics dweebs wasn't a bad thing.  Scouting departments exist for a reason.

[Timråfan]

54 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

To quote Our Fearless Leader (of the New "Made" Canucks) Gary Bettman:

'Twas always thus.

(Yet I fear Shakespeare said it first.)

I really think I sould be born an englishmen when I read your replies…

[Timråfan]

50 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

The bigger reason was that he was not qualified to evaluate players and couldn't properly assess the input from the scouting department.  Doesn't matter what the dweebs say with their spreadsheet claim when the hockey people can't do the job.  I am hopeful that we don't make the same mistake as we did when we hired Gillis and hire a GM who has a strong understanding of the sport.

Evaluate players? Isn’t Gillis the guy that got all the complimentary players ?

Drafting is an entirarely different aspect. 

[Goal:thecup]

1 minute ago, Timråfan said:

I really think I sould be born an englishmen when I read your replies…

Never forsake your Valkerie Maidens Sverige; the English are just, at best, Anglo-Saxons anyway.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, MaxVerstappen33 said:

Do you like these firings ?

Well they are people that can easily be replaced IMO, so I am neutral.  The biggest hire is going to be the GM.  And the second is the coach, which has already happened.  Everyone else can go if they need to.  Francesco was tired of running the team I think, so he gave the keys to JR.  JR is going to clean house.  I'm hoping he does the right thing.  He has the experience.  Let's see what happens.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Elias Pettersson