[Rumour] Canucks trying to find a market for Oliver Ekman-Larsson

[iinatcc]

4 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

Oel is a keeper as far as I'm concerned. I bet he improves this coming year. 

People underestimate how hard it would be to replace him. 

A player whose been in steady decline is suddenly going to improve at 31 next season? I don't know if it really works like that 

[iinatcc]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

That is really the key.  When Hughes was out of the lineup, OEL slid into that spot and was really effective putting up points.

 

Having him on a matchup shutdown pairing isn’t using his talents.

 

46 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

I understand getting away from his contact but I also don’t mind the idea of building around Hughes/OEL on the left side and finding some defensive d men types to play opposite them.  
 

OEL is a little wasted without the PP time though. 

To these two points ... this makes trading for OEL even worse. If OEL was just going to be redundant considering the team already has Hughes why trade for him knowing OEL's contract + age and where he's at in his career. 

 

This is an example of Benning not being to manage and build the team properly. 

[BlakeQuinnAndEggs]

#ThankyouJim

Edited May 10, 2022 by BlakeQuinnAndEggs

[erkayloomeh]

9 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

A player whose been in steady decline is suddenly going to improve at 31 next season? I don't know if it really works like that 

I think you need to consider that he was playing in Arizona. 

[iinatcc]

4 hours ago, nergish said:

This is just absolutely asinine.

 

He's 31 years old, and just had a very solid season for us. Overpaid? Definitely.

But how can you sit from behind your keyboard and say the guy is "finished" at this stage in his career? I mean, even just physically the guy still looks very young. 

 

The absolute lack of respect. This is a former captain and all star player who chose to leave the only team he's ever played for to be in Vancouver. 

Try separating the salary cap from the player, for just a second. It's not his fault he got a big contract... having captained and even lead Arizona in scoring. 

 

Jet Black Jim definitely did not need to make the deal for OEL, but he knew he was getting a good player... and he got one.

 

 

 

By that argument then ... 

 

 

On the issue of his salary cap unfortunately in a hard cap world everyone is going to be evaluated based on their contract. It's the same reason why most of us here keep bringing up the Leafs and their contracts. 

[Provost]

12 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

To these two points ... this makes trading for OEL even worse. If OEL was just going to be redundant considering the team already has Hughes why trade for him knowing OEL's contract + age and where he's at in his career. 

 

This is an example of Benning not being to manage and build the team properly. 

It was definitely an odd move.  I think it can be remedied a lot by having the right D partner for OEL.  You put him beside a guy like Tanev and I suspect you would see a lot more 5v5 production.

 

Or If you had a real shutdown pair to take those toughest minutes.  Neither OEL or Myers are defence first guys, but that is how they got deployed because there wasn’t anyone else and they could do it better than the other options

LA is in the playoffs using a 2nd pairing of Edler and Stecher taking really hard minutes.  They are excellent at shot suppression so if we had a 3rd pairing like that, OEL and Myers would be more effective with more o-zone opportunities.

[iinatcc]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

It was definitely an odd move.  I think it can be remedied a lot by having the right D partner for OEL.  You put him beside a guy like Tanev and I suspect you would see a lot more 5v5 production.

 

Or If you had a real shutdown pair to take those toughest minutes.  Neither OEL or Myers are defence first guys, but that is how they got deployed because there wasn’t anyone else and they could do it better than the other options

LA is in the playoffs using a 2nd pairing of Edler and Stecher taking really hard minutes.  They are excellent at shot suppression so if we had a 3rd pairing like that, OEL and Myers would be more effective with more o-zone opportunities.

But here's the thing Edler + Stecher take up a combined 5.2 million in cap space which means more cap flexibility in other areas in the line up 

 

OEL already eats up a little over 7 million. With Myers that 2nd paring takes up 13 mil. Even w/o Myers and let's say Canucks slot in a 3rd paring dman that probably cost 1 to 2 million. That's 8 to 9 million in cap space. And we better hope that 3rd paring dman can thrive with 2nd paring responsibilities

 

[iinatcc]

Also this sums up the OEL trade

 

 

[gizmo2337]

Myers is too slow, and that's why we make a change. You can't have guys skating around your defenders if you want to go far in the playoffs. 

[shiznak]

10 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No he's not, Hughes is our #1 Dman and runs the #1 unit PP.

In terms of ice-time, yes Hughes is our #1 defensemen, but he doesn’t play against the opponent’s elite forwards every single night. In matter of fact, he usually plays against the opponent’s bottom 6 forwards. 
 

OEL and Myers plays against the toughest match up.

 

 

[eeeeergh]

7 hours ago, erkayloomeh said:

Oel is a keeper as far as I'm concerned. I bet he improves this coming year. 

People underestimate how hard it would be to replace him. 

He was so good when he was allowed to play his offensive style.
Im going to keep beating the drum that he needs right side partner that will play defensively, and we'll get full moneys worth for OEL. 

I would be very sad if we traded him. 

[billabong]

I’d be shocked if OEL is traded on account of his contract and his NMC 

 

myers has value across the league so I could see him being moved. He gets way more flack than he deserves in this market 

[Odd.]

Myers to the Sens for Watson, Lassi Thomson, and their 2nd round pick please

[Odd.]

2 hours ago, gizmo2337 said:

Myers is too slow, and that's why we make a change. You can't have guys skating around your defenders if you want to go far in the playoffs. 

Myers is not slow if we’re talking about foot speed and skating in general, that’s his biggest asset.

 

mentally on the other hand, he cracks under pressure and is not very smart in his own zone. 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

27 minutes ago, shiznak said:

In terms of ice-time, yes Hughes is our #1 defensemen, but he doesn’t play against the opponent’s elite forwards every single night. In matter of fact, he usually plays against the opponent’s bottom 6 forwards. 
 

OEL and Myers plays against the toughest match up.

 

 

Side by side, there’s not all that much difference in quality of competition between Hughes and OEL last season. Yes, OEL played slightly more often against top line forwards, but it’s not as significant a difference as you’re suggesting, and certainly Hughes wasn’t sheltered or facing mostly bottom-6ers.

 

 

 

For example, the most frequent (by TOI) centre matchup for Hughes in 2021-22 was Connor McDavid. For OEL it was Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. That’s not necessarily representative, of course. Both Hughes and OEL played high minutes against a who’s who of the leagues top players, and their most frequent matchups show this. Just using the example to make the point. For some teams, Quinn got the most frequent matchup against the top line at 5v5. For other teams, it was OEL.

 

And certainly, when it comes to defensive zone starts, OEL was relied on more heavily than Hughes. But not dramatically so, when you consider that much of Hughes’s high offensive starts percentages were about getting him on the ice for offensive zone faceoffs, more so than keeping him away from the defensive zone (which was the case in the past, but really isn’t any more).
 

Quality of teammates is another story, and Hughes definitely shared the ice with higher quality players more often than OEL. But that’s also to be expected, given that Hughes is an absolute offensive phenom who scored more points this year than OEL has ever managed in his career. Makes sense they’d want to get Quinn out there with the best Canucks offensive. players as often as possible.

 

None of this is meant to take anything away from OEL. He played some tough minutes for us and performed admirably in a difficult role.

 

Just pointing out that Hughes probably deserves more credit than you’re giving him for the quality of competition and “tough minutes” he logs, especially last season.

 

Here’s a look at how his usage has progressed over his career:

 

 

Quinn is developing into a legit #1D. His defensive starts and percentages (offensive vs defensive) have really shifted as he becomes much more of a three zones player and matchup option for this team.

 

(Similar story with his emergence this year as a PKer under Bruce.)
 

Hughes’s greatest value will always be on offence, but he’s really proven this past season that he can be trusted (and can thrive) in all situations, against all levels of competition, and in all game states.

[shiznak]

28 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Side by side, there’s not all that much difference in quality of competition between Hughes and OEL last season. Yes, OEL played slightly more often against top line forwards, but it’s not as significant a difference as you’re suggesting, and certainly Hughes wasn’t sheltered or facing mostly bottom-6ers.

 

 

 

For example, the most frequent (by TOI) centre matchup for Hughes in 2021-22 was Connor McDavid. For OEL it was Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. That’s not necessarily representative, of course. Both Hughes and OEL played high minutes against a who’s who of the leagues top players, and their most frequent matchups show this. Just using the example to make the point. For some teams, Quinn got the most frequent matchup against the top line at 5v5. For other teams, it was OEL.

 

And certainly, when it comes to defensive zone starts, OEL was relied on more heavily than Hughes. But not dramatically so, when you consider that much of Hughes’s high offensive starts percentages were about getting him on the ice for offensive zone faceoffs, more so than keeping him away from the defensive zone (which was the case in the past, but really isn’t any more).
 

Quality of teammates is another story, and Hughes definitely shared the ice with higher quality players more often than OEL. But that’s also to be expected, given that Hughes is an absolute offensive phenom who scored more points this year than OEL has ever managed in his career. Makes sense they’d want to get Quinn out there with the best Canucks offensive. players as often as possible.

 

None of this is meant to take anything away from OEL. He played some tough minutes for us and performed admirably in a difficult role.

 

Just pointing out that Hughes probably deserves more credit than you’re giving him for the quality of competition and “tough minutes” he logs, especially last season.

 

Here’s a look at how his usage has progressed over his career:

 

 

Quinn is developing into a legit #1D. His defensive starts and percentages (offensive vs defensive) have really shifted as he becomes much more of a three zones player and matchup option for this team.

 

(Similar story with his emergence this year as a PKer under Bruce.)
 

Hughes’s greatest value will always be on offence, but he’s really proven this past season that he can be trusted (and can thrive) in all situations, against all levels of competition, and in all game states.

Hence why I said, “he doesn’t play against the toughest matchup every single night”, like OEL and Myers do.
 

Total ice-time against elite competition:

Myers - 523 mins
OEL - 495 mins

Hughes - 465 mins

 

Total ice-time against mid competition:

Myers - 501 mins

Hughes - 488 mins

OEL - 470 mins
 

Total ice-time against gritensity competition:

Hughes - 491 mins

Myers - 480 mins 

OEL - 428 mins

[Coconuts]

16 hours ago, Provost said:

I know he isn’t ideal, but unless we have a replacement we don’t have better options.  I don’t know that OEL is one of our biggest problems.  He is still a #2-3 guy on most rosters.

 

I guess if you can find a taker and it doesn’t really cost you anything then fine.  I wouldn’t be sending any real sweeteners out to get rid of him at this point.

 

Myers would be a higher priority to move for me.  He has just had his best year since probably his rookie year.  He is terrible at zone exits which is something JR highlighted as an issue for the team.  Someone would take Myers for no sweetener added probably as there aren’t a lot of years left on the deal.

I'd def be looking to move Myers as I think he could be moved without giving anything up. Top 4 RD will always be in demand, even if some were to argue he's a 4. 

 

His term also makes him more palatable as he's a short term commitment.

 

16 hours ago, Devron said:

Yeah sorry but doesn’t make sense to try and move OEL. Who are you going to replace him with and still be competitive. Moving Myers makes sense. OEL does not 

I agree, but the caveat to this is who would management be looking to replace him with? Could potentially see them both go. That'd be significant, and admittedly, probably unlikely.

 

15 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Myers only has a 10 team no trade list and would be the much easier player to move.

 

You’d give too much leverage to a team in an OEL trade if they knew they were one of only two teams he’d be willing to waive for.

 

Besides I like OEL’s defensive game better and I think he has more to give offensively.

 

 

I'd like to see him and Hughes on the powerplay together, and I'd like to see him get more offensive minutes. We need more than one pairing that can produce regardless of Quinn's offensive powers.

 

14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Josh Manson could replace Myers on the right side.  He brings a different element and  could partner with Hughes.  As for OEL, if we were to actually move him it would be to fit a puck moving RHD into the lineup.  John Marino could be an option for that.  And of course we have Rathbone who will be given every opportunity to make the club next year who can be the secondary puck mover on the left side.

 

Hughes       Manson

Hague         Marino

Rathbone    Schenn

 

This is a much more balanced defensive unit then what we have right now and we add alot of size as well with Manson and Hague.

 

Not sure if it's possible to move OEL and to get Hague, but this lineup is probably similar as to how JR wants to set up his Dmen.

Manson will be very in demand though, which will drive up his price. What do you reckon it'd take to reel him in? He won't come cheap.

 

10 hours ago, Provost said:

That is really the key.  When Hughes was out of the lineup, OEL slid into that spot and was really effective putting up points.

 

Having him on a matchup shutdown pairing isn’t using his talents.

If he stays we def need to see him in a more offensive role, he can play shutdown but he's miscast imo.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I don't think OEL is going anywhere, we'd have to give up either a good prospect or good pick to move him and realistically he does give us about 4-5M in value so he's not super far off (for example, Loui at 6M when he was playing like a 800K player).

 

Myers would be very trade-able, lots of teams would take him at 6M because he's still a decent all-around defenceman who has slowed down offensively lately, but still very good at playing solid defence. If we retained 1M he'd be an absolute bargain and a solid piece for any team.

 

That being said, I really don't think we should trade Myers - we don't have enough RHD let alone shutdown guys as it is, and he's been great for us last season. With OEL costing too much, I say we sit put with the two big guys. Maybe management explore a buy-out when OEL is really old or just hope he retires early. Myers at 6M is far from the problem in this team though - he's one of the few guys who can play solid defence at times. People hone in on his stupid mistakes which he has really limited in the last 12 months (compared to when he started here under Green), his defensive stick-work has improved and he's got a solid +/- to show for it.

[stawns]

19 hours ago, King Loui said:

lol one year and the new brass is already trying to move him.  Thanks Jim 

I thought he was their best all around dman and he comes in at a good price.  Replacing him will cost just as much.

[Down by the River]

7 hours ago, shiznak said:

In terms of ice-time, yes Hughes is our #1 defensemen, but he doesn’t play against the opponent’s elite forwards every single night. In matter of fact, he usually plays against the opponent’s bottom 6 forwards. 
 

OEL and Myers plays against the toughest match up.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, shiznak said:

Hence why I said, “he doesn’t play against the toughest matchup every single night”, like OEL and Myers do.

 

You're misquoting yourself. 

 

I don't know how you can argue he doesn't play against elite forwards when he logged 90 minutes 4 on 5. OEL logged about 160 minutes but was on the PK the entire year whereas Quinn's minutes basically came exclusively after Green was fired. In the post-Green era, he was certainly playing against top forwards.