stawns Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 Just now, rekker said: He has no extension in place at the time of the trade. We are not privy to any possible talks so one is to assume at the time of the trade, a pure rental. Both sides are already talking extension. If he's not extended by the tdk, Lou will flip him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: @Alflives Where you at? Alf right now... NostrAlfmus had been predicting that Miller was for sure getting traded and Bo was for sure being extended since last Spring. His naked, furry, old ass is probably waiting for a full moon to charge his crystals and take another run at prognosticating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Highstickin said: Offers get worse closer to the deadline when contending teams trade for players not from the Canucks because our asking price is too high. There are lots of players available this year and holding out to get a larger return could land you without a dance partner come deadline day. Just look at what happened last year with Miller. We waited and held out for a better return, which never happened, and then we were forced to either sign him to a contract that he will struggle to live up to or lose him on the open market. The exact same scenario could have easily happened with Bo. I don't think they even truly tried to trade miller last year 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, The Lock said: I think Vancouver just won't have the money for that. It wouldn't even matter if Horvat wanted to or not. We are set to clear a ton of cap space. Can we move Beaulivier? Boeser/Garland? As it stands, NYI is the only team that can re-sign him to an 8x8 deal. Theoretically, they can try to offload him in the summer before free agency to a team willing to lock him in eight years. Otherwise, he becomes a UFA and is limited to seven years, so likely a 7x9 deal wherever he goes. So ignore the bridges burnt between agent and Vancouver management. A... sixth round pick for negotiating rights in June...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, stawns said: I think Raty is great, I'm not happy about the top 12 protected but happy they got a first. I'm appalled about the cap dump for an under sized winger and baffled by the salary retention heading into the tdl. They could have done better Quite likely any trade would invlove a cap dump this day and age. A 25 year old with only another year left on his contract and history of 20 goal seasons isn't that bad of a cap dump. Edited January 31, 2023 by rekker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Both sides are already talking extension. If he's not extended by the tdk, Lou will flip him A lot of assumptions there. I'm just going off face value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Depends on any subsequent moves. Just now, Bob.Loblaw said: We are set to clear a ton of cap space. Can we move Beaulivier? Boeser/Garland? As it stands, NYI is the only team that can re-sign him to an 8x8 deal. Theoretically, they can try to offload him in the summer before free agency to a team willing to lock him in eight years. Otherwise, he becomes a UFA and is limited to seven years, so likely a 7x9 deal wherever he goes. So ignore the bridges burnt between agent and Vancouver management. A... sixth round pick for negotiating rights in June...? Even if the goals are to remove cap space, I just don't see it. Why remove cap space only to not have cap space again? Clearly this year hasn't worked with our situation. You'd think management would want to try something else at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highstickin Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, stawns said: As the tdl gets closer, teams are going to want to clear cap space to load up for a cup run. Teams with cap space can take on bad contracts that come with young prospects or high picks. The same opportunity exists at the draft. Isn't that what everyone has been clamouring for on here? The Canucks could have been that team, but blew that chance by taking on AB's $4m and retaining on Horvat this year. All we see on this board, non stop, is people screaming about cap mismanagement and now this group has made a huge fumble on the cap and suddenly everyone is all good with it? If they have to take cap back, don't do it on an undersized winger who doesnt score. If we didn't take AB back in this trade we don't get Raty and a 1st. Maybe you get one but not both for a rental Bo. AB is our cap dump to get a 1st. The other thing to think about it that this 1st will likely be 13-20 overall this year or next. If we don't take NYI cap dump for 13-20 and instead take Boston's or Toronto's where does that 1st end up? 25-32? What is the cost for us to move from 25-32 to 13-20? At recent drafts the cost to move up has been crazy. My take on draft picks in the 1st round; Quality>Quantity. I will take the NYI's cap dump and 1st over pretty much any other contender. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarcore Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, The Lock said: Even if the goals are to remove cap space, I just don't see it. Why remove cap space only to not have cap space again? Clearly this year hasn't worked with our situation. You'd think management would want to try something else at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, The Lock said: I think Vancouver just won't have the money for that. It wouldn't even matter if Horvat wanted to or not. Unless a miracle happens and we trade Miller at the deadline lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, JayDangles said: Exactly. ...my point being, the return they received is no worse than what they would have got from a team that spoke to his agent and knew he was too expensive. but they didn't explore that avenue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyu Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, stawns said: As the tdl gets closer, teams are going to want to clear cap space to load up for a cup run. Teams with cap space can take on bad contracts that come with young prospects or high picks. The same opportunity exists at the draft. Isn't that what everyone has been clamouring for on here? The Canucks could have been that team, but blew that chance by taking on AB's $4m and retaining on Horvat this year. All we see on this board, non stop, is people screaming about cap mismanagement and now this group has made a huge fumble on the cap and suddenly everyone is all good with it? If they have to take cap back, don't do it on an undersized winger who doesnt score. Hoping for a desperate team to make an offer at near the TDL could totally fail. The GMs of contending teams get to live another day even if they don't pull the trigger on a move to acquire Horvat but if no one makes a good offer or if the offer gets worse and worse, either we are stuck with Bo and he's walking to UFA or we trade him for a late 1st round pick at best. Why should we put ourselves in the situation of do-or-die? In fact, trading him early has allowed this deal to take place. NYI will have plenty of time to assess him and try to re-sign him to a deal and if that doesn't work out, they can ship him out to another team as a pure rental and recoup some of the lost assets back. I don't like the management, they started off on a wrong foot. But I like that they acted sooner rather than later. Horvat was going to be traded and if no other team has put in a best offer by now, they may never. I like your posts and respect your opinions but you know that 99% of the ideas thrown by the posters about cap management is bull$hit based on their imagination without knowing what's going behind the scenes. So citing them as a source and claiming that the management made a big fumble is not all that convincing. At the end of the day, they traded a player who was going to the UFA for a good young player and a relatively high 1st rounder in a deep draft. If they had to take some cap dump back, then that's the price of doing business early and setting yourself up for other moves. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, rekker said: Quite likely any trade would invlove a cap dump this day and age. A 25 year old with only another year left on his contract and history of 20 goal seasons isn't that bab of a cap dump. Why? Bo was on an expiring contract, with only a portion of the season left to cover, plus they retained almost a million and a half. I fail to see why it was necessary to take that on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 8 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said: ....which could be in 3 months Optimism is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, stawns said: Why? Bo was on an expiring contract, with only a portion of the season left to cover, plus they retained almost a million and a half. I fail to see why it was necessary to take that on. Who knows. Maybe it was the best offer on the table right now. Waiting until the TDL also means more games won with Horvat in the lineup, better odds of getting a better pick this year. As far a rentals go he got the standard. Kane and Toews 50% retained also could be on the market. Edited January 31, 2023 by IBatch 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 10 minutes ago, rekker said: Quite likely any trade would invlove a cap dump this day and age. A 25 year old with only another year left on his contract and history of 20 goal seasons isn't that bad of a cap dump. He scored 20 once, in 2017-18. It's been a steady decline since, down to 12 last year. His career mirrors Boeser, just not as good 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyone Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, rekker said: He has no extension in place at the time of the trade. We are not privy to any possible talks so one is to assume at the time of the trade, a pure rental. I read somewhere that Bo wants to go to free agency, so unless the Islanders blow his mind with an offer I think he'll be a top 5 free agent come July 1st 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 minute ago, stawns said: Why? Bo was on an expiring contract, with only a portion of the season left to cover, plus they retained almost a million and a half. I fail to see why it was necessary to take that on. I don't know. Perhaps the only way the Isles make this deal is to shed some cap for further moves. What I do know that with the tight cap most moves will have major cap implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, stawns said: He scored 20 once, in 2017-18. It's been a steady decline since, down to 12 last year. His career mirrors Boeser, just not as good Fair enough, two 18 goal seasons and last year a 12 goal season on a team with only two 20 goal scorers on the roster. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 1 hour ago, stawns said: Raty is a great player........no one ne should be anything but excited that he's in Van expectation is already way too high and going to be tough for the kid to live up to.. he's a "great" player what's your definition of great? raty is a very good prospect and have a good chance to succeed in the nhl.. but really his ceiling is a 3c maybe borderline 2c. again it's nothing against raty.. i just think this trade is very underwhelming.. if the pick is maybe something like top 3 protected ie winning the lottery then i'd be more OK with especially for taking a cap dump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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