Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[48MPHSlapShot]

12 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

19 year old Sam Bennett

When did he turn 19?

[Rob_Zepp]

On 5/7/2019 at 11:43 PM, captainhorvat said:

The guy has ZERO hockey iq. Enough with this false hope for Jake. I’ll take a 3rd rounder for this 6th overall bust.

[Rob_Zepp]

7 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He probably signs a two year bridge because we can't afford any long term deals till after Petey/Hughes are signed in 2021. In 2022 Lou/Loui/Roussel/Beagle are all off so we can sign him to a long deal then.

 

 

The only challenge with that is given his current AAV, he is a VERY likely player for an offer sheet.   What team wouldn't want to add him to their lineup?   I think the Canucks have to be very careful with this player.   I have always contended, right back to draft day, that he was an unique talent and if they took the time to develop him AND he responded to that long path, he would be exactly what a team needs if they have playoff run aspirations.   I still contend a player like Jake is never going to show his full value in the regular season.   This kid was built for playoffs and now that his head seems to have realized all that talent that he was gifted can dominate at NHL level - the potential remains for this guy to become a lock top 6 player that no team wants to face....particularly in a seven game series.

[McBackup]

19 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said:

When did he turn 19?

Sometime before he was no longer referred to as the 18 year old wunderkind.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Bitter Melon

[captainhorvat]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

[Elias Pettersson]

Jake has arrived. A legit top 6 power forward. 
 

Is there anyone who would trade him straight up for William Nylander or Nikolaj Ehlers?  I didn’t think so.
 

You don’t trade a legit top 6 power forward who can dominate the boards in the playoffs and play a heavy two way game over a one way top 6 forward. 

[EternalCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

The only challenge with that is given his current AAV, he is a VERY likely player for an offer sheet.   What team wouldn't want to add him to their lineup?   I think the Canucks have to be very careful with this player.   I have always contended, right back to draft day, that he was an unique talent and if they took the time to develop him AND he responded to that long path, he would be exactly what a team needs if they have playoff run aspirations.   I still contend a player like Jake is never going to show his full value in the regular season.   This kid was built for playoffs and now that his head seems to have realized all that talent that he was gifted can dominate at NHL level - the potential remains for this guy to become a lock top 6 player that no team wants to face....particularly in a seven game series.

I would love to see the Canucks retain Jake but I am curious what will happen next summer.  If Jake keeps up his play and, if the Canucks make the playoffs, proves his value in the playoffs, then who does that displace?  I'm sure fans and management all hoped that Jake would find his game and it's satisfying to see him finally start playing at a level that we had hoped for.  Still, the roster seemed built with some expectation that Jake may not start showing signs of meeting his potential.

 

Will the Canucks let Leivo walk?  Can they move Sutter and/or Baertschi?  What about Eriksson?  What happens to Ferland?  Do the Canucks try to trade Jake for a defender and, if they do, what does that mean for Tanev (UFA) and Stecher (RFA) next summer?  Will the Canucks look to make room for Rafferty?

 

I'm all for the Canucks keeping Jake but, IMHO, it could be a factor that impacts major roster decisions.  This is ultimately a great position for the Canucks to be in however, especially with players like Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden, etc. also in the pipeline.  It's an exciting time.

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I would love to see the Canucks retain Jake but I am curious what will happen next summer.  If Jake keeps up his play and, if the Canucks make the playoffs, proves his value in the playoffs, then who does that displace?  I'm sure fans and management all hoped that Jake would find his game and it's satisfying to see him finally start playing at a level that we had hoped for.  Still, the roster seemed built with some expectation that Jake may not start showing signs of meeting his potential.

 

Will the Canucks let Leivo walk?  Can they move Sutter and/or Baertschi?  What about Eriksson?  What happens to Ferland?  Do the Canucks try to trade Jake for a defender and, if they do, what does that mean for Tanev (UFA) and Stecher (RFA) next summer?  Will the Canucks look to make room for Rafferty?

 

I'm all for the Canucks keeping Jake but, IMHO, it could be a factor that impacts major roster decisions.  This is ultimately a great position for the Canucks to be in however, especially with players like Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden, etc. also in the pipeline.  It's an exciting time.

When it comes right down to it, Jake (even though he’s turning into a really good player) is not one of our core guys; he’s a support player.  If, after this season, JB trades Jake for a good return (picks/prospects) that’s just fine.  The support players will come and go, but we need to keep our elite young core.  

[Rob_Zepp]

7 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

I would love to see the Canucks retain Jake but I am curious what will happen next summer.  If Jake keeps up his play and, if the Canucks make the playoffs, proves his value in the playoffs, then who does that displace?  I'm sure fans and management all hoped that Jake would find his game and it's satisfying to see him finally start playing at a level that we had hoped for.  Still, the roster seemed built with some expectation that Jake may not start showing signs of meeting his potential.

 

Will the Canucks let Leivo walk?  Can they move Sutter and/or Baertschi?  What about Eriksson?  What happens to Ferland?  Do the Canucks try to trade Jake for a defender and, if they do, what does that mean for Tanev (UFA) and Stecher (RFA) next summer?  Will the Canucks look to make room for Rafferty?

 

I'm all for the Canucks keeping Jake but, IMHO, it could be a factor that impacts major roster decisions.  This is ultimately a great position for the Canucks to be in however, especially with players like Podkolzin, Hoglander, Madden, etc. also in the pipeline.  It's an exciting time.

I think with all of this the key question to ask if moving any player, can you replace what they provided?   With Jake, at what currently appears to be his potential ceiling, is a set of skills fewer than 10 to 15 have in the entire league when you factor in his speed.   When you add his age (people seem to forget the guy is just two years older than EP40 and is the same age as Gaudette), he has a pretty unique skill set and projection for number of valued seasons in front of him so IF you are trading that, what do you get back?   The ONE guy that may make the concept of moving Jake IMHO is currently playing Russia and will still be eligible to play in the WJC again next year so pretty risky to move Jake until Podz at least has his training wheels removed.

[250Integra]

About 1200 pages later, Jake is finally looking like a top six forward. Well worth the wait.

[gameburn]

15 hours ago, Junkyard Dog said:

He probably signs a two year bridge because we can't afford any long term deals till after Petey/Hughes are signed in 2021. In 2022 Lou/Loui/Roussel/Beagle are all off so we can sign him to a long deal then.

 

 

As long as Jake is okay with this and everyone is upfront about the money/cap issue, which I suspect they will be. 

 

[gameburn]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

When it comes right down to it, Jake (even though he’s turning into a really good player) is not one of our core guys; he’s a support player.  If, after this season, JB trades Jake for a good return (picks/prospects) that’s just fine.  The support players will come and go, but we need to keep our elite young core.  

At what point do so-called support players become more than that?  I suspect in Jake's case that may have occurred in the St. Louis game or sooner.

 

I think that if he keeps playing like this (more assists than goals, hardly ever taking penalties, playing top line minutes, quarterbacking a second powerplay unit, projecting point totals somewhere between half a point and 3/4ths of a point per game) the team will at least TRY to make him a core player.  Money and the cap issues are the problem, not Jake.  He has to be in that top group now, somewhere after Hughes, Boeser, Pettersson and Horvat, but way ahead of the likes of Miller, Stecher, other vets, and whoever is in Utica or Russia.  He has never had a serious injury, can protect other players at times and KEEPS GETTING BETTER.  He is also a home-town kid who is a fan favorite.  I suspect that he is now on a "not going to be traded anytime soon" list.  Imagine what Montreal would give for this guy, or a contender (Arizona? Boston!!?)

 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 1/25/2020 at 12:38 PM, Rob_Zepp said:

If I were Canucks I would lock up Jake with a bridge sooner than later.   Big risk leaving it to this summer IMHO.

He would seem ripe for an offer sheet! At the 20 plus goals he is headed for, 45 or more points?  Even a bridge deal is $3 mill plus. One of those $4.5 mill x 5 type deals we see a lot of American teams sign young players to, is on call?  Someone could offer $6 mill. The compensation would be a 1st & 3rd.  Jake now, is worth more than that. $6 mill would hamstring us for at least one year?

 

That said! He probably undersigned his value last contract.  Hockey & otherwise? Jake breaking out is a good problem. 

 

Maybe we can't sign another UFA is the more likely cost. But with Jake playing like he is. We do not have to sign more UFA's up front! He seems to know now. What to do when he flies into open space. With and without the puck. Its so fun watching him discover he can make plays! Further, we still have Ferland to unleash.

On 1/27/2020 at 3:28 AM, Alflives said:

Jake impresses me as an athlete that always needs a dangling carrot to chase.  When he catches the carrot (as we’ve seen before) he eats it and doesn’t stop eating.  

OMFW, this is so funny Alf!   Without being about sacrificial cats.

 

The good news!  Carrots takes almost more calories to chew than they provide... Lets think grey hound breaking out?

Old Jake;

 

 

New Jake.

 

 

 

[Rob_Zepp]

There is more to the game than points - particularly for some players who add something different/more to a team's ability to win - but just using goals/assists and points and look at the 2014 draft at about 50 games into this season we see Jake sitting 12th in points which if you want to say "he was 6th overall so is clearly not living up to his slot" then go ahead, but I personally think that misses the mark.   Here are the top 15 2014 draft class with points so far this year.

                                  GP          G        A     PTS       +/-      ATOI           Draft Slot          PTS/60               Current AAV (CAP HIT)     

1 Leon Draisaitl     49           27      48      75        -14       22:28              3                                                     8.5 million                           

2 David Pastrnak   51          37      33      70         +16     19:36             25                                                    6.7 million

3 William Nylander 50        23       22      45          0        18:05               8                     3.0                          7.0 million

4 Brayden Point       46        18       24      42        +14     18:52              79                                                   6.8 million

5 Jakub Vrana          50        23      19       42        +8       14:54              13                                                   3.4 million

6 Sam Reinhart        49        17       24      41         -3       20:28               2                                                     3.7 million

7 Nikolaj Ehlers        51        18       20      38         +3      16:46               9                     2.7                          6.0 million

8 Tony DeAngelo      48        12      25       37         +5      19:06             19                                                    0.9 million

9 Dylan Larkin           51        13      23       36         -16     21:09             15                                                    6.1 million

10 Victor Olofsson   42        16      19       35         -1       18:48            181                                                    0.8 million

11 Nick Schmaltz     51         7        28       35         +5      15:40            20                                                     5.9 million

12 Jake Virtanen      50         14      16      30         +1       12:41             6                      2.8                          1.3 million  

13 Christian Dvorak  51        13       17      30         +7      16:25             58                                                   4.5 million  

14 Kevin Fiala           52          9         19      28         +2      14:33            11                                                    3.0 million    

15 Kasperi Kapanen 50        10        18     28         +2       16:02             22                                                   3.2 million

 

Missing from the top of the draft are No 1 (Ekblad, a D though), No 4 (Bennett), No 5 (Dal Colle), No 7 (Fluery, also a D), No 10 (Richie) No 12 (Perlini), No 14 (Honka, D).

 

This sample year shows in general the crap shoot even for first round picks.   However, for Jake, it shows that no, he is not scoring per his draft slot but a few things are clear though.   In terms of points/60, he is in the top 10 and one could argue if he had first line minutes and first line linemates all season, hard to see his totals not being higher (certainly not Draisaitl or Pastrnak high but perhaps Point/Nylander high....but that is speculation so let's work with actuals....I don't have PTS/60 in my database so crunched approx for three players people liek to compare on CDC for some reason).    Each to their own but from this list, I don't think other than Draisatl and Pastrnak that I would (if the Canucks GM) trade for any other player though would personally give long thought to Larkin and Point.    

 

Anyway, database spat this out so I thought I would share.   Have at 'er.   

[Hairy Kneel]

Jake on the 2nd unit PK last game, exciting to see. When he learns pk then I think he's getting a couple shorties. And letting Bo catch a breather.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Hairy Kneel

[Me_]

When do we declare Virtanen a first line power forward?

[TNucks1]

i'd say ferlands contract for jakes next one seems fair.

[Westcoasting]

19 minutes ago, Me_ said:

When do we declare Virtanen a first line power forward?

Probably the same time we call Boeser a third line player!

[Kanukfanatic]

8 hours ago, Me_ said:

When do we declare Virtanen a first line power forward?

When Jake actually plays on the first line for more than 5 games and gets 50+ points a season?

 

Prior to this year Jake had a high of 25 points.....just a little context for the over the top crowd lol.  I really like Virtanen and hope he can keep it up and demonstrate some consistency.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Kanukfanatic

[Provost]

6 hours ago, Kanukfanatic said:

When Jake actually plays on the first line for more than 5 games and gets 50+ points a season?

 

Prior to this year Jake had a high of 25 points.....just a little context for the over the top crowd lol.  I really like Virtanen and hope he can keep it up and demonstrate some consistency.

Totally agree, we can wait to anoint him as having “arrived” until we see a long sample size, while at the same time enjoying his success and hoping for the best.

 

He has now had a stretch of 25 games which represent the best hockey of his entire career.  That followed the first 25 games of the season where he showed little progression from his previous years.

 

He has also made a couple of remarkable passes recently that he has literally never shown even a flash of being able to do in all of his time in the NHL.  That is a good sign.

 

If he can keep up his production and get a 20+ goal, 40-50 point season... that is a big deal for him and the team.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Provost