Elias Pettersson | Quinn Hughes - Contract Discussion Thread

[TFerguson]

3 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

Parade to the airport?!?

[bishopshodan]

Great deals and term for two great players.

 

Great GM.

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

he'd better they could probably sell tickets for it.

[PuckFather]

Are CDC servers ready for this? 

[kloubek]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

i'm guessing 3 years from now if EP continues to grow people are going to be bashing him to oblivion again if he doesn't take a contract for 8mil instead of 10 or 11 

I actually don't think that will happen. I believe there's somewhere between 30-35 players in the NHL right now making 9m or more, and a few recently signed contracts indicate it's only getting worse. In 3 years time, the cap should be up another 3+ million, and chances are that players of Petey's calibre are signing for double digits regularly. With 3 more years experience, he will be improved and WILL get paid 10+ million, because that's what he will be worth, given the landscape. We are generally going to be ok with this, because not only is it the norm, but with contracts coming off the books (savvy timing by Benning), and the cap going up, we will be able to afford it. 

[VegasCanuck]

21 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

I think they should have to....lol

 

[86Viking]

3 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I think they should have to....lol

 

They sure should! If EP gets close to 8m I will be a bit surprised with such a short term, if QH gets under 8m for 6yrs I think that is decent so combined I guess it works for us. Be interesting to see what happens with Boeser and if we try to lock him up earlier and not wait till camp next year. Hopefully the cap goes up a bit more before Bo and JT need contracts, Hog too I suppose

[Me_]

2 hours ago, ABNucksfan said:

When did Wayne sign his last contract? When did the Sedins? Has your wage risen as much from when the Sedins signed to today? Didn’t think so… kids are entitled today. 

Has to do with the league’s economics; not kid greed.

 

When the Sedins first played, there were 28 teams. Now there are 32.

[DrJockitch]

14 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

I think they should have to....lol

 

Extra lap for every million you signed for. 

[Smashian Kassian]

3 hours ago, FlyLow_ said:

Demers can kick rocks, he's openly stated he didn't want to play in Vancouver and denied a trade here before.

 

Meh. Times change, if he can help us now then let it be. 

[VegasCanuck]

About 2 weeks ago, I did a post on what I thought the math for this team would be, 3 years out, based on Pettersson signing a 3 year, 7.5 million bridge and Hughes on a 3 year, 6.5 million bridge.

 

I'm reposting this, updated for the fact that Hughes now signing for 6 years at reported 7.75 million, gives us much more cost certainty for the 2024/25 season. This is what I think our primary players and cap space will look like.

 

I'm still working off the NHL's projection that cap will rise 1 million per for the next few years, meaning that we'll have 84.5 million to play with in that season.

 

Forwards:

Pettersson - 10.5 million Per

Boeser - 8 million per (likely 8 years)

Horvat 7 million per (likely 8 years)

Miller or Miller replacement 5 million per I'm assuming that he will eventually be pushed out by younger / cheaper player. Maybe Klimovich??

Garland 4.95 million per

Dickinson 3 million per or similar player. He may be squeezed out by one of our upcoming by then at a lower cap hit.

Motte 2.5 million - or similar player, I'm assuming that he will eventually be squeezed out by younger guys playing similar game

Hoglander 5 million per - I'm assuming a bridge deal on this one, same as Pettersson and Hughes

Podkolzin - 5 million per - I'm projecting his 2nd contract and assuming that it will likely be a bridge deal

Total for Top 9 Forwards, 50.95 million

 

Defense:

OEL 7.26 million

Hughes 7.75 million

Rathbone 3.0 million - will sign a bridge deal, has no arbitration rights and can't get an offer sheet

Juolevi 2.5 million

Poolman I think will eventually be traded and replaced at similar cap hit, possibly to make room for Woo

 

Total top 4 Defense: 20.51

 

Demko - 5 million - I'm assuming that we will carry one primary and a sub 1 million backup moving forward. Unless DiPietro proves he's better than Demko, DiPietro will eventually be moved for picks or prospects. I think we ride Demko at least till the end of his current contract.

 

Total 76.46 projected 2024/25 cap hit!

 

That leaves 8.04 million to round out the roster, not accounting for LTIR, which happens every year, or other changes.

This is just my estimate, there will be trades and moves. I don't think Myers will be here till the end of his contract and it's very likely someone on my forward and defense projections will be moved to spread out cap space, the same as all competitive teams do. Look what has happened in Tampa the last few years on moving guys out to make room.

 

I should actually save this somewhere and look back in 3 years and see how close I was.

 

As before, go ahead and rip it to shreds

[Rob_Zepp]

10 hours ago, Petey40 said:

I’m curious is JP is involved or not, I know Pat Brisson represents both of them but JP also works at that same agency and has Tyler Myers as a client (he also represented Player Name). So I wonder if he’s got any voice in these negotiations or if that’s even allowed.. 

Think of it as lawyers with clients in a big law firm.....really strict rules about what you can and cannot share.

[Coconuts]

44 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

He absolutely should, everyone else had to do it. They make get millions more than other guys, but they shouldn't get special treatment.

[derr12]

8 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

About 2 weeks ago, I did a post on what I thought the math for this team would be, 3 years out, based on Pettersson signing a 3 year, 7.5 million bridge and Hughes on a 3 year, 6.5 million bridge.

 

I'm reposting this, updated for the fact that Hughes now signing for 6 years at reported 7.75 million, gives us much more cost certainty for the 2024/25 season. This is what I think our primary players and cap space will look like.

 

I'm still working off the NHL's projection that cap will rise 1 million per for the next few years, meaning that we'll have 84.5 million to play with in that season.

 

Forwards:

Pettersson - 10.5 million Per

Boeser - 8 million per (likely 8 years)

Horvat 7 million per (likely 8 years)

Miller or Miller replacement 5 million per I'm assuming that he will eventually be pushed out by younger / cheaper player. Maybe Klimovich??

Garland 4.95 million per

Dickinson 3 million per or similar player. He may be squeezed out by one of our upcoming by then at a lower cap hit.

Motte 2.5 million - or similar player, I'm assuming that he will eventually be squeezed out by younger guys playing similar game

Hoglander 5 million per - I'm assuming a bridge deal on this one, same as Pettersson and Hughes

Podkolzin - 5 million per - I'm projecting his 2nd contract and assuming that it will likely be a bridge deal

Total for Top 9 Forwards, 50.95 million

 

Defense:

OEL 7.26 million

Hughes 7.75 million

Rathbone 3.0 million - will sign a bridge deal, has no arbitration rights and can't get an offer sheet

Juolevi 2.5 million

Poolman I think will eventually be traded and replaced at similar cap hit, possibly to make room for Woo

 

Total top 4 Defense: 20.51

 

Demko - 5 million - I'm assuming that we will carry one primary and a sub 1 million backup moving forward. Unless DiPietro proves he's better than Demko, DiPietro will eventually be moved for picks or prospects. I think we ride Demko at least till the end of his current contract.

 

Total 76.46 projected 2024/25 cap hit!

 

That leaves 8.04 million to round out the roster, not accounting for LTIR, which happens every year, or other changes.

This is just my estimate, there will be trades and moves. I don't think Myers will be here till the end of his contract and it's very likely someone on my forward and defense projections will be moved to spread out cap space, the same as all competitive teams do. Look what has happened in Tampa the last few years on moving guys out to make room.

 

I should actually save this somewhere and look back in 3 years and see how close I was.

 

As before, go ahead and rip it to shreds

I only disagree with the joulevi dollar figure. Unless he turns it around he’s a replacement level player. He should be paid as one. 
 

rathbone looks like he may project to a top4 D, might command a little more.

Edited October 1, 2021 by derr12

[Bure_Pavel]

The signings a little meh for me, the bridge sets up Petey to get paid in the 11 million range in three years and the Hughes contract brings him to UFA at the age of 27 where he might potentially leave to play with his other two brothers. 

 

Benning needed to find a way to lock up Petey in the 7-8 year range for around 9.5 mil and sign Hughes to a 3 year bridge for about 6.5 mil. He did not get it done. Our cup window is likely set at 6 years from today, hopefully we can get the job done in that time.    

[204CanucksFan]

51 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

He made Boeser do it in his first practice after resigning iirc.

[BCNate]

2 minutes ago, 204CanucksFan said:

He made Boeser do it in his first practice after resigning iirc.

I think it would be a good team building exercise.  All the guys would be giving them a ton of S***, then everyone moves on.

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The signings a little meh for me, the bridge sets up Petey to get paid in the 11 million range in three years and the Hughes contract brings him to UFA at the age of 27 where he might potentially leave to play with his other two brothers. 

 

Benning needed to find a way to lock up Petey in the 7-8 year range for around 9.5 mil and sign Hughes to a 3 year bridge for about 6.5 mil. He did not get it done. Our cup window is likely set at 6 years from today, hopefully we can get the job done in that time.    

If Pettersson is an 11 million dollar valued player in 3 years. We are laughing and potentially with a Cup in that time frame. At least serious playoff pushes. We will find the room to fit him in.

 

If there is doubt about Hughes leaving at the end of his contract, we will look to trade him for a tidy sum with about 2 years left in his contract. Rathbone's play could even expedite this as well.

 

While I'd prefer to have had Petey long term and Quinn on a short term as well, this is hardly a crippling situation any way you really look at it. As other posters have brought up, each of their contracts expire as certain players with higher cap hits are off the books to allow us to give them raises if need be. As long as we can keep drafting well and being able to fill the lineup with solid ELCs and cheaper depth players, we should be able to sustain this for much longer than the 6 years you're projecting.

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

Well let's compare apples to apples here:

 

The Sedins each signed 3 year bridge deals with an AAV of $3.575 million which at that time accounted for 8.13% of the cap. Pettersson is speculated to sign a 3 year bridge of $7.7 million in the very near future which accounts for 9.45% of the current salary cap. Those are two very comparable contracts, percentage wise at least, they are each taking up an almost identical sized portion of the pie, it's in no way Pettersson's fault that the pie has become so much larger at this point.

 

At the time the Sedins signed, Henrik had put up 0.553 P/GP and Daniel had 0.559 P/GP. Pettersson at the time of his signing is at 0.927 P/GP. Pettersson has already won the Calder Trophy and has received votes for the Lady Byng twice as well as votes for the Hart, at this point in the careers for the Sedins, Daniel had finished 8th for the Calder as his only award votes and Henrik was 55th for the Selke in one season.

 

The simple fact is that even though the numbers are larger, the percentage of the cap is nearly equivalent which has to be seen as a win because Pettersson, at this point in his career, has achieved far more than the Sedins.

 

And on a side note: You clearly need a stronger union representing you becuase my wage increases 2-3% annually.

 

 

I think this is a worthy comparison except I think you have your Sedin stats wrong. 

In 2005-2006, Henrik made 1.25m and put up 75 pts in 82 games. 

That's 0.91 pts / game. Very much current Petterson numbers except he was healthier and played the entire season. 

He then signed 3.575 for 2006-2007 season on a 44m cap which is 8.13% of cap. 

Petterson has yet never played a full season due to injury but has put up Sedin like numbers at their respective career timelines so this is actually a really good comparable. 

If he signs for 7.7 m as rumoured on a 3 year deal, he is taking 9.45% of cap. space. That 1.32% doesn't seem like a big deal but it's actually  a 1.08m player in today's cap world. 

 

Here is the kicker, the difference isn't actually 1.32% though. It's 2.64% as there are 2 Sedins who both signed for 1.32% less. 

This is now a 2.16m player that the Canucks could have signed this season. 

That could be the difference bettwen a Hamonic and an Alex Goligoski. 

 

 

 

 

[204CanucksFan]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

I think this is a worthy comparison except I think you have your Sedin stats wrong. 

In 2005-2006, Henrik made 1.25m and put up 75 pts in 82 games. 

That's 0.91 pts / game. Very much current Petterson numbers except he was healthier and played the entire season. 

He then signed 3.575 for 2006-2007 season on a 44m cap which is 8.13% of cap. 

Petterson has yet never played a full season due to injury but has put up Sedin like numbers at their respective career timelines so this is actually a really good comparable. 

If he signs for 7.7 m as rumoured on a 3 year deal, he is taking 9.45% of cap. space. That 1.32% doesn't seem like a big deal but it's actually  a 1.08m player in today's cap world. 

 

Here is the kicker, the difference isn't actually 1.32% though. It's 2.64% as there are 2 Sedins who both signed for 1.32% less. 

This is now a 2.16m player that the Canucks could have signed this season. 

That could be the difference bettwen a Hamonic and an Alex Goligoski. 

 

 

 

 

Yes but I am comparing the lead up to the signing of 3 year bridges for all 3 respectively, Daniel and Henrik were individuals after all. And yes the Sedins had put up that 0.91 p/gp in the 1 season before they signed a contract to take up their 8.13% of the cap each, whereas Pettersson has put up numbers at or close to that for the entire 3 seasons he has played in the NHL. 

 

And, again, I'm getting really tired of having to point this out time and time again on here, Pettersson did miss 11 games in his rookie season, most of which were due to an illegal choke slam to the ice that would of made The Undertaker proud and then in his 3rd season he missed significant time due to his wrist injury but in his 2nd season Pettersson missed 1 GAME due to illness, no injuries of any kind. It's not his fault the 2019-20 season was cut short due to Covid any more than it's the Sedins fault the 2012-13 season was only 48 games due to a lockout.