Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[kloubek]

11 hours ago, Zhukini said:

Comparing Jake to Bertuzzi is like comparing Pouliot to Letang

Heh.  Not quite, but you are right.

 

Bert had better hands and shot, and it isn't even close. But Jake is faster, and has the physical tools to be just as imposing if he chooses to play that way. I think from an overall physical tools perspective they arent really that far off from each other, but I don't think Jake can or will ever think the game at the same level. Thats why even if he figures out his game that Jake will never be a 1st line player imo.

 

With that said, I said it before and I will say it again - guys like Jake are still important... especially post-season. Unless we are given an offer we can't refuse, I hope he sticks around and becomes the elite 3rd liner I think he can (and probably will) be. We just have to accept he was not the best pick in that draft and leave that behind us.  What is done is done.

[Boudrias]

On 4/29/2019 at 9:01 PM, kloubek said:

Heh.  Not quite, but you are right.

 

Bert had better hands and shot, and it isn't even close. But Jake is faster, and has the physical tools to be just as imposing if he chooses to play that way. I think from an overall physical tools perspective they arent really that far off from each other, but I don't think Jake can or will ever think the game at the same level. Thats why even if he figures out his game that Jake will never be a 1st line player imo.

 

With that said, I said it before and I will say it again - guys like Jake are still important... especially post-season. Unless we are given an offer we can't refuse, I hope he sticks around and becomes the elite 3rd liner I think he can (and probably will) be. We just have to accept he was not the best pick in that draft and leave that behind us.  What is done is done.

Bottom line measure IMHO is where each player can take his team. Bert and Naslund never got past the 2nd Round and that says something. Yes, his scoring was his strength but I suggest his leadership, like Naslund's was lacking. We don't know yet where Jake will end up. His skating is superior and his d-zone play superior as well to Bert. I would add his coachability as well. Jake has improved his game each year and I expect that to continue this coming season. Love to see him chart a path similiar to Boone Jenner.  

[Dannydog]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Bottom line measure IMHO is where each player can take his team. Bert and Naslund never got past the 2nd Round and that says something. Yes, his scoring was his strength but I suggest his leadership, like Naslund's was lacking. We don't know yet where Jake will end up. His skating is superior and his d-zone play superior as well to Bert. I would add his coachability as well. Jake has improved his game each year and I expect that to continue this coming season. Love to see him chart a path similiar to Boone Jenner.  

Agreed , virt has a lot of similar skill sets as Boone.Size, speed, hitting machine, virt just needs to play with a snarl and same intensity consistantly like Boone. Virts got a way better shot.

[Hairy Kneel]

Grabner,Cirelli,Jankowski,Aho,Atkinson,Bergeron,Gordano,McCaan,Coleman,Comphre,Draisatl,Eakin,Marchand,Richardson,Saad,

Soderburg,Stephan

 

These were the top SH goals for in 2018-19, (from 6 goals to 3 goals)

JAKE can be a top PK for us! Short handed goals are a spark for a team. Why not use him. He's been learning defense which has been burned in by Green's system.

Jake can hustle as fast as any of these guys.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Hairy Kneel

[Fred65]

I admire the continuous stream of fans telling us of Virtanen future, he's going to be this or that but why do we look at him like a  scout would. The question is what has he done? specifically. The club can't keep living on dreams at some point you either fish or cut bait. Right now he has little trade value and if he bombs again this coming season then what? 

[73 Percent]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

I admire the continuous stream of fans telling us of Virtanen future, he's going to be this or that but why do we look at him like a  scout would. The question is what has he done? specifically. The club can't keep living on dreams at some point you either fish or cut bait. Right now he has little trade value and if he bombs again this coming season then what? 

Why exaclty are we faced with the ultimatum of him becoming an all-star or us "cutting bait"? I get that his career thus far has been disappointing when you consider his draft position, but hes still a very useful player. You talk about it like hes commanding a 6 million dollar salary and if hes not scoring 40 goals he's useless. He's young, fast, cheap, hits hard sometimes, responsible with the puck and still has potential to become better. Look at every single cup roster and you'll find players who scored around 30 pts in the bottom 6. 

 

This team still has some issues, virtanen isn't one of them at the moment. 

Edited May 5, 2019 by 73 Percent

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 hours ago, Fred65 said:

I admire the continuous stream of fans telling us of Virtanen future, he's going to be this or that but why do we look at him like a  scout would. The question is what has he done? specifically. The club can't keep living on dreams at some point you either fish or cut bait. Right now he has little trade value and if he bombs again this coming season then what? 

How do you figure he bombed this year? He improved over last year in goals by 50% and in total points by 25%. At 1.25M AAV and 15 goals he is probably the 3rd highest in terms of dollars per goal (behind Brock and Petey on ELCs). I don't see the value in cutting ties with him; if anything an argument could be made he is more valuable to keep.

[Zhukini]

3 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

Why exaclty are we faced with the ultimatum of him becoming an all-star or us "cutting bait"? I get that his career thus far has been disappointing when you consider his draft position, but hes still a very useful player. You talk about it like hes commanding a 6 million dollar salary and if hes not scoring 40 goals he's useless. He's young, fast, cheap, hits hard sometimes, responsible with the puck and still has potential to become better. Look at every single cup roster and you'll find players who scored around 30 pts in the bottom 6. 

 

This team still has some issues, virtanen isn't one of them at the moment. 

The issue isn't that he's not a useful player, it's that seems will see that he was taken top 6 years before and be willing to give up a lot to acquire him. See Erik Gudbransson initially. 

 

Jim hasn't had the opportunity to come out miles ahead in many trades because he hasn't had the assets. This is an opportunity where he should be shopping Jake to try and maximize that asset. 

 

Bottom Sixers who can put up 30 points can easily be got in free agency without breaking the bank. If that's what we're holding out hope for Jake for and we pass on the opportunities to get more important pieces that doesn't seem like the way to go long term. 

 

But hey if GM's don't see that value in Jake then sure hang onto him

Edited May 6, 2019 by Zhukini

[I.Am.Ironman]

16 minutes ago, Zhukini said:

The issue isn't that he's not a useful player, it's that seems will see that he was taken top 6 years before and be willing to give up a lot to acquire him. See Erik Gudbransson initially. 

 

Jim hasn't had the opportunity to come out miles ahead in many trades because he hasn't had the assets. This is an opportunity where he should be shopping Jake to try and maximize that asset. 

 

Bottom Sixers who can put up 30 points can easily be got in free agency without breaking the bank. If that's what we're holding out hope for Jake for and we pass on the opportunities to get more important pieces that doesn't seem like the way to go long term. 

 

But hey if GM's don't see that value in Jake then sure hang onto him

Those players probably cost an extra 2M on top of what JV is making in free agency, with less potential to improve. JV is trending in the right direction, 15goals this year in 70 games isn't bad at all. That being said, I don't know if a team would give up a package for JV that would be worth while to the Canucks, as you admitted. I doubt teams are giving an Erik Gudbranson package for JV (McCann plus low 30s pick in second round). Given that, I think it is in the Canucks' best interest to just hold on to him and see what he turns into.

[The Lock]

On 5/5/2019 at 2:23 PM, Fred65 said:

I admire the continuous stream of fans telling us of Virtanen future, he's going to be this or that but why do we look at him like a  scout would. The question is what has he done? specifically. The club can't keep living on dreams at some point you either fish or cut bait. Right now he has little trade value and if he bombs again this coming season then what? 

Optimism or not, keeping him nor trading him's going to make or break this team. It's by no means a dire situation. I'd argue that having the same amount of desperation to trade him is no different than having that desperation to think positively about him. Right now, we have the space for him to try and become a better player. If he doesn't perform, he's still good enough for a bottom 6 role (with even the possibility of being a late bloomer). The only thing that would go against him at that point is his consistency, which still has improved over the past couple of years.

 

So I really don't see why this is an issue. Virtanen's not on the bottom of the food chain on this team and likely won't be due to his niche. People focus so much on 6th overall. It's like they can't break away from thinking about the past. So many complaints. So many expectations. But that's also what creates the problems: the people who can't adapt and rethink about new situations, like the situation we are in now with him. The people who are stuck on where he was drafted.

 

Truth is, I doubt anyone here even knows if Virtanen would have a reasonable trade value or not. It might just be more worth it to keep him if what we'd get is sub-optimal.

Edited May 7, 2019 by The Lock

[250Integra]

On 5/5/2019 at 12:19 PM, Hairy Kneel said:

Grabner,Cirelli,Jankowski,Aho,Atkinson,Bergeron,Gordano,McCaan,Coleman,Comphre,Draisatl,Eakin,Marchand,Richardson,Saad,

Soderburg,Stephan

 

These were the top SH goals for in 2018-19, (from 6 goals to 3 goals)

JAKE can be a top PK for us! Short handed goals are a spark for a team. Why not use him. He's been learning defense which has been burned in by Green's system.

Jake can hustle as fast as any of these guys.

We wouldn't want to ruin that pretty face...

[Hairy Kneel]

I remember watching one shorthanded goal last week. And I was thinking of how something like that could change a series. With Jake's speed I could sure see him doing something like that. I think Green is MOSTLY SMART. But sometimes misses on opportunities with some players like Jake. ie the doghouse mentality. He needs to think outside the box a bit. ie knowing how to open up the offense more at times. Don't be afraid to try something new if the PP isn't working. My personal favorite is Biega on the 4th line. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I remember watching one shorthanded goal last week. And I was thinking of how something like that could change a series. With Jake's speed I could sure see him doing something like that. I think Green is MOSTLY SMART. But sometimes misses on opportunities with some players like Jake. ie the doghouse mentality. He needs to think outside the box a bit. ie knowing how to open up the offense more at times. Don't be afraid to try something new if the PP isn't working. My personal favorite is Biega on the 4th line. 

Does Jake have the fitness (natural or from training) to play five on five minutes, and PK though?  Even in the best condition possible, not every player can play significant minutes.  Maybe Jake is just one of those guys, that no matter how hard he works out, will never have a great aerobic capacity?  

[Hairy Kneel]

24 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Does Jake have the fitness (natural or from training) to play five on five minutes, and PK though?  Even in the best condition possible, not every player can play significant minutes.  Maybe Jake is just one of those guys, that no matter how hard he works out, will never have a great aerobic capacity?  

It's never been tried. But at least give him the opportunity.

[captainhorvat]

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, Alflives said:

Does Jake have the fitness (natural or from training) to play five on five minutes, and PK though?  Even in the best condition possible, not every player can play significant minutes.  Maybe Jake is just one of those guys, that no matter how hard he works out, will never have a great aerobic capacity?  

Jake has great all out speed.

 

Stop and start. Bust your ass out to the point. Back to the corner. To the front of the net. Out in front of a shot.  That's explosive agility, balance, edges.  PK is different than all out speed. Even if Jake is ''fit?''  And I think he has been since his early hard lessons.

 

I'm not sure I have seen that. I suppose he does skate in hard enough on the fore check, filling lanes. 

 

But here is the thing? Anyone who wants it bad enough can probably play PK. And they'll get in that shape even on 3 or 4 minutes shorthanded per game. 

[Canuck Surfer]

15 hours ago, 250Integra said:

We wouldn't want to ruin that pretty face...

If Draisaitl can kill penalties, Jake can.

[ohmy]

6 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

@captainhorvat has ZERO hockey knowledge.  Enough with his false posts about Jake. Ill take a @FedorFedorov post over this hockey forum bust. 

There you go, fixed it for ya bud!

[Westcoasting]

35 minutes ago, ohmy said:

@captainhorvat has ZERO hockey knowledge.  Enough with his false posts about Jake. Ill take a @FedorFedorov post over this hockey forum bust. 

There you go, fixed it for ya bud!

What do you see in the future for Jake?

[captainhorvat]

2 hours ago, Westcoasting said:

What do you see in the future for Jake?

Don’t know what he thinks but I see a player we hold onto for too long and eventually have to put him on waivers