[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Edmonton Oilers | February 25, 2021 | 7 p.m. PT | SN

[N4ZZY]

7 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

This will be my last tidbit on the Hughes/Karlsson comparison

 

Quinn this season age 21:

Currently on pace for 7g 65a 72 pts -37 47blks 17hits over 82 games

CF 51.9% FF 50% PDO 96.8  68.1%oZone starts 31.9% dZone starts

 

Erik Karlsson 2011-12 age 21:

81gp 19g 59a 78pts +16 65blks 60hits

CF 55.1% FF 54.% PDO 100.9  57% oZone starts 43% dZone starts

Norris trophy winner.

 

Same age and Karlsson was considerably more defensively responsible than Quinn.

 

Nobody is saying Quinn isn't a huge talent but lets not overstate what he hasn't done yet and compare him to some of the greats. Its not fair to him.

I hope Quinn doesn't become one of those offensive defenseman, but can't really play good defence. 

 

I don't think he will, but he'll have to prove that he will get better defensively, and that he doesn't need a Tanev like player to cover for his defensive lapses. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

This will be my last tidbit on the Hughes/Karlsson comparison

 

Quinn this season age 21:

Currently on pace for 7g 65a 72 pts -37 47blks 17hits over 82 games

CF 51.9% FF 50% PDO 96.8  68.1%oZone starts 31.9% dZone starts

 

Erik Karlsson 2011-12 age 21:

81gp 19g 59a 78pts +16 65blks 60hits

CF 55.1% FF 54.% PDO 100.9  57% oZone starts 43% dZone starts

Norris trophy winner.

 

Same age and Karlsson was considerably more defensively responsible than Quinn.

 

Nobody is saying Quinn isn't a huge talent but lets not overstate what he hasn't done yet and compare him to some of the greats. Its not fair to him.

Fair enough.  He may never be like Karlsson, but I think he will be special.  Let's see what happens over the next 5 years...

[GritGrinder]

4 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I hope Quinn doesn't become one of those offensive defenseman, but can't really play good defence. 

 

I don't think he will, but he'll have to prove that he will get better defensively, and that he doesn't need a Tanev like player to cover for his defensive lapses. 

 

He reminds me of a more offensive Tyson Barrie. They are the exact same size, smooth skating, puck movers but defensive liabilities. Barrie hasn't really developed out of that sort of style so its on Quinn and the coaching staff to develop that in his game.

[Pickly]

1 minute ago, N4ZZY said:

I hope Quinn doesn't become one of those offensive defenseman, but can't really play good defence. 

 

I don't think he will, but he'll have to prove that he will get better defensively, and that he doesn't need a Tanev like player to cover for his defensive lapses. 

 

He’s 5’10, 170 lbs soaking wet. Realistically, Hughes doesn’t have the size and defensive acumen to be a true, stand alone #1 D. That being said, there’s no saying he couldn’t gain weight and develop into that role. I personally don’t see it as those true #1 D like Doughty, Weber, Hedman, Pietrangelo, and prime Duncan Keith are extremely, extremely hard to come by and are arguably the most sought after players to come by maybe outside of a true #1 center. Karlsson in his prime was a fantastic player but won the Norris, along with Subban, strictly based on point totals. Quinn needs a solid defensive partner like Methot was to Karlsson to truly shine. A Chris Tanev type player..

[N4ZZY]

12 minutes ago, GritGrinder said:

He reminds me of a more offensive Tyson Barrie. They are the exact same size, smooth skating, puck movers but defensive liabilities. Barrie hasn't really developed out of that sort of style so its on Quinn and the coaching staff to develop that in his game.

Well. If he became a Barrie, I'm not sure if paying Hughes 9-10 million dollars is worth it if he can't seem to defend relatively well on his own. 

 

[N4ZZY]

9 minutes ago, Pickly said:

He’s 5’10, 170 lbs soaking wet. Realistically, Hughes doesn’t have the size and defensive acumen to be a true, stand alone #1 D. That being said, there’s no saying he couldn’t gain weight and develop into that role. I personally don’t see it as those true #1 D like Doughty, Weber, Hedman, Pietrangelo, and prime Duncan Keith are extremely, extremely hard to come by and are arguably the most sought after players to come by maybe outside of a true #1 center. Karlsson in his prime was a fantastic player but won the Norris, along with Subban, strictly based on point totals. Quinn needs a solid defensive partner like Methot was to Karlsson to truly shine. A Chris Tanev type player..

That kind of defenseman has eluded this franchise since it's beginning. Hughes is the closest we've had to a true number one. 

 

I wish we could've made a run at Pietrangelo - but because Benning turned this team into cap hell, we could not even make an offer. I'd easily pay Pietrangelo 8-9 million a year. 

 

[appleboy]

Rumor is that Jim called every team in the league looking to make a deal for a 25 or under forward. 

Wow.  Wouldn't it have been smarter to make sure to clear enough cap space to resign Tofolli . You know Jimbo, that guy you traded a 2nd round and Madden for. That guy who played 10 games for us. Maybe you should have let Jake walk and signed a cheaper goal tender.    

 

This club needs to be fixed off the ice before the on ice issues are looked at.

[CptCanuck16]

42 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Is he that bad? Who would be better to replace Green at this point? 

 

The systems are not working. Everyone on planet earth recognizes this, except Green.  Furthermore he seems to have a "good enough is good enough" attitude which is not what you want in a coach. A coach should push his players to grow,  and always strive for continuous improvement.  Guys like Scotty Bowman were never satisfied. When he had 3 Cups he wanted 4 etc. Green appears to lack that drive and it shows in his coaching style. He might be a nice guy and fun to have a beer with but that doesn't make him a good coach. The systemic issues that plague the team have been here for the last 4 seasons under Green despite all the personell changes on the ice. Greens had ample time to address them but after 4 long years I'm not convinced that he's even recognized them yet. 

 

I would like to see Green replaced by a veteran NHL coach who has proven he knows what he is doing  by way of a winning record  in his NHL coaching career.  An NHL caliber coach with a winning track record. That is all. 

[cuporbust]

47 minutes ago, Pickly said:

He’s 5’10, 170 lbs soaking wet. Realistically, Hughes doesn’t have the size and defensive acumen to be a true, stand alone #1 D. That being said, there’s no saying he couldn’t gain weight and develop into that role. I personally don’t see it as those true #1 D like Doughty, Weber, Hedman, Pietrangelo, and prime Duncan Keith are extremely, extremely hard to come by and are arguably the most sought after players to come by maybe outside of a true #1 center. Karlsson in his prime was a fantastic player but won the Norris, along with Subban, strictly based on point totals. Quinn needs a solid defensive partner like Methot was to Karlsson to truly shine. A Chris Tanev type player..

Well, this draft year is the year to find him. 4 of the top 5 are d men. The top two are 6'6 214, and 6'4 198 respectively. 

[PhillipBlunt]

This year is a wash.
 

Next year, they pull the same $&!#, something has to change. 

 

The very least management could do is purge Greens assistants. 

[4petesake]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

This year is a wash.
 

Next year, they pull the same $&!#, something has to change. 

 

The very least management could do is purge Greens assistants. 

Totally agree with this. I have stood by Benning/Green long enough. If they don’t see (minimally) that the aspects of the game that the assistants are responsible for are failing miserably then they are part of the problem. If you don’t amputate a gangrenous toe everything else starts to stink.

[DIBdaQUIB]

gangrenous as in caused by gang green

[Dr. Crossbar]

.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Dr. Crossbar
.

[Angry Goose]

2 hours ago, CptCanuck16 said:

The systems are not working. Everyone on planet earth recognizes this, except Green.  Furthermore he seems to have a "good enough is good enough" attitude which is not what you want in a coach. A coach should push his players to grow,  and always strive for continuous improvement.  Guys like Scotty Bowman were never satisfied. When he had 3 Cups he wanted 4 etc. Green appears to lack that drive and it shows in his coaching style. 

First, many former players, and especially a guy like Bieksa have all said Green is not a problem.

 

 

Second, strongly disagree that Green doesn't push his players, accepts status quo.  This type of statement is totally in left field.  Keep in mind the guy had to grind his ass off and adapt to become a long time NHL player.  The guy knows what it takes to succeed and if u don't think he imparts that experience/wisdom when needed....

[spook007]

8 hours ago, GritGrinder said:

Henrik 1C (reigning Hart and Art Ross winner)

Kesler 2C (Selke winner)

Ehrhoff 1D

Burrows and Daniel (Art Ross and Pearson winner) 30 goal wingers

plus a Vezina caliber goalie.

 

You can nitpick on Ehrhoff but he was a 50pt, 23min dman who got Norris and All-Star votes. Thats about as legit a #1 D than most teams had in 2010 and 2011.

Totally agree that the 2011 had as much talent on it. And it had heart as well.
But also think it only fair to also state the age of the players at that stage? 
Most of them were around 30 years of age in 2011 (bar Kesler, who was 26). 
The core players on this team are still young or fairly young. Would it be wrong to suggest that players like Petey, Quinn and to a certain extend even Brock are still developing as players. Our most experienced core player is Bo at 25 years of age. Miller is 26 I believe and both considered veterans. Pearson is the veteran in the top 6. 
This season has been shocking, no doubt about it, but a fair few posters here believed our real window would be at least 2-3 years away at the end of last season. 
I’m thinking of how we all used to laugh at Oilers with all their top picks, and they couldn’t make a team out of it. Even with McD and Draisatl etc... 

It takes time for young players to settle in the league. And age wise probably longer for the players out of Uni teams. 
Will players like Hughes be a true no 1? Who knows, offensively no doubt, defensively? ( I wanted Bouchard, but I have very little knowledge about the kids being drafted. I wanted size, with a shot on the backend, and still does), but I think to say, Hughes can’t defend, so he won’t be a no 1, is very premature, however no doubt he could do with a proper defensive side kick. 
Had money been available, instead of sitting on busses, it could have helped, however the decks will be cleared in 2 years, and at that stage Pettersson, Brock, Bo and Hughes (Maybe Miller) will hopefully be able to lead the team. 
Think its unfair to set the ceiling for this young core so early in their careers ( either way). 

Edited February 27, 2021 by spook007

[spook007]

11 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said:

Well then, about time we hired someone to teach them how.

Like age faster?

[GritGrinder]

2 hours ago, spook007 said:

Totally agree that the 2011 had as much talent on it. And it had heart as well.
But also think it only fair to also state the age of the players at that stage? 
Most of them were around 30 years of age in 2011 (bar Kesler, who was 26). 
The core players on this team are still young or fairly young. Would it be wrong to suggest that players like Petey, Quinn and to a certain extend even Brock are still developing as players. Our most experienced core player is Bo at 25 years of age. Miller is 26 I believe and both considered veterans. Pearson is the veteran in the top 6. 
This season has been shocking, no doubt about it, but a fair few posters here believed our real window would be at least 2-3 years away at the end of last season. 
I’m thinking of how we all used to laugh at Oilers with all their top picks, and they couldn’t make a team out of it. Even with McD and Draisatl etc... 

It takes time for young players to settle in the league. And age wise probably longer for the players out of Uni teams. 
Will players like Hughes be a true no 1? Who knows, offensively no doubt, defensively? ( I wanted Bouchard, but I have very little knowledge about the kids being drafted. I wanted size, with a shot on the backend, and still does), but I think to say, Hughes can’t defend, so he won’t be a no 1, is very premature, however no doubt he could do with a proper defensive side kick. 
Had money been available, instead of sitting on busses, it could have helped, however the decks will be cleared in 2 years, and at that stage Pettersson, Brock, Bo and Hughes (Maybe Miller) will hopefully be able to lead the team. 
Think its unfair to set the ceiling for this young core so early in their careers ( either way). 

The Canucks in the 6 seasons prior to the 2011 Cup run the worst record they had was 39-33-10 for 88pts. That team was never anywhere near the bottom of the league like the current Canucks have been in recent years. To look at the current team, where most people want half the team gone, and say “they are 2-3 years away” is wishful thinking. Maybe if the current team can string together 4-5 winning seasons and making the playoffs a few times then you can say they are 2-3 years away from Cup contention. I doubt people were looking at the 2004 Canucks and saying “they are 2-3 years away”, but they were saying it in 2009. Honestly the current Canucks were 6-9 years away from Cup contention when EP was a rookie. 2-3 years of making the playoffs or getting close, 2-3 years of winning a round or 2 and 2-3 years of hopefully Cup runs. They are half way through year 3 of that 6-9 year window. The bubble artificially made it seem like they were further along but I still see 4-7 years before the current team makes the playoffs consistently and maybe goes on a Cup run.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by GritGrinder

[Silent Man]

12 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

So, team have lost 10 out of the last 12, and team has no practice two days in a row? And no morning skate on the game day on Thursday? Obviously, our system is so perfect, that team does need to work on it anymore?

[canuck2288]

6 minutes ago, Silent Man said:

So, team have lost 10 out of the last 12, and team has no practice two days in a row? And no morning skate on the game day on Thursday? Obviously, our system is so perfect, that team does need to work on it anymore?

According to Green the team is “trending” in the direction 

 

they just basically took the entire month off may as well fully take it off

 

country club loser culture lives in 

 

 

 

[GritGrinder]

18 minutes ago, Silent Man said:

So, team have lost 10 out of the last 12, and team has no practice two days in a row? And no morning skate on the game day on Thursday? Obviously, our system is so perfect, that team does need to work on it anymore?

Don’t worry, all the people that are saying “all they need is more practice time to gel” will immediately pivot to the “team is fatigued” narrative that has been making the rounds the last couple of days.